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11/9/03

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s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 10, 2003 11:25 PM

here's something to look out for. the UN is considering proposing that they put the internet under their domain. while i'm usually a big fan of the UN, this strikes me as completely insane and unnecessary. like the atmosphere, the internet should be a resource, owned by nobody and run by no government or governmental body.

follow the link for the full article:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/10/2313229&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=153&tid=95&tid=99

i think it would be nice to see the UN take a more active role in making recommendations and helping to build the internet where it doesn't already exist, but neither of those require the internet to be under anyone's authority or jurisdiction.

it seems like this will get shelved anyway.

Flux

Flux

SUICIDEGIRL

Georgia, USA

NOV 10, 2003 11:30 PM

holy shit holy shit holy shit.

the reason why i have devoted my life to the Internet is that its natural anarchy epitomizes full freedom of information. i don't see logistically how this would function, and i'm sure it won't have any major bigbrotheresque features, but that doesn't keep me from worrying.

Keith

Keith

Oklahoma City, OK
August 2002

NOV 10, 2003 11:40 PM

Top Five Changes When the U.N. Takes Over the Internet

5. Kofi Annan changes his name to k0F1 4Nn@n.
4. Email inquiries now sent to Strong Bad.
3. War resolved through Counter Strike.
2. Microsoft given seat on the security council.

and:
1. Google searches take ten years, and find nothing.


Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

[Edited on Nov 10, 2003 by Keith]

Max16Characters

Max16Characters

Korea, Republic Of
March 2003

NOV 10, 2003 11:52 PM

Flux said:
holy shit holy shit holy shit.

the reason why i have devoted my life to the Internet is that its natural anarchy epitomizes full freedom of information. i don't see logistically how this would function, and i'm sure it won't have any major bigbrotheresque features, but that doesn't keep me from worrying.



Yeah, but it's that very freedom and anarchy that you love that scares the piss out of the people in charge of things. Dont' think for a moment that they'll be some benevolent paternal figure gently nudging the Internet along....it would be Big Brother in all his hideous glory. If someone--anyone-- "runs" the interenet, then that means things will not get done without their permission. Else, what's the point of running it?

Volkov

Volkov

San Antonio, TX
OLD SKOOL

NOV 11, 2003 12:02 AM

I think Kofi just wants access to unlimited porn.

Jeff_Fries

Jeff_Fries

Humptulips, WA
September 2003

NOV 11, 2003 01:44 AM

Be prepared to fill out one of these forms.

chrongod

chrongod

Guelph, ON
May 2003

NOV 11, 2003 01:50 AM

keith, you forgot to mention try the veal

koosh

koosh

Edmonton, AB
February 2003

NOV 11, 2003 02:22 AM

I think this is absolutely necessary. Right now the United States government controls the internet. Through their divisions and contractors, they handle everything from IP address allocations to rights to domain names. They also govern how the tier 1 internet providers can operate. This translates into one nation having control over what we consider an "international medium".

Currently the internet does NOT provide free international communication. Ultimately there is no guarantee for freedom of speech, or freedom to privacy.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 11, 2003 02:46 AM

kooshXIII said:
I think this is absolutely necessary. Right now the United States government controls the internet. Through their divisions and contractors, they handle everything from IP address allocations to rights to domain names. They also govern how the tier 1 internet providers can operate. This translates into one nation having control over what we consider an "international medium".



actually, none of that is true. everything you listed is controlled privately in both the US and in other countries, or by other governments. anyone can operate a tier 1 provider, and no government sets the rules for transit and peering between them. also, the US hardly has a monopoly on the tier 1 racket. by necessity, any populated country or region has their own tier 1 provider. (or several, depending on the population and their usage.) any notion of an internet "backbone" that is operated by one company or government is pure mythology.

ip address allocation is coordinated by an organization called ICANN, which specifically took over the role that was once (and is no longer) fulfilled by a US government contracted agency (IANA). ICANN, among other things, functions as a non-governmental coordinating body, and leaves the bulk of ip address allocation to other bodies in other countries. you can read all about this here:

http://icann.org/icp/icp-2.htm

other countries are free to assign domain names within their own top level domains, and they do. australia, for example, has its own .au hierarchy, which is controlled by australians. there is no US control of the .au hierarchy, just as there's no US control of .ca, .uk, .jp, etc.

the US government control of the internet is a thing of the past. personally, i think it's actually pretty amazing, and quite unusual, that a product of the US department of defense could go from a government research project, to something that anyone in any country can control and organize.

the only reasonable question left is, should a UN agency replace ICANN? i would answer 'no'. ICANN isn't perfect, but they have a difficult job, and there is no other organization with the expertise to pull everyone together and do what they're doing. i have serious doubts that any bureaucratic agency could replace ICANN without the internet falling into chaos.

[Edited on Nov 11, 2003 by s5]

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 11, 2003 02:50 AM

kooshXIII said:
Ultimately there is no guarantee for freedom of speech, or freedom to privacy.



yes there is - it's called encryption. which will become illegal the same day countries like china get to vote on transit policies between tier 1 providers.

Troll

Troll

I'm lost
August 2003

NOV 11, 2003 04:37 AM

This is an example of why I do not like the UN. I like some of the things about them. I think they can do some good. I think they could do better and need to do some serious restructuring. But there's a push for more and more control over things and some of those things strip away at a nation's sovereignty. Kofi actually scares me a little because he's pushed a little harder for more control for the UN in new arenas when there's still many programs that need tweaked and a few that need major overhauls as they aren't working as intended.

And, no. I'm not one of the black helicopter types. I have some concerns but none that lead to paranoia

koosh

koosh

Edmonton, AB
February 2003

NOV 11, 2003 07:53 AM

While ICANN is fundamentally a non-profit, non-governmental organization, they are still based in a single (USA) nation, and are subject to only that nation's operating laws and procedures, and base their own regulations on that country's law. From what I've heard (maybe this is old hat) ICANN has rejected all suggestions for international representatives and board members. An organization funded mainly on US dollars, located in California, with all American board members hardly does the internet justice, don't you think?

To date, any lawsuits formed on the ownership of .com/.net/.org domains take place in US courts through ICANN by the UDRP. ICANN accreditation is a step in the right direction as far as registration goes, but when it comes to things such as trademark ownership, there isn't currently a means of forming international laws. From what I gather this is what UN control would allow. The UN is the only governing body with the jurisdiction to create international laws, and while I normally wouldn't promote international law, the internet is one area where it is required.

koosh

koosh

Edmonton, AB
February 2003

NOV 11, 2003 07:56 AM

Oh and total ownership/control, fuck that- I just would like to see someone do something about international trademark infringements and cybercrimes

plonk

plonk

Campbell, CA
February 2003

NOV 11, 2003 08:05 AM

kooshXIII said:
Oh and total ownership/control, fuck that- I just would like to see someone do something about international trademark infringements and cybercrimes



In many countries, 'cybercrime' includes things like publically criticizing the local government and looking at pr0n. This would result in governments like Saudi Arabia and Communist China having direct influence over the rules that govern your use of the internet. Under no circumstances could this possibly be a good thing.

StarsJuggler

StarsJuggler

Italy
June 2003

NOV 11, 2003 10:09 AM

if you read the article it poses as arguments for UN control, the regulation of spam and criminal contents. I don't trust any governement to take control of the web and solve those issues.

I think those are mainly excuses to try and regulate the speech of freedom there is in europe and usa, wich may not be perfect, but it's surely better then most other countries in the world.

"unresolved disputes:...acceptable boundaries to freedom of expression." that's what they are after.

Mike11

Mike11

Titusville, FL
OLD SKOOL

NOV 11, 2003 12:37 PM

I give the UN control of anything. They nevr finish anything and fuck up just about everything they touch.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 11, 2003 03:02 PM

kooshXIII said:
From what I've heard (maybe this is old hat) ICANN has rejected all suggestions for international representatives and board members. An organization funded mainly on US dollars, located in California, with all American board members hardly does the internet justice, don't you think?



what you've "heard" is not correct. ICANN has been a global organization from its beginning. they have meetings all over the world, they select board members and other openings from all over the world, and they are funded by money from all over the world.

http://icann.org/general/background.htm

As ICANN's start-up phase progresses, its Board of Directors will be elected in part by a global membership of individual members of the Internet community, and in part by supporting organizations representing the business, technical, non-commercial and academic communities.

their current board is listed here. lots of non-american names and diplomats.

http://www.icann.org/general/abouticann.htm

here are some people who were recently nominated to various positions within ICANN. i can only count two americans in that list.

http://www.icann.org/committees/nom-comm/#2003Nominations


To date, any lawsuits formed on the ownership of .com/.net/.org domains take place in US courts through ICANN by the UDRP. ICANN accreditation is a step in the right direction as far as registration goes, but when it comes to things such as trademark ownership, there isn't currently a means of forming international laws. From what I gather this is what UN control would allow. The UN is the only governing body with the jurisdiction to create international laws, and while I normally wouldn't promote international law, the internet is one area where it is required.



no, domain disputes are settled by arbitration services located in various countries. by ICANN policy, domain disputes are not handled by courts.

http://icann.org/dndr/udrp/approved-providers.htm

also, the policy only applies to .com/.net/.org (traditionally US domains), not domains based in country codes, unless those countries have opted in:

http://icann.org/dndr/udrp/policy.htm

ICANN is a model that works. public input is a core part of ICANN, and literally anyone can participate. their role has been embraced by the internet community (rather than forced upon everyone, as a governmental body would do), and operates by consensus and voluntary agreements. i fail to see how the UN could possibly replace what they do, nor can i see any compelling advantage to do so.

matt_organic

matt_organic

United Kingdom
September 2003

NOV 11, 2003 03:15 PM

Better the UN than many others. It's likely that very little will actually change. Effective control by one body over the internet to the extent that it affects the day-to-day user would impress the hell out of me.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

NOV 11, 2003 03:35 PM

StarsJuggler said:
"unresolved disputes:...acceptable boundaries to freedom of expression." that's what they are after.



indeed. it's not hard to imagine how this could lead to china using an international body to force the UK to shut down tibet.com. for example.