TOPICS:
OCT 01, 2008 07:01 PM
Thank you pete, one of your best posts ever.
There are some serious heavy-hitting names in there.

meatpieboy
Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004
OCT 01, 2008 08:20 PM
I hope for once the politicians will listen to the academics.
Ha.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 01, 2008 08:30 PM
TheFuckOffKid said:
Thank you pete, one of your best posts ever.
There are some serious heavy-hitting names in there.
Thanks i guess.
Some comments by one of the academic economists who opposed the bailout.
Miron on the bailout
Jeffrey A. Miron is senior lecturer in economics at Harvard University.
Commentary: Bankruptcy, not bailout, is the right answer
By Jeffrey A. Miron
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Congress has balked at the Bush administration's proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Under this plan, the Treasury would have bought the "troubled assets" of financial institutions in an attempt to avoid economic meltdown.
This bailout was a terrible idea. Here's why.
The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.
Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.
This subprime lending was more than a minor relaxation of existing credit guidelines. This lending was a wholesale abandonment of reasonable lending practices in which borrowers with poor credit characteristics got mortgages they were ill-equipped to handle.
Once housing prices declined and economic conditions worsened, defaults and delinquencies soared, leaving the industry holding large amounts of severely depreciated mortgage assets.
The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.
The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.
Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.
In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.
Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.
Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen.
Further, the current credit freeze is likely due to Wall Street's hope of a bailout; bankers will not sell their lousy assets for 20 cents on the dollar if the government might pay 30, 50, or 80 cents.
The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration's claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.
If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.
The bailout has more problems. The final legislation will probably include numerous side conditions and special dealings that reward Washington lobbyists and their clients.
Anticipation of the bailout will engender strategic behavior by Wall Street institutions as they shuffle their assets and position their balance sheets to maximize their take. The bailout will open the door to further federal meddling in financial markets.
So what should the government do? Eliminate those policies that generated the current mess. This means, at a general level, abandoning the goal of home ownership independent of ability to pay. This means, in particular, getting rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with policies like the Community Reinvestment Act that pressure banks into subprime lending.
The right view of the financial mess is that an enormous fraction of subprime lending should never have occurred in the first place. Someone has to pay for that. That someone should not be, and does not need to be, the U.S. taxpayer.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 01, 2008 08:38 PM
If you want to e-mail your congressman about this mess you can use the below link to find his e-mail address.
My take is that more and louder screaming is called for.
This bill is a fraud, the bankers and investors who are behind this are crooks trying to bilk the public of a huge sum of money.
Feel free to use the references I give to show your congressman that serious Academic economists actually oppose this, and that at the VERY least, hearings where experts on finance and economics both for and against should be heard BEFORE any more votes on the matter are held.
congress-email-directiry
OCT 01, 2008 08:43 PM
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Like this:
"It doesn't seem to me that a lot decisions that we're going to have to live with for a long time have to be made by Friday,'' said Robert Lucas, a University of Chicago economist and 1995 Nobel Prize winner who signed the letter. "The situation may get urgent, but it's not urgent right now. Right now it's a financial sector problem.''
Between the 24th and today, it has gotten urgent, with the pain spreading from Wall Street to small businesses, consumers, and municipalities, as credit lines dry up, home equity lines are closed off, and short-term loans are denied.
Erik Brynjolfsson, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School, said his main objection "is the breathtaking amount of unchecked discretion it gives to the Secretary of the Treasury. It is unprecedented in a modern democracy.''
In its original form, the plan had no oversight whatsoever. It specifically excluded Congress and the courts from any oversight abilities. That was removed, and replaced with a plan for bipartisan oversight and a gradual release of funds, with the future release of chunks of the funds requiring congressional approval or executive order. That's a pretty massive difference that wasn't there when this letter was formed.
From the letter:
2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.
The original proposal was three (THREE!!!) pages. Of course it was ambiguous, unclear, and vague. It then grew to 450 pages as they did clarify the terms, occasions, and methods of purchases.
The third point, along with the call to action, are a request for careful consideration and a warning against haste. The pace at which Congress was pushing the bill last Wednesday was undeniable rushed. A week later, when they were working over the weekend and late into the night, and heard at least three wildly different alternatives on the floor of the House, one might still argue that it's being rushed, but a reasonable person might also consider that an appropriate amount of deliberation and debate, given what's happened in the last week.
So how many of those same economists are against the bill that's actually before Congress tonight? I'm assuming you don't know.
I was against the plan as proposed by Paulson too, but I knew that it was just that, a proposal, and would never in a hundred years make it through Congress untouched. The plan, as it was proposed by Paulson, was brief, vague, heavy-handed, and downright scary. It is not the plan before Congress today.
I'm sure that there are plenty of economists that are still against it, just as there are many economists that are for it, but I would be willing to bet that many of those economists have changed their opinion.
OCT 01, 2008 08:50 PM
bean said:
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Like this:
"It doesn't seem to me that a lot decisions that we're going to have to live with for a long time have to be made by Friday,'' said Robert Lucas, a University of Chicago economist and 1995 Nobel Prize winner who signed the letter. "The situation may get urgent, but it's not urgent right now. Right now it's a financial sector problem.''
Between the 24th and today, it has gotten urgent, with the pain spreading from Wall Street to small businesses, consumers, and municipalities, as credit lines dry up, home equity lines are closed off, and short-term loans are denied.
Erik Brynjolfsson, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School, said his main objection "is the breathtaking amount of unchecked discretion it gives to the Secretary of the Treasury. It is unprecedented in a modern democracy.''
In its original form, the plan had no oversight whatsoever. It specifically excluded Congress and the courts from any oversight abilities. That was removed, and replaced with a plan for bipartisan oversight and a gradual release of funds, with the future release of chunks of the funds requiring congressional approval or executive order. That's a pretty massive difference that wasn't there when this letter was formed.
From the letter:
2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.
The original proposal was three (THREE!!!) pages. Of course it was ambiguous, unclear, and vague. It then grew to 450 pages as they did clarify the terms, occasions, and methods of purchases.
The third point, along with the call to action, are a request for careful consideration and a warning against haste. The pace at which Congress was pushing the bill last Wednesday was undeniable rushed. A week later, when they were working over the weekend and late into the night, and heard at least three wildly different alternatives on the floor of the House, one might still argue that it's being rushed, but a reasonable person might also consider that an appropriate amount of deliberation and debate, given what's happened in the last week.
So how many of those same economists are against the bill that's actually before Congress tonight? I'm assuming you don't know.
I was against the plan as proposed by Paulson too, but I knew that it was just that, a proposal, and would never in a hundred years make it through Congress untouched. The plan, as it was proposed by Paulson, was brief, vague, heavy-handed, and downright scary. It is not the plan before Congress today.
I'm sure that there are plenty of economists that are still against it, just as there are many economists that are for it, but I would be willing to bet that many of those economists have changed their opinion.
Thank you.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 01, 2008 09:18 PM
bean said:
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Has congress held hearings? Have academic experts on both sides been allowed to testify both for and against the idea?
No?
Then the most fundamental objection (hasty action when no need for extreme haste is needed) has not been addressed.
The assertion that the pain at wall street is "bad: is absurd, it is much less than was felt in the '87 crash and the overall effect on the economy of that was small.
Part of the market problems now are caused by major players who can benefit from this bailout waiting to see which way it falls.
No open congressional hearings with both sides presenting evidence, then vote HELL NO!!
OCT 01, 2008 10:41 PM
petepolly said:
bean said:
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Has congress held hearings? Have academic experts on both sides been allowed to testify both for and against the idea?
No?
I love how you answered your own question there, as though I wouldn't have an answer. That's cute. See, the problem is, unlike the question I asked you where I assumed a response knowing you couldn't possibly have one, your question has a quantifiable answer, and you are wrong.
Testimony of CBO Director Peter Orszag before the House Financial Services Committee (House FSC - 9/25)
This was the third consecutive day of testimony before House Financial Services Committee hearings.
Orszag runs down questions the Paulson proposal brings up, including those mentioned in the Economists' letter, and goes into great detail discussing them.
And then he talks about alternative proposals:
Alternatives to the Treasury's Proposal
Some analysts, in assessing the Treasury's proposal, have pointed out that other recent actions by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury have given taxpayers significantly more upside in the form of equity stakes in the companies that receive assistance. Those actions have been aimed at supporting particular troubled institutions, rather than at enhancing the liquidity of the financial markets. Under some alternative proposals, the government would receive shares in an institution if it ultimately lost money on the sale of assets purchased from the institution. That approach would reduce the risk of overpaying for securities if the seller had more information about the value of those securities than the Treasury did. However, institutions that gave up equity would presumably expect to receive higher prices for their assets, and an equity stake in the firms might not offer any better upside to taxpayers than direct purchases of the assets on a risk-adjusted basis. Furthermore, healthy institutions might be deterred from participating, which could make it more likely that the federal government would overpay for assets by limiting the potential number of sellers%u2014and the potential dilution for existing shareholders if asset prices declined in the future might make it challenging for financial institutions that issued such equity to the government to raise private capital in the future.
An alternative approach that is more directly aimed at addressing insolvency concerns is for the government to invest directly in financial institutions to strengthen their capital positions, without directly purchasing troubled assets. The injections could take the form of preferred stock, which would effectively lower the cost of new capital for the institutions. Such proposals could be modeled along the lines of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, a Depression-era institution.
A number of twists to that approach have been offered. Some versions require that the institutions match the injection with new private funds in the form of common stock. In addition, some require that the underwriting risk associated with raising new capital be mutualized by the group of participating institutions acting as a syndicate. The syndicate would be responsible for at least half of the underwriting burden, which would give it an incentive to limit membership to solvent institutions only. Participating banks might also be required to suspend dividends, which would increase their retained earnings and thus add directly to capital. (Although institutions can always cut their dividends, doing so usually sends a bad signal to financial markets. A requirement could dilute the effect of that bad signal.)
Such proposals have some advantages:
* They provide some upside to taxpayers in the form of dividends and capital gains on preferred stock. Under some proposals, the payments of dividends to the government would be deferred.
* They avoid the challenge of pricing and then selling individual assets (although they raise the issue of how to price the equity shares the government offers to purchase).
* They avoid rewarding the firms that have made the worst investment decisions.
* They keep the government as a minority shareholder. The firms' managers would continue to run the firms on a profit-maximizing basis, thereby mitigating the risks of the government using its equity positions to pursue a range of public policy goals.
* They could impose losses on shareholders and changes in management.
* Such plans have some disadvantages though:
* They fail to address directly the illiquidity problems for some assets and the associated uncertainty.
* The assistance may not be targeted to the institutions most in need of help, and the firms that most need capital may be most reluctant to take it.
* The approach could inject additional funds into institutions whose business model is no longer viable. Past experience suggests that extending the operations of insolvent institutions may increase the ultimate cost to taxpayers.
* The proposals raise difficult questions about eligibility criteria. For example, would finance companies that are part of large diversified holding companies be eligible?
The House FSC's page hasn't been updated since Paulson and Bernanke were scheduled to appear before the committee in hearings, but considering the amount of time they spent on these hearings, it's safe to assume Orszag wasn't the only one talking about alternatives.
In short, yes they had hearings, and yes they brought up alternatives.
Oh, and there was a steady stream of representatives testifying before the committee against the proposal. I'm not going to post all of them here, but if you search around a little on YouTube, I'm sure you can find them.
OCT 01, 2008 11:15 PM
Tyler Cowen of GMU and the Marginal Revolution blog did not sign the letter as far as I can see, but his colleague and co-blogger Alex Tabarrok did.
Here's what Cowen has to say.
A few inattentive malcontents are complaining that I haven't stated my views. I have, but if you want them, or some of them, in one neat place, devoid of subtlety or explanation, here they are:
1. Glass-Steagall repeal was not a major cause of the financial crisis, nor was government-induced "minority lending."
2. We should use regulation to move more of the currently unregulated derivatives markets to the clearinghouse model.
3. The crisis represents a massive conjunction of both market and governmental failure.
4. I would not nationalize banks as ongoing concerns, at least not short of a far more extreme emergency than the current status quo.
5. The modified Paulson plan was better than nothing -- especially after the market had been scared -- but far from my first choice. In any case the plan would have been revised almost immediately. The Paulson and Dodd plans were never that far apart.
6. My first choice is to induce and if need be to force more information revelation, identify the insolvent banks, close them up, and give the battle-tested FDIC a much greater role in the whole process.
7. In the meantime the Fed should not worry much about inflation.
8. The critical deregulatory mistake was allowing excess leverage. Many deregulations get blamed but in fact contributed little to the problem.
9. Everyone says that letting Lehman die was a big mistake but I'm not yet convinced. Maybe a bracingly high TED spread is what we need.
10. Libertarians are overrating the moral hazard argument, as many equity holders have been wiped out.
11. If someone is pushing conclusions and not identifying the potential weak points in his or her arguments, be suspicious. Also beware of anyone pretending to offer you simple answers.
12. I have a long and complicated view on the relevance of Austrian Business Cycle Theory which resists easy summation, but markets could have and should have been more cautious in response to Greenspan's easy money policies.
13. Insolvent hedge funds and the commercial paper market remain outstanding issues which are not easy to address.
14. I agree with Arnold Kling about relaxing capital requirements though at this point I don't expect it to help much.
15. The crisis is complex and has many causes; there won't be a simple or quick solution.
Tabarrok comments that his views are similar to Cowen's.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 06:08 AM
TheFuckOffKid said:
Tyler Cowen of GMU and the Marginal Revolution blog did not sign the letter as far as I can see, but his colleague and co-blogger Alex Tabarrok did.
Here's what Cowen has to say.
A few inattentive malcontents are complaining that I haven't stated my views. I have, but if you want them, or some of them, in one neat place, devoid of subtlety or explanation, here they are:
1. Glass-Steagall repeal was not a major cause of the financial crisis, nor was government-induced "minority lending."
2. We should use regulation to move more of the currently unregulated derivatives markets to the clearinghouse model.
3. The crisis represents a massive conjunction of both market and governmental failure.
4. I would not nationalize banks as ongoing concerns, at least not short of a far more extreme emergency than the current status quo.
5. The modified Paulson plan was better than nothing -- especially after the market had been scared -- but far from my first choice. In any case the plan would have been revised almost immediately. The Paulson and Dodd plans were never that far apart.
6. My first choice is to induce and if need be to force more information revelation, identify the insolvent banks, close them up, and give the battle-tested FDIC a much greater role in the whole process.
7. In the meantime the Fed should not worry much about inflation.
8. The critical deregulatory mistake was allowing excess leverage. Many deregulations get blamed but in fact contributed little to the problem.
9. Everyone says that letting Lehman die was a big mistake but I'm not yet convinced. Maybe a bracingly high TED spread is what we need.
10. Libertarians are overrating the moral hazard argument, as many equity holders have been wiped out.
11. If someone is pushing conclusions and not identifying the potential weak points in his or her arguments, be suspicious. Also beware of anyone pretending to offer you simple answers.
12. I have a long and complicated view on the relevance of Austrian Business Cycle Theory which resists easy summation, but markets could have and should have been more cautious in response to Greenspan's easy money policies.
13. Insolvent hedge funds and the commercial paper market remain outstanding issues which are not easy to address.
14. I agree with Arnold Kling about relaxing capital requirements though at this point I don't expect it to help much.
15. The crisis is complex and has many causes; there won't be a simple or quick solution.
Tabarrok comments that his views are similar to Cowen's.
I think a consensus exists that the congress is being too hasty in not holding hearings first, and that the need for response before the election is over stated, probably in the interest of shareholders being bailed out at the expense of taxpayers.
And your opinion is on that specific issue--?

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 06:23 AM
bean said:
petepolly said:
bean said:
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Has congress held hearings? Have academic experts on both sides been allowed to testify both for and against the idea?
No?
I love how you answered your own question there, as though I wouldn't have an answer. That's cute. See, the problem is, unlike the question I asked you where I assumed a response knowing you couldn't possibly have one, your question has a quantifiable answer, and you are wrong.
Testimony of CBO Director Peter Orszag before the House Financial Services Committee (House FSC - 9/25)
This guy is on the government payroll, the Secretary of the Treasury is backing the proposal. Do you honestly think he is going to tell congress that the proposal is a rip-off even if it is?
Bernanke is a govenment employee too, have INDEPENDENT EXPERTS LIKE ANY OF THOSE WHO SIGNED THE LETTER TESTIFIED AGAINST THIS?
I don't think so.
The people who want this are trying to ram it through congress before the election without proper hearings.
OCT 02, 2008 06:48 AM
Hah! I think the entire department from my university signed it...

Adroitbeing
I'm lost
September 2003
OCT 02, 2008 07:40 AM
Clearly our dear friend petepolly has absolutely nothing invested in the outcome - except his tired devotion to libertarian principle.
If petepolly ran a business, he would be concerned about access to capital. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any meaningful deposits held in a mutual fund, where 25% of the value was wiped out in a single day, he would be concerned about shoring up confidence. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any role in sourcing funds for start ups in emerging technologies, some of which he espouses to support, he would be concerned that capital is too scarce. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any responsibility for the employment of 150,000 people in the greater New York area he would be concerned about those jobs and the effect of their loss will have on that economy. He doesn't.
If petepolly were responsible for a payroll, or for bringing new products to market, or for solving any serious business issue, he would be concerned about the lack of confidence and momentum in the market. He doesn't.
If petepolly were thinking about how he might put his child through college, he would be concerned about access to affordable loans. He doesn't
If petepolly felt any responsibility toward rebuilding and expanding the infrastructure of this country; improving roads and bridges, building new water treatment facilities, or improving the electricity grid, he would be worried about bond ratings and the market uptake of municipal bonds. He doesn't.
No, petepolly is simply a libertarian fanboy with a deep fascination for posting excerpts from Atlas Shrugged and quoting standard libertarian phlegm on an Internet chat board, which only helps to make it clear what responsibilities he actually believes are important.
OCT 02, 2008 07:53 AM
petepolly said:
bean said:
petepolly said:
bean said:
Um. Guys, you know this is referring to the 3-page proposal put forth last week by Henry Paulson, not the bill that passed the Senate tonight, and that some of the reasons behind signing the letter are either already outdated or, in hindsight, not exactly correct, right?
Has congress held hearings? Have academic experts on both sides been allowed to testify both for and against the idea?
No?
I love how you answered your own question there, as though I wouldn't have an answer. That's cute. See, the problem is, unlike the question I asked you where I assumed a response knowing you couldn't possibly have one, your question has a quantifiable answer, and you are wrong.
Testimony of CBO Director Peter Orszag before the House Financial Services Committee (House FSC - 9/25)
This guy is on the government payroll, the Secretary of the Treasury is backing the proposal. Do you honestly think he is going to tell congress that the proposal is a rip-off even if it is?
Yes. Because that's his job.
OCT 02, 2008 07:57 AM
Wow, economists from the University of Chicago dislike a plan that increases government intervention in the economy?
I'm shocked. Really.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 05:26 PM
Uncognitive said:
Wow, economists from the University of Chicago dislike a plan that increases government intervention in the economy?
I'm shocked. Really.
Sorry, that is a obvious and total fraud.
List below of singers of the letter, 166 names, the vast majority of whom are not at that university. It includes people at a lot of places, like Columbia, Stanford and MIT, you know minor unimportant not so respectable universities.
Acemoglu Daron (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
Ackerberg Daniel (UCLA)
Adler Michael (Columbia University)
Admati Anat R. (Stanford University)
Ales Laurence (Carnegie Mellon University)
Alexis Marcus (Northwestern University)
Alvarez Fernando (University of Chicago)
Andersen Torben (Northwestern University)
Baliga Sandeep (Northwestern University)
Banerjee Abhijit V. (Massachussets Institute of Technology)
Barankay Iwan (University of Pennsylvania)
Barry Brian (University of Chicago)
Bartkus James R. (Xavier University of Louisiana)
Becker Charles M. (Duke University)
Becker Robert A. (Indiana University)
Beim David (Columbia University)
Berk Jonathan (Stanford University)
Bisin Alberto (New York University)
Bittlingmayer George (University of Kansas)
Blank Emily (Howard University)
Boldrin Michele (Washington University)
Bollinger, Christopher R. (University of Kentucky)
Bossi, Luca (University of Miami)
Brooks Taggert J. (University of Wisconsin)
Brynjolfsson Erik (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
Buera Francisco J.(UCLA)
Cabral Luis (New York University)
Camp Mary Elizabeth (Indiana University)
Carmel Jonathan (University of Michigan)
Carroll Christopher (Johns Hopkins University)
Cassar Gavin (University of Pennsylvania)
Chaney Thomas (University of Chicago)
Chari Varadarajan V. (University of Minnesota)
Chauvin Keith W. (University of Kansas)
Chintagunta Pradeep K. (University of Chicago)
Christiano Lawrence J. (Northwestern University)
Clementi, Gian Luca (New York University)
Cochrane John (University of Chicago)
Coleman John (Duke University)
Constantinides George M. (University of Chicago)
Cooley, Thomas (New York University)
Crain Robert (UC Berkeley)
Culp Christopher (University of Chicago)
Da Zhi (University of Notre Dame)
Darity, William (Duke University)
Davis Morris (University of Wisconsin)
De Marzo Peter (Stanford University)
Dubé Jean-Pierre H. (University of Chicago)
Edlin Aaron (UC Berkeley)
Eichenbaum Martin (Northwestern University)
Ely Jeffrey (Northwestern University)
Eraslan Hülya K. K.(Johns Hopkins University)
Fair Ray (Yale University)
Faulhaber Gerald (University of Pennsylvania)
Feldmann Sven (University of Melbourne)
Fernandez, Raquel (New York University)
Fernandez-Villaverde Jesus (University of Pennsylvania)
Fohlin Caroline (Johns Hopkins University)
Fox Jeremy T. (University of Chicago)
Frank Murray Z.(University of Minnesota)
Frenzen Jonathan (University of Chicago)
Fuchs William (University of Chicago)
Fudenberg Drew (Harvard University)
Gabaix Xavier (New York University)
Gao Paul (Notre Dame University)
Garicano Luis (University of Chicago)
Gerakos Joseph J. (University of Chicago)
Gibbs Michael (University of Chicago)
Glomm Gerhard (Indiana University)
Goettler Ron (University of Chicago)
Goldin Claudia (Harvard University)
Gordon Robert J. (Northwestern University)
Greenstone Michael (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
Gregory, Karl D. (Oakland University)
Guadalupe Maria (Columbia University)
Guerrieri Veronica (University of Chicago)
Hagerty Kathleen (Northwestern University)
Hamada Robert S. (University of Chicago)
Hansen Lars (University of Chicago)
Harris Milton (University of Chicago)
Hart Oliver (Harvard University)
Hazlett Thomas W. (George Mason University)
Heaton John (University of Chicago)
Heckman James (University of Chicago - Nobel Laureate)
Henderson David R. (Hoover Institution)
Henisz, Witold (University of Pennsylvania)
Hertzberg Andrew (Columbia University)
Hite Gailen (Columbia University)
Hitsch Günter J. (University of Chicago)
Hodrick Robert J. (Columbia University)
Hollifield Burton (Carnegie Mellon University)
Hopenhayn Hugo (UCLA)
Hurst Erik (University of Chicago)
Imrohoroglu Ayse (University of Southern California)
Isakson Hans (University of Northern Iowa)
Israel Ronen (London Business School)
Jaffee Dwight M. (UC Berkeley)
Jagannathan Ravi (Northwestern University)
Jenter Dirk (Stanford University)
Jones Charles M. (Columbia Business School)
Jovanovic Boyan (New York University)
Kaboski Joseph P. (Ohio State University)
Kahn Matthew (UCLA)
Kaplan Ethan (Stockholm University)
Karaivanov Alexander (Simon Fraser University)
Karolyi, Andrew (Ohio State University)
Kashyap Anil (University of Chicago)
Keim Donald B (University of Pennsylvania)
Ketkar Suhas L (Vanderbilt University)
Kiesling Lynne (Northwestern University)
Klenow Pete (Stanford University)
Koch Paul (University of Kansas)
Kocherlakota Narayana (University of Minnesota)
Koijen Ralph S.J. (University of Chicago)
Kondo Jiro (Northwestern University)
Korteweg Arthur (Stanford University)
Kortum Samuel (University of Chicago)
Krueger Dirk (University of Pennsylvania)
Ledesma Patricia (Northwestern University)
Lee Lung-fei (Ohio State University)
Leeper Eric M. (Indiana University)
Letson David (University of Miami)
Leuz Christian (University of Chicago)
Levine David I.(UC Berkeley)
Levine David K.(Washington University)
Levy David M. (George Mason University)
Linnainmaa Juhani (University of Chicago)
Lott John R. Jr. (University of Maryland)
Lucas Robert (University of Chicago - Nobel Laureate)
Ludvigson, Sydney C. (New York University)
Luttmer Erzo G.J. (University of Minnesota)
Manski Charles F. (Northwestern University)
Martin Ian (Stanford University)
Mayer Christopher (Columbia University)
Mazzeo Michael (Northwestern University)
McDonald Robert (Northwestern University)
Meadow Scott F. (University of Chicago)
Meeropol, Michael (Western New England College)
Mehra Rajnish (UC Santa Barbara)
Mian Atif (University of Chicago)
Middlebrook Art (University of Chicago)
Miguel Edward (UC Berkeley)
Miravete Eugenio J. (University of Texas at Austin)
Miron Jeffrey (Harvard University)
Moeller, Thomas (Texas Christian University)
Moretti Enrico (UC Berkeley)
Moriguchi Chiaki (Northwestern University)
Moro Andrea (Vanderbilt University)
Morse Adair (University of Chicago)
Mortensen Dale T. (Northwestern University)
Mortimer Julie Holland (Harvard University)
Moskowitz, Tobias J. (University of Chicago)
Munger Michael C. (Duke University)
Muralidharan Karthik (UC San Diego)
Nair Harikesh (Stanford University)
Nanda Dhananjay (University of Miami)
Nevo Aviv (Northwestern University)
Ohanian Lee (UCLA)
Pagliari Joseph (University of Chicago)
Papanikolaou Dimitris (Northwestern University)
Parker Jonathan (Northwestern University)
Paul Evans (Ohio State University)
Pearce David (New York University)
Pejovich Svetozar (Steve) (Texas A&M University)
Peltzman Sam (University of Chicago)
Perri Fabrizio (University of Minnesota)
Phelan Christopher (University of Minnesota)
Piazzesi Monika (Stanford University)
Pippenger, Michael K. (University of Alaska)
Piskorski Tomasz (Columbia University)
Platt Brennan C. (Brigham Young University)
Rampini Adriano (Duke University)
Ray, Debraj (New York University)
Reagan Patricia (Ohio State University)
Reich Michael (UC Berkeley)
Reuben Ernesto (Northwestern University)
Rizzo, Mario (New York University)
Roberts Michael (University of Pennsylvania)
Robinson David (Duke University)
Rogers Michele (Northwestern University)
Rotella Elyce (Indiana University)
Roussanov Nikolai (University of Pennsylvania)
Routledge Bryan R. (Carnegie Mellon University)
Ruud Paul (Vassar College)
Safford Sean (University of Chicago)
Samaniego Roberto (George Washington University)
Sandbu Martin E. (University of Pennsylvania)
Sapienza Paola (Northwestern University)
Savor Pavel (University of Pennsylvania)
Schaniel William C. (University of West Georgia)
Scharfstein David (Harvard University)
Seim Katja (University of Pennsylvania)
Seru Amit (University of Chicago)
Shang-Jin Wei (Columbia University)
Shimer Robert (University of Chicago)
Shore Stephen H. (Johns Hopkins University)
Siegel Ron (Northwestern University)
Smith David C. (University of Virginia)
Smith Vernon L.(Chapman University- Nobel Laureate)
Sorensen Morten (Columbia University)
Spatt Chester (Carnegie Mellon University)
Spear Stephen (Carnegie Mellon University)
Stevenson Betsey (University of Pennsylvania)
Stokey Nancy (University of Chicago)
Strahan Philip (Boston College)
Strebulaev Ilya (Stanford University)
Sufi Amir (University of Chicago)
Tabarrok Alex (George Mason University)
Taylor Alan M. (UC Davis)
Thompson Tim (Northwestern University)
Troske Kenneth (University of Kentucky)
Tschoegl Adrian E. (University of Pennsylvania)
Uhlig Harald (University of Chicago)
Ulrich, Maxim (Columbia University)
Van Buskirk Andrew (University of Chicago)
Vargas Hernan (University of Phoenix)
Veronesi Pietro (University of Chicago)
Vissing-Jorgensen Annette (Northwestern University)
Wacziarg Romain (UCLA)
Walker Douglas O. (Regent University)
Walker, Todd (Indiana University)
Weill Pierre-Olivier (UCLA)
Williamson Samuel H. (Miami University)
Witte Mark (Northwestern University)
Wolfenzon, Daniel (Columbia University)
Wolfers Justin (University of Pennsylvania)
Woutersen Tiemen (Johns Hopkins University)
Wu Yangru (Rutgers University)
Yue Vivian Z. (New York University)
Zingales Luigi (University of Chicago)
Zitzewitz Eric (Dartmouth College)
OCT 02, 2008 05:45 PM
SignalNoise said:
Hah! I think the entire department from my university signed it...
My understanding is that they were the ones who got the letter going.
That said, it's been signed by many other reputable people, for pretty good reasons.
That said, as bean notes, it's about a previous version of the Bill that a lot of other people had also criticised.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 05:47 PM
FearTheReaper said:
Yawn.
What pisses me off about a lot of you people is that-
1) This (the bailout) is a Bush administration idea (that the Treasury Secretary proposed),
2) Which is paying tax money out of the public till directly to ~ 95% very rich people or multi-million dollar corporations,
3) Which is paid by taxes which many of you have pointed out to me are regressive and paid disproportionately by the middle and lower classes,
4) On the basis that some Bush Administration and officials, and Wall Street bankers and investors *claim* of nonspecific dire consequences.
Do recall this is the Bu$h 43 administration, do lies about the Iraq war ring a bell?
Do you really believe Bu$h, Chaney & friends in this matter?
I have that letter above, by people who together probably have several thousand man-years experience as economists telling us this is a really bad idea.
What the fuck is your malfunction?
OCT 02, 2008 05:54 PM
petepolly said:
What the fuck is your malfunction?
My doohicky won't go in the thingamajig.

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 06:19 PM
TheFuckOffKid said:
SignalNoise said:
Hah! I think the entire department from my university signed it...
My understanding is that they were the ones who got the letter going.
That said, it's been signed by many other reputable people, for pretty good reasons.
That said, as bean notes, it's about a previous version of the Bill that a lot of other people had also criticised.
Which criticisms have not yet been properly addressed, and get a load of this that was part of the original bill::
reference
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
That was changed after much screaming to this on the bill that failed:
reference 2
Actions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this act shall be subject to chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code, including that such final actions shall be held unlawful and set aside if found to be arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or not in accordance with law.
To me the simple fact that they tried to get this in, is good enough reason to postpone the vote till after the election and after formal hearings are held and most especially AFTER BUSH IS OUT ON HIS ASS!

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 06:21 PM
FearTheReaper said:
petepolly said:
What the fuck is your malfunction?
My doohicky won't go in the thingamajig.
Put it in a toaster and plug that in the wall with a long extension cord then jump in a pool, turn it on just before you jump.
That will solve all your problems for you!

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 06:38 PM
A listing of some of the senators who opposed the bill and why. Of very divergent political views.
reference
A Curious Coalition Opposed Bailout Bill
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: October 2, 2008
WASHINGTON %u2014 Senators who voted against the $700 billion financial rescue plan make up one of the most curious coalitions of lawmakers ever to share common ground.
It included arch-conservative Republicans like Jim DeMint of South Carolina, liberal Democrats like Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Bernard Sanders, independent of Vermont, who is regarded as the Senate's resident socialist.
Taken together, the speeches of the 25 senators who voted against the plan on Wednesday amount to the Congressional equivalent of a dissenting opinion by the Supreme Court %u2014 impassioned, well reasoned, carefully articulated views on a landmark question of public policy that ultimately reflected the position of a minority of their fellow arbiters. If the bailout plan flops, they are the lawmakers who will be positioned to engage in a chorus of "I told you sos."
Their concerns spanned a panorama of issues: frustration over the lack of long-term regulatory changes in the legislation; alarm that $700 billion in taxpayer money would be at risk; anger that the Treasury secretary would not be subject to more stringent oversight; skepticism that executives of firms that seek help would face limits on their pay; and dismay that such an important bill was being rushed through Congress.
And, perhaps most pointedly, they expressed skepticism that the bailout proposal would be able to restore liquidity to the credit markets, prevent the collapse of additional banks and safeguard the economy from a long recession.
"This package is just a very costly Band-Aid for big banks that will do very little to help patients who need major surgery," Senator Michael B. Enzi, Republican of Wyoming, said in his speech on the Senate floor.
"Had Congress been able to use the regular committee process to craft a bipartisan and comprehensive legislation, the resulting bill may have gained my support," Mr. Enzi said. "Unfortunately, Congress has been pressured into passing this bill in two weeks by Treasury and Wall Street. A rescue plan of this scale requires a clear plan of action with a substantial chance of success. This plan has neither."
Some of the harshest criticism was leveled by Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Senate banking committee, who normally would have been his party's lead negotiator on the bailout bill but removed himself because he opposed the administration's proposal at its very core.
"The choice we faced was between pursuing an informed response or panic," Mr. Shelby said. "Unfortunately, we chose panic and are now about to spend $700 billion on something we have not examined closely. Yes, in the end, we will have 'done something.' At the same time, however, we will have done nothing to determine whether it will accomplish anything at all."
Mr. Shelby, in his speech, laid out a modern history of the American housing, mortgage and securitization markets, explaining how a bubble in home values was fueled by loose lending standards, exotic mortgage products and complex financial instruments, pushed by financial firms that were leveraged heavily to maximize profits.
And in many ways, he was already dishing out "I told you sos."
"We did not get to where we are today by accident, it was a path we chose," he said. "My warnings about the risk of basing credit decisions on well-intended social mandates rather than sound, fact-based underwriting were dismissed. My concerns about the inadequacy of the regulatory structure put in place in the financial modernization legislation went unacknowledged. My efforts to ensure that bank capital standards were designed to ensure safety and soundness, rather than industry concerns, were conducted largely alone."
Mr. Sanders, the Vermont independent, complained that the bill did not put any limits on the types of distressed debt the Treasury could buy, that it did not provide enough oversight, that it did not include adequate provisions to limit home foreclosures, that it did not really limit executive pay at firms that seek help.
"Under this bill, the C.E.O.'s and the Wall Street insiders will still, with a little bit of imagination, continue to make out like bandits," Mr. Sanders said.
He said the bill also did not do anything to prevent financial institutions from becoming "too big to fail," effectively leaving open the potential need for future bailouts.
Mr. Sanders also said he could not fathom giving Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. such broad authority over so much money.
"Maybe I am the only person in America who thinks so, but I have a hard time understanding why we are giving $700 billion to the secretary of the Treasury, who is the former C.E.O. of Goldman Sachs, which, along with other financial institutions, actually got us into this problem," he said. "Maybe I am the only person in America who thinks that is a little bit weird, but that is what I think."
He added: "This bill does not address the major economic crises we face %u2014 growing unemployment, low wages and the need to create decent-paying jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure and moving us to energy efficiency and sustainable energy."
In one of the more remarkable colloquies of the day's discourse, Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama, and one of the most conservative members of Congress, took to the floor to express solidarity with Mr. Sanders.
"I would like to say to Senator Sanders a couple things," Mr. Sessions said. "First, I think it is indeed breathtaking that this Senate would authorize basically one person with very little real oversight, a Wall Street maven himself, and allocate $700 billion in America's wealth, which I would have to say would be the largest single authorization of expenditure in the history of the Republic."
Mr. Sessions added: "So I have to say, fundamentally, I think we have not done a good enough job in creating an oversight mechanism that will work, so I am not going to vote for the bill; I am not."
Senator Bill Nelson, Democrat of Florida, said he opposed the bill because it did not do enough to help average Americans.
"This bill sends a message to Wall Street that if they play fast and loose in the name of short-term profits, the government will actually make up for their losses," Mr. Nelson said. "And the bill does very little to help individual homeowners. Until we stabilize the housing market, which is the underlying ability to restructure the economy from this crisis %u2014 until we stabilize the housing market, and until we stem the record number of foreclosures, our market simply is not going to improve."
Mr. Nelson continued: "The bottom line is, ultimately, this bill forces taxpayers to bail out investment banks that caused the crisis in the first place, and it does nothing to address the real problem, which is home foreclosures."

petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 02, 2008 08:04 PM
Adroitbeing said:
Clearly our dear friend petepolly has absolutely nothing invested in the outcome - except his tired devotion to libertarian principle.
If petepolly ran a business, he would be concerned about access to capital. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any meaningful deposits held in a mutual fund, where 25% of the value was wiped out in a single day, he would be concerned about shoring up confidence. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any role in sourcing funds for start ups in emerging technologies, some of which he espouses to support, he would be concerned that capital is too scarce. He doesn't.
If petepolly had any responsibility for the employment of 150,000 people in the greater New York area he would be concerned about those jobs and the effect of their loss will have on that economy. He doesn't.
If petepolly were responsible for a payroll, or for bringing new products to market, or for solving any serious business issue, he would be concerned about the lack of confidence and momentum in the market. He doesn't.
If petepolly were thinking about how he might put his child through college, he would be concerned about access to affordable loans. He doesn't
If petepolly felt any responsibility toward rebuilding and expanding the infrastructure of this country; improving roads and bridges, building new water treatment facilities, or improving the electricity grid, he would be worried about bond ratings and the market uptake of municipal bonds. He doesn't.
No, petepolly is simply a libertarian fanboy with a deep fascination for posting excerpts from Atlas Shrugged and quoting standard libertarian phlegm on an Internet chat board, which only helps to make it clear what responsibilities he actually believes are important.
And chicken little ran about claiming the sky is falling.







petepolly
Antarctica
August 2008
OCT 01, 2008 06:53 PM