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stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

NOV 20, 2003 01:52 AM

Series of bombings in Turkey, following a synagogue bombing earlier this week http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103612,00.html

silenzioso

silenzioso

I'm lost
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 02:09 AM

I make personal insults. I am going to be thrown off the site.

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by Sean]

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

NOV 20, 2003 02:17 AM

silentium said:
you really have your head up your ass don't you? mad



Sorry, what ever do you mean?

googused

googused

Portland, OR
OLD SKOOL

NOV 20, 2003 02:38 AM

*grabs popcorn and sody pop and settles in for the ensuing shitstorm*


robot robot robot

silenzioso

silenzioso

I'm lost
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 02:42 AM

"Religion of Peace strikes again"

stockula, don't play coy. you know exactly why i would make a comment like that.

YAWG

YAWG

Victoria, BC
November 2003

NOV 20, 2003 05:21 AM

Er,I think a more precise title for this thread would be"A group with one interpretation of the Koran strikes again".I don't hold all Christians responsible for the Crusades or the Inquistion nor do I hold all Jews responsible for the actons of the Israeli govenment in the West Bank.
I would love to see the Prophet Muhhamed and Jesus of Nazereth show up and start cracking the skulls of some of their followers and yelling "this isn't what I meant".That should clear things up.

MarkoffChaney30832

MarkoffChaney30832

Truth Or Consequences, NM
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 07:55 AM

Hell, I don't even hold all Christians responsible for invading Iraq.

LizFitts

LizFitts

USA
May 2003

NOV 20, 2003 08:01 AM

Regardless, at least 25 people are now dead in attacks targeted at British interests. They don't deserve to be qualified as "religious" - and religion aside, these are fucking Godless serial murderers.

RACER_X

RACER_X

Philadelphia, PA
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 10:23 AM

silentium said:
you really have your head up your ass don't you? mad



yeah and perhaps if he were to kowtow to your apologist agenda then i suppose he would be "enlightened"? whatever

robinbanks

robinbanks

Cleveland, OH
August 2003

NOV 20, 2003 10:29 AM

Racer_X said:
yeah and perhaps if he were to kowtow to your apologist agenda then i suppose he would be "enlightened"? whatever



yep.

RACER_X

RACER_X

Philadelphia, PA
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 10:33 AM

mrsMF said:
Regardless, at least 25 people are now dead in attacks targeted at British interests. They don't deserve to be qualified as "religious" - and religion aside, these are fucking Godless serial murderers.



They are qualified as religious because they make it a point(and drive it home with cowardly suicide bombs) to be considered religious, to suggest that these attacks are in no way religiously motivated would be a disgrace to the truth.
That aside, yes they are serial murderers and should be dealt with accordingly, as in ,eradicated from the face of the earth by all means necessary no matter how long it takes, perhaps Britain will now reconsider the refuge she allows so many fundamentalist mullahs to take within in her borders...that would be as good a start as any.


wink

RACER_X

RACER_X

Philadelphia, PA
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 10:34 AM

robinbanks said:

Racer_X said:
yeah and perhaps if he were to kowtow to your apologist agenda then i suppose he would be "enlightened"? whatever



yep.



well then i guess we agree to disagree ,no?

robinbanks

robinbanks

Cleveland, OH
August 2003

NOV 20, 2003 10:42 AM

Racer_X said:

robinbanks said:

Racer_X said:
yeah and perhaps if he were to kowtow to your apologist agenda then i suppose he would be "enlightened"? whatever



yep.



well then i guess we agree to disagree ,no?



yep.. but we can't always agree. smile

scooter11

scooter11

USA
OLD SKOOL

NOV 20, 2003 10:50 AM

So, Oklahoma City was proves that Christianity isn't a "religion of peace?"

I'll tell ya though, you wingnuts are onto something. Your strategy of essenitally ignoring Al Qaeda and blowing off Afghanistan to invade a country with less involvement with Islamic terror than most of our middle eastern allies sure is paying off! whatever (I'll have to go check out Sully and InstaHack for the latest ad hoc rationalization of Bush's transparently idiotic strategy; I thionk we can safely put the "flypaper" bullshit to bed...)

reprobate

reprobate

New Orleans, LA
December 2002

NOV 20, 2003 11:13 AM

Racer_X said:

mrsMF said:
Regardless, at least 25 people are now dead in attacks targeted at British interests. They don't deserve to be qualified as "religious" - and religion aside, these are fucking Godless serial murderers.



They are qualified as religious because they make it a point(and drive it home with cowardly suicide bombs) to be considered religious, to suggest that these attacks are in no way religiously motivated would be a disgrace to the truth.



Unfortunately, that wasn't the suggestion. The suggestion, in fact the bald faced statement was that this action is representative of a hypocracy of Islam. Doing so is at best jingoistic and selective. Nobody pretends that Christians or Christianity should be judged on the actions of the Phalange or Eric Rudolph. The people in question are a few thousand out of over a billion and a quarter. The disgrace to the truth is to pretend otherwise.

greenapronmonkey

greenapronmonkey

China
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 11:17 AM

Christopher Hitchens On The Bombing and the Jews in Turkey

Seems to me that a large majority of Muslims are peaceful, tolerant people and that these Islamicist Fascists have as much declared war on them as they have on members of Christianity or the decdent western secularists.

stockula

stockula

Anchorage, AK
May 2003

NOV 20, 2003 12:32 PM

scooter11 said:
So, Oklahoma City was proves that Christianity isn't a "religion of peace?"

I'll tell ya though, you wingnuts are onto something. Your strategy of essenitally ignoring Al Qaeda and blowing off Afghanistan to invade a country with less involvement with Islamic terror than most of our middle eastern allies sure is paying off! whatever



Well, first off, McVeigh didn't commit his crimes in the name of any religion whatsoever. The same just isn't true of al-qaeda.

And I find it curious that a country that refused to cooperate with the US invasion of Iraq has been targeted for so much Islamic terror lately. I know Turkey did that mainly to appease France and Germany for entry into the EU, but still.

And I dont think al-Qaeda has been ignored. We've got several of their top guys in custody, and security's been tightened al-Qaeda only feels free to operate within the Muslim world.

Sean

Sean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

NOV 20, 2003 12:40 PM

Since so many moderate muslim groups have spoken out so strongly against this and other acts of violence and depravity committed in the name of Islam I think its unfair to blame this on Islam.

What?

They didn't speak out against it?

They never do?

Huh. Makes you wonder.

Sean

Sean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

NOV 20, 2003 12:44 PM

The month of Ramadan, the month of fasting, has a special status as the month of religious spirituality and devotion. However, in Muslim tradition it is also perceived as a month of Jihad, a month in which Allah grants military victories to His believers. [1] It was during Ramadan that Muslims triumphed in many battles throughout the history of Jihad for the sake of Allah – among them the battle of Badr in 624, [2] the conquest of Mecca in 630 and of Andalusia in 711, the battle of Al-Zallaqa (in Andalusia) in 1086, [3] the battle of Ein Jalut in 1260, [4] as well as the1973 War (called The Ramadan War).

Given the historic religious and military significance of Ramadan, Islamist groups, as well as some mainstream Arab organizations, escalate incitement to terrorism during this period. [5] The following are several recent examples:

The Palestinian Authority

The special Ramadan communiqué issued by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the military wing of Fatah, stated: "The Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, in the month of victory and strength, the blessed month of Ramadan, conveys its finest blessings of Jihad to the Arab and Islamic nation in general and to the Palestinian people standing at the [battle] front in particular. In addition, on the occasion of the blessed month, they send their blessings to all fighters of the Palestinian people, headed by the fighters of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

"We call upon you to intensify your Jihad attacks against the enemy wherever it may be throughout the beloved homeland… Oh, our people… swear to continue to be loyal always to the blood of the martyrs, to bear a blessing in this tremendous month, the month of victories. Our martyrdom operations and operations of quality will continue." [6]

In his Friday sermon broadcast live by Palestinian Television on October 31, 2003 at the Sheikh Zayid bin Sultan Al-Nahyan Mosque in Gaza City, Sheikh Ibrahim Mudeiris, a PA employee, said: "Allah made the [month of] Ramadan a period of commercial [deals] between Himself [and the believers]. Muslims compete among themselves in prayer and in study of the religion at night, in fasting and in expenditure [i.e. charity] for the sake of Allah… [Allah said]: ' Oh believers! Shall I lead you to a commercial deal that will save you from a painful punishment? It is that you believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that you strive for the sake of Allah, with your property and your souls: that will be best for you, if you but knew!' [Koran, 61:10-11]…

"Has the time not come for Muslim servants of Allah to say: 'We will establish our state in Ramadan'? Has the time not come for the Muslims to say: 'We will achieve victories in Ramadan as did our predecessors'? Has the time not come for Muslims to say: 'We will achieve victory and liberate the blessed Al-Aqsa [Mosque] in the month of Ramadan'? It is surprising that the soul of a Muslim who says 'there is no God but Allah,' fasts during the day, and prays and reads the Koran through the night does not call on him to fight the battle of Jihad to liberate the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque and the land of Palestine." [7]

In the following week's sermon at the same mosque, which was also broadcast live by PA television,Muhammad Jamal Abu Hunoud said: "One of the virtues of this month, the month of Ramadan, is that besides being a month of education, of correcting [ones'] manner, and the month of the Koran, it is the month of Jihad so that the word of Allah will reign supreme, the month of victory and conquest, the month of the Muslims' many certain victories from the time of [Muhammad's] prophecy to this day. The Muslims were victorious in all the battles they entered into in the month of Ramadan…

"On the 17th of this month, in the second year of the Hijra, the great invasion of Badr took place. [This was] the day of salvation, the day the two camps met, [8] the day Allah strengthened the Muslims and granted them a decisive victory… On the 20th of the month of Ramadan, in the eighth year of the Hijra, the great conquest of Mecca took place. The Messenger of Allah returned to [Mecca] together with his 10,000 companions… [Similarly], one of the victories in our time in the month of Ramadan was the day of the crossing of the Suez Canal [i.e. the 1973 War], the day of the great crossing that shattered the attackers' fortifications and undermined the entity of those who act with [such] tyranny in the land [that] their houses are destroyed by their own hands as well as by the hands of their enemies." [9]

The 16th issue of Al-Fateh, an on-line children's newspaper published by Hamas, posted a Ramadan story entitled "The Jihad-Fighting Group," in which "…Sheikh Abd Al-Rahman loves Jihadand the Jihad fighters. He speaks of them with wonder and says that if he were a youth he would take up arms, fight the war of Jihad for the sake of Allah, and liberate the Muslim lands, and the land of Palestine in particular, from the hands of the pillagers…

"In the lesson of the day, the Sheikh sat smiling and said: 'Oh children, write the Hadith [you learned] today. It is the message to continue the Jihad until the day the dead are resurrected and the Muslims, the Jihad fighters, are victorious against the Jews and their followers, the enemies of Allah. We are [in the month] Ramadan, which is the month of Jihad.'

"The students opened their notebooks, their eyes lifted up towards the Sheikh's mouth. The Sheikh opened his mouth and said, 'The Messenger of Allah, may he rest in peace, said, 'There is still a group in my nation that safeguards its religion, vanquishes its enemy, and is not harmed by those who attack it, and its members are the victors thanks to the strength of Allah.' It was said [to the Prophet Muhammad], 'Oh messenger of Allah, where are they and who are [these people]?' The Prophet answered: 'They are Jerusalem and its environs…'" [10]

Chechnya

In a Ramadan communiqué, members of the Shura Military Council of the Jihad Fighters in Chechnya wrote: "We bless the entire Islamic nation – the clerics, the preachers, the activists, and Muslims everywhere, and in Chechnya in particular – at the beginning of the month of goodness and blessing, the month of the blessed Ramadan which Allah made the month of the Islamic nation's victory and heroism. When we, the Military Shura Council, convey this blessing [to you], we remind the [Muslim] nation – leaders, clerics, and all Muslims – of the importance of closing ranks, recognizing the enemy's tricks, and repudiating the evil intents of the Jews, the Christians, and other [elements] lying in wait in malice for the Islamic nation. We also recall Jihad for the sake of Allah, which is the path of heroism and victory by means of which Allah commanded us to confront our enemies, drive them away, and thwart their schemes." [11]

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

In an article titled, "The Great Month of Ramadan: The Oasis of the God-Fearing and the Season of Jihad for the Sake of Allah," the spiritual leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Mamoun Al-Hudeibi, wrote: "Behold the month of Ramadan, month of the victories throughout history, among them the anniversary of the crossing of [the Suez Canal] on the 10th of the month of Ramadan [in 1973]. This [was] the Jihad battle and victory and a glorious and authentic picture of the Muslim soldier who cried 'Allah Akbar,' observed the worship, the fast, and the reading of the Koran, and succeeded in defending his nation's honor. The soldiers turned to Jihad and to crossing [the Suez Canal] while [remaining] loyal [to their religion], and thus Allah granted them victory over their enemies… The victory that took place in the recent past can take place today and tomorrow, provided we return to Allah and convene under the banner of Islam…" [12]


The Mufti of Lebanon

During a Beirut parade at the beginning of Ramadan, the Mufti of Lebanon, Muhammad Rashid Qabbani, said: "Foreign imperialism returned in order to trample the Arab land, as was the case following World War I. We will never accept the Israeli foreign occupier in Palestine, and we will never accept the American foreign occupier in Iraq and Afghanistan. We must cooperate with the Palestinian people in Palestine, with the Iraqi people in Iraq, and with the Afghan people in Afghanistan to drive away the foreign American imperialism occupying our Arab land. Today, it also threatens some of our [Arab] countries – Syria and Saudi Arabia – through enticement and intimidation. Jihad is the slogan of our nation. We will fight the war of Jihad against the foreign occupier in Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan…

"The word of Allah reigns supreme. It is this that will drive away the soldiers of the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the soldiers of the American occupation of Iraq… This blessed month is the month of victory, but you must safeguard the security of your land. The security of [your land] lies in your solidarity, in the solidarity of your homeland Lebanon, and in your devotion to the country…" [13]

Al-Qa'ida

Sawt Al-Jihad, a biweekly magazine affiliated with Al-Qa'ida, wrote: "Jihad for the sake of Allah and fighting against the enemies of Allah is the peak of Islam and the greatest observance of the commandments and good deeds. The sanctity of Ramadan does not preclude Jihad in its various forms… Bearing arms and Jihad for the sake of Allah during the month of Ramadan is empowering Allah and his sanctity in this month of Jihad for the sake of Allah, and it is the endeavor and the culmination of observing the commandments and in worship." [14]





[1] It should be noted that Palestinian schoolbooks emphasize the Jihad aspect, not the fasting aspect, of the month of Ramadan. Islamic Education, a sixth-grade textbook, portrays this month as "a month of the great victories in Islam," citing "the renowned Ramadan War of 1973 between the Arabs and Israel [as] irrefutable proof of the importance of this month." See MEMRI Special Report No. 6.

[2] A battle between supporters of Muhammad and a merchant caravan of the Quraysh tribe.

[3] A battle in which Spanish Muslims defeated the Castilians near the city of Badajoz on today's Portuguese border.

[4] A battle in which the Mamelukes triumphed over the Mongols in the Jezreel Valley.

[5] Examples of incitement and escalation during this year's month of Ramadan include a communiqué by The Twentieth Revolution Brigades, the military wing of Iraq's National Islamic Resistance, announcing its manufacture of a new missile called "Ramadan 1" and calling on "every Iraqi and every Muslim to continue the Jihadto humiliate the occupier and expel him from our land with the strength of Allah." From Al-Sabil (Jordan), October 27, 2003. The Taliban in Afghanistan's special Ramadan communiqué said: "Our Jihad will continue, with Allah's help. Our spears will not be bent. Our fingers will not be removed from the trigger, with Allah's help. The fighting will not be exhausted. Ours is the fight of one whose heart longs to meet his Lord, the comfort of the world to come, the black-eyed girls [the 72 virgins], and the gardens of Allah. Our fallen to heaven and their fallen to hell. Our souls will be in the entrails of the green birds that bask in the goodness of their Lord." See:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalislamicmedia/message/170.

[6] http://moltaqa.fateh.tv/showthread.php?s=13db5be1ba58af00bff10f43aa66231&threadid=1745

[7] Palestinian Television (PA), October 31, 2003.

[8] A paraphrase of the Koran verse 41:8. The two camps are the camp of Muhammad and his Muhajiroun followers and the caravan from Mecca led by Abu Sufian.

[9] Palestinian Television (PA), November 7, 2003.

[10] http://www.al-fateh.net/fa-16/mujahida.htm

[11] http://www.qoqaz.com, October 26, 2003.

[12] http://www.ikhwanpress.com/maqal.htm

[13] Al-Mustaqbal (Lebanon), October 27, 2003.

[14] Sawt Al-Jihad, Fourth issue, November, 2003.

robinbanks

robinbanks

Cleveland, OH
August 2003

NOV 20, 2003 01:24 PM

Sean said:

What?

They didn't speak out against it?

They never do?

Huh. Makes you wonder.



Well.. I recently went to a presentation given by Muslim leaders here in Cleveland. Terrorism was roundly condemned. So yeah.. I can tell you from experience that Muslims speak out against violence.

edit: I'm confused by your first post after reading it again. Excuse me if I misinterpreted your message.


[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by robinbanks]

Sean

Sean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

NOV 20, 2003 01:25 PM

How about a few links to muslim groups stating killing innocent christian and jews is wrong? Surely this should be easy to find. I linked to a large number of huge sometimes state funded muslim groups calling for the killing of innocent civilians, i'm sure you can find some groups condemning these acts publicly, yeah? It's only a very small number of extremists who think these attacks are ok, right?

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by Sean]

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by Sean]

robinbanks

robinbanks

Cleveland, OH
August 2003

NOV 20, 2003 01:30 PM

Sean said:
How about a few links to muslim groups stating killing innocent christian and jews is wrong? Surely this should be easy to find. I linked to a large number of huge sometimes state funded muslim groups calling for the killing of innocent civilians, i'm sure you can find some groups condemning these acts publicly, yeah?

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by Sean]



Yeah.. I'm not stupid.. I know these groups are out there. I can also send you links to Muslim groups that disagree wholeheartedly with violence.

You're not telling me anything new here. Your blanket assessments still don't hold much sway with me.. whether they be with Muslims or liberals.

Sean

Sean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

NOV 20, 2003 01:32 PM

robinbanks said:
I can also send you links to Muslim groups that disagree wholeheartedly with violence. Your blanket assessments still don't hold much sway with me.. whether they be with Muslims or liberals.



I am a liberal. I believe in freedom for all people on the planet. I believe militant Islam is an enemy of personal freedom. I'm so glad you can send me links to muslim groups that oppose violence and strongly condemn these attacks. Can you post the links here please?

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by Sean]

silenzioso

silenzioso

I'm lost
February 2003

NOV 20, 2003 02:35 PM

here is some linkage:
MAT
islam of today
movie to watch
a book
here's an interview with powell reminding everyone it's not a war against islam

and besides, don't you know atleast on person who is islamic? smile

[Edited on Nov 20, 2003 by silentium]

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