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12/5/03

Reagan On the Dime

12/5/03

Make Your Own Dubya Background

12/5/03

One-year expulsion for having Advil at school [2]

12/5/03

Ohio Police Beating Death [11]

12/5/03

Ecstasy Retraction

12/5/03

Saddam Hussein's last weapons deal

12/5/03

What does "Liberal" mean to you? [3]

12/5/03

toys for tots = guns for idiot

12/5/03

DD's Unconventional Political Insight

12/5/03

"One in three women over 45....

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12/4/03

Gulf War I POWs pay tab for Gulf War II

12/4/03

Battleground God

12/4/03

12/4/03

islam practiced in CA?

12/4/03

an eye for an eye.

12/4/03

Dont buy an ipod or you will become a suka!! [2]

12/4/03

wear a helmet when you shop

12/4/03

There is a gun battle going on outside my window.. [2]

12/4/03

Police Brutality

It_Thing_Hard_On

12/3/03

liberal republicans? [2]

12/3/03

Matt Gonzalez is HOT!

12/3/03

Late-term abortions of 'deformed' babies. [3]

12/3/03

The Genius of Arnold Schwarzenneger [3]

12/3/03

Classic Game Emulation Made Legal?

12/3/03

12/3/03

Girlfriend bites boyfriend's tongue off

12/3/03

Mista Jackson...Martha's cellmate?!?

12/3/03

Boy punished for talking about gay mom [2]

12/3/03

Favorite Celebrity Mugshot?

12/3/03

A Step Closer to the Matrix? [2]

12/3/03

microbiologists dropping like flies

12/3/03

KILLER ROBATS!!!!!

12/3/03

graffiti: art or vandalism?

12/3/03

Religion of Peace strikes again [3]

12/3/03

Important topic

12/3/03

presidential candidate without pants?

12/2/03

NAFTA and the Recession [2]

12/2/03

George Bush's Variety Show of Armageddon.

12/2/03

Wow, Bill ain't so bad afterall

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Late-term abortions of 'deformed' babies.

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Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of

March 2003

DEC 03, 2003 06:10 PM

Nevermind...it's not worth it

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by Max16Characters]

Allister

Chico, CA

September 2003

DEC 03, 2003 06:30 PM

Max16Characters said:
Nevermind...it's not worth it

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by Max16Characters]

I'm sorry that you chose to withdraw; I don't think anyone alluded that your points were irrelevant. You were simply inundated by opposing opinions. You had great points to make, and put them across nicely. This wasn't a pissing contest : just stand your ground, because when you say 'I'm out', I personally take it to mean that you're telling all of us that you feel like you lost.

Nobody's going to win this debate. Ever. You already know that.

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

DEC 03, 2003 06:46 PM

Max16Characters said:
In month 8, were my girlfriend to get the jitters and decide she didn't want the foetus/child/whatever-you-want-to-call-it and then got an abortion, would she be in the right in your opinion? Would it be ok even though there's nothing wrong with the foetus and no danger is posed due to the impending birth? She just doesn't want even if i'd take it from her and raise it as my own...would it still be ok for her to abort?

Yes, yes and yes. I may not have made the same decision as she did, but it's her decision nonetheless.

Do i have any say whatsoever in what happens? Half the genetic material belongs to me but it's just not inside my body.

You have every right to express your feelings to her but in the end, it's her body and her choice.

were you pregnant and to the point where you felt the baby swimming around in your body and kicking and all that stuff, could you/would you still abort it?

Yes. I don't think a fetus has rights. I'm perfectly willing to admit it is a life, I just don't think it has rights, and certainly not ones that are more important than that of a grown, born woman. Born people have rights, however. And yes, I would still abort it, if I didn't want it.

And you have every right to withdraw from this debate, but I think that's a pretty ridiculous decision. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean it's not an important debate. You can't give up just because you aren't "winning"

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by Morgan]

RubberSoul

Los Angeles, CA

February 2003

DEC 03, 2003 07:16 PM

It's a very straight-forward issue. If the baby can sustain it's life outside the mother's womb, it's "person". If it can't, it's a foetus and the mother ought to be able to abort it anytime she wants to. Done deal.

Next issue.

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

DEC 03, 2003 07:23 PM

AND I agree with souljacker!

This is an amazing thread of weirdness!

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of

March 2003

DEC 03, 2003 07:43 PM

Allister said:

Helter said:

Max16Characters said:
Well if someone doesn't want the developing foetus within them to come to term, they have around 6 months to decide. That's more than enough time in my book.

Except "your book" shouldn't have anything to do with what she can do with *her body*.
If she wants the parasitic lump of cells that's growing inside her and feeding off of her removed, she should be able to get that done. If you don't like the idea of a late term abortion, don't get one, and convince your friends to not get them either. Leave other people's rights alone though.

Fucking word, Helter. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Ever found it hilariously funny how the most rabid pro-lifers are always : 1) old holier-than-thou, self-righteous, male fucks who are so sexist it makes your head spin, and 2) Near-illiterate fanatical religious nuts?

I'm none of those thank you very much. Are you implying that i am?

tarbaby

I'm lost

April 2003

DEC 03, 2003 07:50 PM

Allister said:
Ever found it hilariously funny how the most rabid pro-lifers are always : 1) old holier-than-thou, self-righteous, male fucks who are so sexist it makes your head spin, and 2) Near-illiterate fanatical religious nuts?

I'm none of those things. I find it funny that because i have a varying opinion i'm called names. I guess it's because i'm not immature.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by ava]

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of

March 2003

DEC 03, 2003 07:58 PM

Morgan said:

Max16Characters said:
In month 8, were my girlfriend to get the jitters and decide she didn't want the foetus/child/whatever-you-want-to-call-it and then got an abortion, would she be in the right in your opinion? Would it be ok even though there's nothing wrong with the foetus and no danger is posed due to the impending birth? She just doesn't want even if i'd take it from her and raise it as my own...would it still be ok for her to abort?

Yes, yes and yes. I may not have made the same decision as she did, but it's her decision nonetheless.

Do i have any say whatsoever in what happens? Half the genetic material belongs to me but it's just not inside my body.

You have every right to express your feelings to her but in the end, it's her body and her choice.

were you pregnant and to the point where you felt the baby swimming around in your body and kicking and all that stuff, could you/would you still abort it?

Yes. I don't think a fetus has rights. I'm perfectly willing to admit it is a life, I just don't think it has rights, and certainly not ones that are more important than that of a grown, born woman. Born people have rights, however. And yes, I would still abort it, if I didn't want it.

And you have every right to withdraw from this debate, but I think that's a pretty ridiculous decision. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean it's not an important debate. You can't give up just because you aren't "winning"

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by Morgan]

Clearly we'll never agree or even come halfway on this issue...

And yes, it was bad of me to "quit" this debate but i decided i would rather leave than say something i would regret (which i was well on the way towards).

However, if you admit that something is a life and it's human, why wouldn't it have rights past a certain point while in the womb? Why does exposure to open air constitute a life with human rights as opposed to something disposable until that point?

Morgan

SUICIDEGIRL

Illinois, USA

DEC 03, 2003 08:07 PM

Because I don't believe that unborn babies have human rights that are more important than the rights of the born mother. That's how I draw my line, born vs. unborn. Born people have rights, and in my mind, unborn people do not. Unborn people are unable to sustain themselves without a womb, and they are in the womb of someone else. Until they are sustaining life outside of the womb, to me they are just potential, not beings with rights.

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of

March 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:13 PM

So what do you think of the undead vs. dead debate? Who has rights there?

tarbaby

I'm lost

April 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:19 PM

Max16Characters said:
So what do you think of the undead vs. dead debate? Who has rights there?

oh please. it's all about the zombies.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by ava]

skryche

New York, NY

January 2003

DEC 03, 2003 08:27 PM

Allister said:
I'm sorry that you chose to withdraw; I don't think anyone alluded that your points were irrelevant. You were simply inundated by opposing opinions.

You kind of made it a pissing contest by saying he was sexist and/or illiterate.

Allister

Chico, CA

September 2003

DEC 03, 2003 09:23 PM

mindmeld 23 said :

hahaha all these MALES in the world coming up with their abortion opinions.

"i think late term blah blah should be discouraged"

"why i am pro life/choice " " think of the babies "

"But i also think that with the choice comes the responsibility and consequences of that choice" .

etc etc

here's one for all the boys and stooopid politicians: you really don't have an opinion that matters on this subject since you can't be impregnated.

grok----> the entire pro-life/choice debate is just a battle over just how much men are legally allowed to control the lives of women, as they have been doing with varying degrees of success since time began.

a CONTROL issue- no more no less.

want control? play some videogames.

Apologies are in order.

I made a stupid post that was very well interpreted as being insulting to a number of people.

The above thread was the one that I was referring to when I made my post regarding 'rabid pro - lifers.'; that was why I chose to talk about sexist *old* men. I did *not* in any way mean to insinuate that anybody on this site who prescribed to a pro-life POV was a religious wingnut or otherwise; I was referring to the *most* rabid pro - life types, the types that think that it's okay to bomb clinics and such, who, ironically and even funnily, have more passion and fire for this compared to anyone else, and see themselves as holding the moral high ground, in spite of the fact that they are the least well grounded in the more complex issues regarding abortion.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to anyone who understandably misinterpreted my incomplete (and acceptably, foolish) statements in the post that I made. Mudslinging is not my style.

Allister

Chico, CA

September 2003

DEC 03, 2003 09:25 PM

ava said:

Allister said:
Ever found it hilariously funny how the most rabid pro-lifers are always : 1) old holier-than-thou, self-righteous, male fucks who are so sexist it makes your head spin, and 2) Near-illiterate fanatical religious nuts?

I'm none of those things. I find it funny that because i have a varying opinion i'm called names. I guess it's because i'm not immature.

[Edited on Dec 03, 2003 by ava]

I wasn't referring to the members of this site when I made that post, but it was really awfully stated, and I can't blame you one bit for assuming that I was out to insult you. I wasn't. I've tried to make my position more clear.

Again, I apologize.

Allister

Chico, CA

September 2003

DEC 03, 2003 09:28 PM

Skryche said:

Allister said:
I'm sorry that you chose to withdraw; I don't think anyone alluded that your points were irrelevant. You were simply inundated by opposing opinions.

You kind of made it a pissing contest by saying he was sexist and/or illiterate.

I've apologized for that above; I had thought that I made it clear when I made the initial post that I was *not* referring to members of this site, but reading it again, I obviously failed.

Again, I apologize. The last thing I intended for was for anyone to think that I was initiating a pissing contest.

tarbaby

I'm lost

April 2003

DEC 03, 2003 09:30 PM

Allister said:

I wasn't referring to the members of this site when I made that post, but it was really awfully stated, and I can't blame you one bit for assuming that I was out to insult you. I wasn't. I've tried to make my position more clear.

Again, I apologize.

It's ok. it's not the first, nor will it be the last time it's happened. I do think everyone has the right to make their own choices, it's just that for me it's not an option. I have real life, personal reasons for the way I feel-I'm not with the religious right who think the only reasons are because it's against god.

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