Religion of Peace strikes again

Eraser_X said:

Where does one come up with the idea that the Palestinians are even a race of people?

This type of racist statement discredits any point you may have been trying to make.

Eraser_X said:
Anything credible? or are you still talking out your ass?

This is simililar to silentiums orginal statement to stockula where he said "you really have your head up your ass don't you?" which sean then edited and replaced with "I make personal insults. I am going to be thrown off the site."

I doubt you'll be warned the same way as it appears sean would generally agree with you and disagree with me. However, this is his site, it features private membership, and so speech doesn't need to be protected the same way as in a public forum. But just to be safe, maybe read the FAQ before you post next time.


]Eraser_X said

where can you document that the Mossad is sending suicide bombers into day care centers, night clubs, restaurants, markets, shopping malls, buses full of people (palestinian and Israeli alike) ,schools, synagogues , with devices designed to cause the maximum maiming and murder of innocent civilians?


You couldn't possibly be speaking to me, because I never made these statements. Try fully reading my posts before responding to them.

*edited for spelling





[Edited on Nov 22, 2003 by SpaceInvader]

My question asking you to please state where and when there were ever a Palestinian "people" or Palestinian "homeland" still stands, your flaccid charges of racism don't answer it. Instead , you pull the racism card..nice.

"talking out your ass' is a euphemism, much as i thought silentiums was meant towards stockula...and more or less was leveled at mindmeld and his baloney conspiracy theories he brings forth not you anyway, so don't get yer skivvies in a bunch, Anyhow it was used well into a discussion , not the first thing outta the gate, as silentiums was from the word go.

FAQ? .....If you wanna e-mail teacher that your feelings are hurt , feel free, but please don't allude to the false premise that i may be sycophanting myself to the guy who owns this site because of my loathe for fanatical muslim terrorists.
(FYI on the FAQ thing; didja read the section about bullshit conspiracy theories? )

And in the last section, yer right, I wasn't speaking to you so sorry for any misunderstanding . (And I did fully read your post).

It's not a cheap shot on my part, I really did interpret it that way. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I didn't charge you of being a sycophant, it was an observation of the operation of site and I wasn't making a connection like that.

Historical precedent for a Palestinian homeland is irrelevant. Both sides have acted terribly and the point is both need to give up something to have peace. I don't care who started it, it needs to stop.

Not sure what your "conspiricy theory FYI" is supposed to mean.

You never hurt my feelings and I never try to hurt anyone else's. This is just a debate forum with some guidlines, and that's as much as I worry about it.





[Edited on Nov 22, 2003 by SpaceInvader]

duly noted. carry on then!

Eraser_X said:

Where does one come up with the idea that the Palestinians are even a race of people?


that sounds like assuming they just popped out of the ground to harrass israel.
that place was called palestine until relatively recently.

just because information isn't from a zionist news source doesn't make it a conspiracy theory.

alot of people like to cry wolf on that one any time they hear something that doesn't fit their corporate worldview.

talking out your ass doesn't usually involve multiple sources.


a good site with some stats http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

The conflict between the Palestinians and Isralies is a seprate issue in my opinion.Both are fighting for territory which is a much more realistic reason to die for than some ideology. Of course I think both sides need to be sent to their rooms so they can reflect on what makes them similar as opposed to their differences.

awesome site. thanks for posting the link. it's troubling that i had to take an international law class in a foreign country in order to get a balanced view of the situation in the middle east. it's a shame that so many americans (ignorantly) associate islam with violence.

1)Well, fine, let's talk about Operation Rescue then. The larger point--that it's silly to generalize about a huge religion based on a terrorist group that represents a minute faction of its membership--stands.

2)Of course Turkey has been targeted. Al-Qaeda doesn't support Islam, per se; it supports theocracy. A secular Islamic state for bin Ladenites is every bit as bad as any alternative. Just as for Roy Moore the secular state embodied in the American Consitution is immoral and should be subverted.

3)It is incontravertibly true that the war in Iraq has dverted intelligence and resources away from fighting Al-Qaeda. Worse, the "government" in Afghanistan basically controls a couple dozen blocks in Kabul, at Al-Qaeda is becoming stronger by the day. And, for some reason, we wish to replicate this model--an Islamic state with little social control, which is by far the most likely aftermath of our occupation--in Iraq.
And, of course, the war in Iraq is serving as a $90 billion recruitment campaign for Al Qeada. This is something that we would have to live with if Iraq posed a direct, imminent threat to the United States, but of course it didn't. Hell, it didn't pose an imiment threat to Kuwait.


[Edited on Nov 24, 2003 by scooter11]

This is, of course, a strawman. The killings have "something" to do with Islam, in the same sense that Randolph Terry's terrorism and Roy Moore's lawlessness have "something" to do with Christianity: they're the product of people with radical religious beliefs and authoritarian political beliefs who wish to coerce other people by using violence (in the case of Al Qeada and Terry, through terrorism; in the case of Moore, by the violent power of the state.) They are not, however, a logical outgrowth or necessary extension of relgious belief, which makes calling Islam (or Chritsianity) a "violent" religion fallacious.
Given the essentialist characteristics you impute to Islam, how do you explain the secular state in Turkey?

The axial religions (i.e. Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and a few others) were created during the period that societies were changing from tribal structures to larger structures like city-states. In tribal structures, people take care of their own. They are nice to each other mainly because they're personally related. As people began to gather into larger and larger units, these tribal bonds dissolved, and one of the chief results was that old people, sick people, crazy people, and poor people were no longer getting taken care of by their relatives. More and more, they were becoming what we would now call street people, and just dying in front of everyone. The axial religions were created in large part as an attempt to deal with this problem. Instead of helping somebody because they were your kinsman/woman, you helped them because they were a human being. So originally these religious structures were an attempt at humanitarian aid.

Unfortunately, there were/are a lot of problems with this system. For one, there was always an ambivalence about who counts as a human being. In these small societies, a human being was anybody in your society itself. Anybody else you were free to slaughter. And that ambivalence remains. We see it all the time: it's OK for Christians to kill pagans, it's OK for Muslims to kill infidels, etc.

Furthermore, very early on, the structures of the axial religions were combined with the powers of state and wealth. For example, Christianity destroyed the Roman state and then took over as administrator of Europe. Islam became the ruling religion of half the world almost as soon as it was founded. And of course this intercourse with money and power virtually reversed the purpose of religion: instead of being there to encourage us to help poor/sick/crazy people, it was transformed into a tool to help keep the top dogs on top, to keep the poor oppressed, and to encourage us that war against our neighbor is a holy thing. And it's been like that for a long, long time.

Militant Islam is a bad thing. They're causing some trouble right now. Militant Christianity (i.e. the religion of our administration) is bad too, and is causing a lot more problems. Militant Christians are now in possession of the largest and fiercest arsenal in history. Sure, right now they're using it against Muslims - some of whom might even be militants. But you have to ask yourself, if you're not a militant Christian, do you count as a human in their book? They're using the excuse of militant Islam (which is a dangerous thing, and needs to be dealt with) to pursue the same old agenda: keep their friends in power, steal all the wealth of the nation, and kill/jail/oppress/impoverish/invalidate those who resist.

Fundamentalism is exactly the same disease in all countries and religions.

Nice save, I agree.

Faust said
Militant Islam is a bad thing. They're causing some trouble right now. Militant Christianity (i.e. the religion of our administration) is bad too, and is causing a lot more problems. Militant Christians are now in possession of the largest and fiercest arsenal in history. Sure, right now they're using it against Muslims - some of whom might even be militants. But you have to ask yourself, if you're not a militant Christian, do you count as a human in their book? They're using the excuse of militant Islam (which is a dangerous thing, and needs to be dealt with) to pursue the same old agenda: keep their friends in power, steal all the wealth of the nation, and kill/jail/oppress/impoverish/invalidate those who resist.

Fundamentalism is exactly the same disease in all countries and religions.


You rock. I couldn't agree more even if I were you.

Jeff_Fries said
s5 said:


stellaforstar said:
it's a shame that so many americans (ignorantly) associate islam with violence.



it's even more of a shame that *anyone* associates judaism, christianity, or islam with peace. none of them are peaceful religions - just read their books. of course, if we didn't have those religions around to blame for all the world's ills, then we'd have to face facts and finally admit that we're all after power, land, wealth, etc etc. (well, maybe not everyone.)



Nice save, I agree.


As do I. High fives all around.

Hell yeah s5 you rock, thank you for stating the obvious:

" and by the same token, wouldn't that make many of the israeli jews just as "palestinian" as the palestinians? it's silly to play the racism card when the opposing sides share the same gene pool "

supporting link:

Gene Research Shows Jews
And Palestinians Almost Identical

By Robin McKie Science
Editor The Observer - London (11-25-01)
4-15-2

A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.

Academics who have already received copies of Human Immunology have been urged to rip out the offending pages and throw them away.

Such a drastic act of self-censorship is unprecedented in research publishing and has created widespread disquiet, generating fears that it may involve the suppression of scientific work that questions Biblical dogma.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/article/0,2763,605806,00.html