Civil Service Discussion.

I'm watching this right now. Obama and McCain are both taking the opportunity to discuss volunteerism, civil service, military service, and how those things can make the world a better place.

It's live right now. I'm sure there will be youtube stuff later.

I should say, I'm watching it on PBS, but I can't seem to get a link through the PBS homepage.

I enjoyed Obama's peice. I didn't catch McCain.

He came across alright, and claimed he would appoint Obama to a cabinet level position for civil service. I think he was joking.

But it is strange that we don't have much available for civilian civil service. There's the Peace Corps, Americorps (like the Peace Corps, but you stay in the US), and not much else beyond local volunteering.

Hopefully, that will change.

I don't know if I like the idea of obligatory Service, like some countries have, but I do think there should be more organized options.

I don't think it should necessarily be compulsory but I think it should be encouraged and rewarded. I don't know if we could afford to fund a program similar to the GI Bill and make it available to people who commit to a certain period of civil service, but I think that would be a good start. Not only would the training in the civil service provide job skills, but the benefit could be used for higher education or certifications in a good field. And that's not just for kids coming out of high school, though I think it would make sense to recruit them more heavily. Anyone of just about any age can be involved.

That is exactly one of the questions they asked Obama: Should civil service volunteers recieve military service style benefits?

And I don't know if I'd go that far, but college credit, or replacing the Pell Grant program (I think that's a government grant program, right? I'm a bit out of date) with a Civil Service Education Grant program or something.

Considering the GOP openly mocked people who perform community service throughout their convention, its hard to believe he can show up to discussion of that issue and still pretend he has any integrity or decency.

They asked him that, and he claimed that was just Palin defending herself. I don't think anybody believed him, but that's what he said.

YOUTUBES!!!

McCain went first tonight

Part II

Part III

Part IV

Some of Obama's (I'm disappointed with where this person started, hopefully a better version will be available soon)
Part I

Part II

It wasn't just Palin. Rudy and Romney also belittled community organizers. It was clearly a talking point for them.

Not sure which was worse: the speakers taking the shots, or the people taking the bait.

Well I object and point out that it is unconstitutional. Involuntary servitude was eliminated by the 13th amendment.

Are you fucking serious? You're comparing Swiss Civilian Service style programs with slavery?

Others

You should see some of his other comparisons.

Letter of the law.

Oh and yes the draft would qualify too as far as I am concerned.

It is service, it is not voluntary that makes it involuntary servitude.

You know, I actually like the German model, as I understand it. Requiring that a person, upon graduating High School, either spends a year in the military or a year doing service work would be a positive thing. Not only would the volunteers learn some skills that would help them later in life, the experience of doing that sort of thing will give them an idea of how other people live, and also create a sense of bonding and, dare I say it, patriotism. All good things.

When I was in high school, there was a requirement instated for X amount of hours of community service in order to graduate. It didn't apply to my class ('96), but I believe it did to all those classes after us. I remember at the time being somewhat outraged by it for my younger friends.

Is community service a good idea? Absolutely. Should it be compulsory? Absolutely not.

Conscripts have their pros and cons when it comes to mandatory voluntary service.

While some will take it seriously and do what they can to get the job done, i would imagine that there are some that have absolutely no desire to be there what-so-ever and have the potential to drag down the moral of the people that had wanted to be there at one point.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit, actually. Pros and Cons to everything, I suppose. A better way to do it, might be to offer two years free tuition to a school for an initial one year of service. Two years of service gets you a full ride to a four years school. That way, the ones who DON'T want to be there wouldn't have to, but those who DO want to be there ... well they have incentive

I actually have an associate's degree in Criminal Justice, it was my plan to become a police officer.

I think the biggest thing that turned me off was the brash generalizations that we see even here on the boards. A cop in say (just for conversation sake) Sacramento, does something completely out of line, criminal and kills an innocent person.

While it peaks in Sacramento, you see people all the way on the other side of the nation react to this, and all the sudden all civil servants wearing a badger become an instantaneous asshole.

I also didn't like the politics of the game. That's basically what it is when it comes down to it. I am pretty surprised that McCain's son and Palin's son may actually see front line duty in Iraq, i would be highly impress if it actually happens.

But, the system, it has detrimental flaws in it. There were good, honest beat cops that the citizens loved, and they did a damn good job, and they never, ever got recognition for what they did. Meanwhile some other douchebag is related to the governor's sixth cousin twice removed and he pulled a favor and he is now a detective.

The political aspect of it bothered the hell out of me. There are officers that do a good job every day, they do what they're supposed to do, without hurting citizens, and even befriending citizens, that will never get the recognition they deserve because of the political douchebag, or the douchebag that decides to hurt an innocent citizen gets his fifteen minutes of fame.

It is without a doubt the most thankless job on the planet for some.

My school had that, too. It was a class requirement that each Senior complete 12 or 20 (don't remember the exact number, I graduated in '96, too) hours of community service. I spent two saturdays working on a Habitat House and it was called good. I didn't mind doing it at all.

Then I had a class in college, where one of the requirements was to spend an hour a week visiting someone in a nursing home, which would also be considered a form of community service.

Neither of those was a negative in any way. They were class requirements. And I don't see anything wrong with schools requireing a certain number of community service hours on their enterance requirements.

See if you can figure out if there is a difference between Service and servitude. I know the words are similar, but there is a difference.

Although, it is a subtle difference, so I'm not expecting much from you.

I like the idea of compulsory service. I think it has a lot of potential to broaden the mindset of a kid just coming out of mommy and daddy's. Forcing a teenager to stare in the face of poverty or devastation or suffering and then showing them that they can have a positive impact on those things by getting involved with organizations like Big Brothers Big Sister or the Red Cross or small local organizations could have a lasting positive effect on him or her.

That's what it did for me, albeit under other circumstances. I am by no means advocating the idea of compulsory military service. I think that making people join would more hurtful to the force than it would be helpful our youth.