Current Events

TOPICS:

Previous

PAGE: 

1 ... 

422 | 423 | 424

 ... 484

Next

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

DEC 02, 2003 09:44 PM

Some recent additions made by the Library of Congress to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act appear to add an exemption making the emulation of obsolete and unavailable hardware legal:

(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

My question is: does this merely apply to the hardware itself, or does it also open up the games?

For example, under this exemption, is it legal to distribute game ROMs for an obsolete and no longer manufactured system?

Sasquatch012

Sasquatch012

Northfield, OH
October 2003

DEC 02, 2003 09:53 PM

it says video games right in the first line so im assuming YEs it covers the games as well....which is good.....i think emulation for the older games is great....i can understand them getting upset about someone making a PS2 emulator now.....but..to get all pissy about some guy downloading the original mega man rom is just out and out stupid......if it bugs you so much make the gahdamn game avaliable on the next gen hardware

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

DEC 02, 2003 10:48 PM

Sasquatch012 said:
it says video games right in the first line so im assuming YEs it covers the games as well....which is good.....i think emulation for the older games is great....i can understand them getting upset about someone making a PS2 emulator now.....but..to get all pissy about some guy downloading the original mega man rom is just out and out stupid......if it bugs you so much make the gahdamn game avaliable on the next gen hardware



My thoughts exactly. Well, my thoughts plus lots of ........ tongue

Muzencab

Muzencab

Federal Way, WA
November 2003

DEC 02, 2003 11:31 PM

Keith said:
Some recent additions made by the Library of Congress to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act appear to add an exemption making the emulation of obsolete and unavailable hardware legal:

(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.

My question is: does this merely apply to the hardware itself, or does it also open up the games?

For example, under this exemption, is it legal to distribute game ROMs for an obsolete and no longer manufactured system?



I had around 800 nes, snes, ps1, genisis, and turbographix16 games at one time. they were about 80% like the o.g. games.


eeek

Jeff_Fries

Jeff_Fries

Humptulips, WA
September 2003

DEC 02, 2003 11:48 PM

About damn time. Though for the "games are art" crowd it begs the question if this undermines the goal of making it so games are protected by the same copyright laws that keep books and music protected for practically forever. Or does it? I guess I'm asking.

I am torn between the GAA crowd and my fascination with John Carmack

usagi_obake

usagi_obake

Keene, NH
July 2002

DEC 03, 2003 02:48 AM

Jeff_Fries said:
About damn time. Though for the "games are art" crowd it begs the question if this undermines the goal of making it so games are protected by the same copyright laws that keep books and music protected for practically forever. Or does it? I guess I'm asking.

I am torn between the GAA crowd and my fascination with John Carmack



Well I guess an argument that could be made is that text and audio can trivially be transferred from one "platform" to another; not so for obscure hardware. If it weren't for the efforts of people like the MAME team, a lot of this IP would be relegated to the digital dustbin... because aside from a few "best of" titles, it wouldn't be financially viable to pay people to do what the MAME team does. So by protecting the emu communities' interests we're keeping this stuff around for posterity.

BTW congrats on your 666th post. [edit: whoops it says 668, my eyesight is going]

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by usagi_obake]

williamj

williamj

Ooltewah, TN
June 2003

DEC 03, 2003 07:52 AM

it sounds legal to me. last time i checked they quit making the atari and nes so i guess its cool to play them another way smile god i cant wait to get my mame machine built biggrin

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by williamj]

elenchos

elenchos

USA
November 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:00 AM

If it is legal to distribute them, then they would become "reasonably available in the commercial marketplace". What could be a more reasonable price than free download?

But once they're reasonably available, then the exemption no longer applies, so they would be illegal.

Clearly this situation is a Catch 22. I recommend getting a cat instead.

RumpusParable

RumpusParable

Copperas Cove, TX
April 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:43 AM

so my Atari emulator is now okey-dokey?

UnnecessaryZ

unnecessaryz

Astoria, NY
July 2003

DEC 03, 2003 09:05 AM

Maybe now I can finally get a playable version of Castlevania 3.

WaTed

WaTed

United Kingdom
September 2002

DEC 03, 2003 10:11 AM

Keith said:
(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or **is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.**



I'd say that the last part of the paragraph which I've marked rules out systems readily available from 2nd hand games shops and via eBay...I'd say anything from NES to present day is not obsolete under the wording of that act therefore the rights to the games should still be exercised by their owners.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by WaTed]

Eva2

Eva2

SUICIDEGIRL

Pennsylvania, USA

DEC 03, 2003 10:20 AM

elenchos said:
If it is legal to distribute them, then they would become "reasonably available in the commercial marketplace". What could be a more reasonable price than free download?

But once they're reasonably available, then the exemption no longer applies, so they would be illegal.

Clearly this situation is a Catch 22. I recommend getting a cat instead.



Shush. Commercial marketplace suggests trade in currency for acquisition of a desired good. If it's free, it's outside the commercial marketplace, thus, it's not a catch 22.
Please don't hurt yourself.

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

DEC 03, 2003 10:43 AM

WaTed said:

Keith said:
(3) Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or **is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.**



I'd say that the last part of the paragraph which I've marked rules out systems readily available from 2nd hand games shops and via eBay...I'd say anything from NES to present day is not obsolete under the wording of that act therefore the rights to the games should still be exercised by their owners.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by WaTed]



But it says "is no longer manufactured **or** is no longer reasonably available". I take that to mean "if one of these two conditions is met..."

mindmeld23

mindmeld23

Beverly Hills, CA
September 2002

DEC 03, 2003 02:24 PM

videogames want to be free for me!

WaTed

WaTed

United Kingdom
September 2002

DEC 03, 2003 04:20 PM

Keith said:
But it says "is no longer manufactured **or** is no longer reasonably available". I take that to mean "if one of these two conditions is met..."



Indeed, but you can hardly say that a platform is obsolete if it is actually currently manufactured yet not available in 'the commercial marketplace' (when one of the 2 conditions is again met) as the US legislators may determine that to mean 'the US commercial marketplace' and then via this interpretation the Japanese distributors of pre-release and/or obscure/home territory consoles would go completely insane at people stealing their intellectual property and being told it was OK to do so. The use of 'or' should obviously mean that only one condition is required to be met, but in this instance I'd say that it has to be a case of if one condition is not true (for instance NESs and other retro systems ARE still reasonably available in the commercial marketplace) you'd have a hard time defending copyright theft of the games for those systems, even if the legislation supposedly allowing it was badly worded...

Dopalganger

Dopalganger

Drury, MA
January 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:13 PM

what pisses me off even more than emulated games being "illegal" is the fact that companies are hesitant to release multiple classic games on one disc for current platforms. Namco offers its entire classic catalog for PS2 and more companies should follow their lead. mad

elenchos

elenchos

USA
November 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:56 PM

Eva said:

Shush. Commercial marketplace suggests trade in currency for acquisition of a desired good. If it's free, it's outside the commercial marketplace, thus, it's not a catch 22.
Please don't hurt yourself.



Unless anybody anywhere charged anything for it.

Once one turns pro, the jig us up for all -- an ironic reversal of the usual way of things. So it's a birthday party for everybody until that black day, then the whole scheme collapses in a swirl of self-referential paradoxes. Nature abhors something for nothing.

You don't really hate cats so, do you?