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6/12/08

Leo Terrell demonstrates how to shut Sean Hannity down!

6/12/08

Moyers vs O'Reilly

6/12/08

90% of Americans will pay less taxes under Obama than McCain [2]

6/12/08

How much was your last fill up? [2]

6/12/08

Dennis Kucinich Bringing Articles of Impeachment Against President Bush [2]

6/12/08

Puppy throwing US soldier. [6]

6/11/08

$23 billion dollars "may have disappeared" in Iraq

6/11/08

FEMA never gave over $80mil in Goods to Katrina Victims

6/11/08

NEWS: China's New Olympic Rules [3]

6/11/08

Ron Paul to host parallel convention

6/10/08

I'm depressed, disgusted, and just down, give me something I can believe in please

6/10/08

Obama and the terrorist fist jab [2]

6/10/08

Generic Election '08 Video Posting Thread [2]

6/10/08

Hillary Supporters for John McCain - New Website!! [4]

6/9/08

Tourniquetsmiles

6/9/08

NEWS: November 6, 2008 [4]

6/9/08

Carbon dioxide and the price of fish

6/9/08

Free Obama Bumper Sticker from MoveOn.org [2]

6/9/08

Rush Limbaugh tears apart 10th grade essay on national syndicated radio show. For real. [3]

6/8/08

The great lies in US economic Data:the current the crisis of Capitalism [3]

6/8/08

NEWS: Fun with Cephalopods [4]

6/8/08

World war three to begin shortly [2]

6/8/08

The "Whitey" Bombshell?

6/8/08

6/8/08

Obama forces DNC to return $100K of special interest money

6/8/08

NEWS: Asshole Fuckface Roundup #49 [2]

6/7/08

NEWS: Mrs. Voorhees Was Decapitated [6]

6/7/08

Clinton space plan?

6/7/08

Lest we forget Normandy June 6, 1944

6/7/08

The Ultimate in Bad Taste or a bitter Clinton supporter?

6/5/08

Obama vows to stop Iran from having nuclear arms [3]

6/5/08

6/5/08

NEWS: Welcome to Canada, We (Used to) Have Rights.

6/5/08

More scary stories from Schneier on Security

6/5/08

NEWS: Vice is Nice: Top 10 Bad Things That Are Good For You [4]

6/5/08

NEWS: Great. We Have To Torture Us [2]

6/5/08

NEWS: Now It's Weird [5]

6/4/08

6/4/08

After Changing Her Mind about the Army and Being Prescribed Anti-Depressants, an East Chicago High School Student Sits in Camp Atterbury, Indiana

6/4/08

Harriet Christian: No Longer a Second-Class Citizen

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Obama vows to stop Iran from having nuclear arms

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LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 11:19 AM

"The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat," Obama said in a speech to a conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobby group.

"I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon - everything," he said to a standing ovation.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSWAT00959220080604

herodg

Vancouver, BC

December 2006

JUN 04, 2008 12:05 PM

I guess somebody forgot to mention that obama is also a member of CFR....making him as corrupt as dick cheney and bush.
Considering CFR's power....he's most likely gonna bomb maybe even nuke iran (if israel wants him to)
But i'm sure he's gonna get away with everything because he's a "democrat".

My solution would be....dissarm israel, UK, France, Germany, North Korea, US and i'm sure the plans for creating wmd's will cease in iran (that is if there's any plans for wmd's at all).
Or give everybody equal chance to have the weapons to defend themselves from Israel and US (the good ol' american way...protect what's yours).

What's funny is that US is even more pre-emptive about Iran than they were about Iraq.
With Iraq they claimed saddam had WMD's (if so then they should look no further than Donald Rumsfeld for selling it to him).
But with Iran it's like...WE KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE ANY WEAPONS....WE'RE GONNA BOMB THEM REGARDLESS.

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

JUN 04, 2008 12:18 PM

What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Groups that use those initials include:

Cullen Frost Bankers

Code of Federal Regulations

Council on Foreign Relations

silversoul7

Portland, OR

January 2008

JUN 04, 2008 12:21 PM

coyotemike said:
What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Council on Foreign Relations

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

JUN 04, 2008 12:26 PM

silversoul7 said:

coyotemike said:
What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Council on Foreign Relations

I see. I like the part about Conspiracy Theories, which always lends credence to someone's claims.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 12:28 PM

herodg said:
I guess somebody forgot to mention that obama is also a member of CFR....making him as corrupt as dick cheney and bush.
Considering CFR's power....he's most likely gonna bomb maybe even nuke iran (if israel wants him to)
But i'm sure he's gonna get away with everything because he's a "democrat".

My solution would be....dissarm israel, UK, France, Germany, North Korea, US and i'm sure the plans for creating wmd's will cease in iran (that is if there's any plans for wmd's at all).
Or give everybody equal chance to have the weapons to defend themselves from Israel and US (the good ol' american way...protect what's yours).

What's funny is that US is even more pre-emptive about Iran than they were about Iraq.
With Iraq they claimed saddam had WMD's (if so then they should look no further than Donald Rumsfeld for selling it to him).
But with Iran it's like...WE KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE ANY WEAPONS....WE'RE GONNA BOMB THEM REGARDLESS.

Actually, Obama is not actually a member of the CFR, however his wife is and foreign Policy advisor Brzezinski was a CFR director.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 12:32 PM

coyotemike said:

silversoul7 said:

coyotemike said:
What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Council on Foreign Relations

I see. I like the part about Conspiracy Theories, which always lends credence to someone's claims.

To believe that a think tank who's stated purpose is to shape US foreign policy, comprised of a who's who list of Bankers, Politicians, and corporate and industrial leaders, does not in fact have any influence over world affairs
is an example of delusional thinking.

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 04, 2008 12:39 PM

I think you guys have been living under a Bush administration for too long, if you think that his remarks mean that he's going to bomb Iran. When he says, "everything," he is not ruling out military action, but neither is he ruling out diplomacy or international pressure. He has to keep the threat of military action on the table, otherwise diplomacy becomes toothless. The man is a student of foreign policy, he understands how to deal with nations we disagree with without alienating ourselves from the rest of the world and making more enemies for ourselves by our own actions.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 12:45 PM

bean said:
I think you guys have been living under a Bush administration for too long, if you think that his remarks mean that he's going to bomb Iran. When he says, "everything," he is not ruling out military action, but neither is he ruling out diplomacy or international pressure. He has to keep the threat of military action on the table, otherwise diplomacy becomes toothless. The man is a student of foreign policy, he understands how to deal with nations we disagree with without alienating ourselves from the rest of the world and making more enemies for ourselves by our own actions.

They mean he has no problem catering to AIPAC.

silversoul7

Portland, OR

January 2008

JUN 04, 2008 12:45 PM

LSlice said:
To believe that a think tank who's stated purpose is to shape US foreign policy, comprised of a who's who list of Bankers, Politicians, and corporate and industrial leaders, does not in fact have any influence over world affairs is an example of delusional thinking.

To think they exert a major influence on foreign policy is not far-fetched. To say that they are an ideologically homogenous group who have the same opinions on foreign policy is stretching it, though. It's like accusing someone of being a homophobe because they're in Boy Scouts.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 12:49 PM

silversoul7 said:

LSlice said:
To believe that a think tank who's stated purpose is to shape US foreign policy, comprised of a who's who list of Bankers, Politicians, and corporate and industrial leaders, does not in fact have any influence over world affairs is an example of delusional thinking.

To think they exert a major influence on foreign policy is not far-fetched. To say that they are an ideologically homogenous group who have the same opinions on foreign policy is stretching it, though. It's like accusing someone of being a homophobe because they're in Boy Scouts.

Well, I certainly never claimed they were. Although I think in any orginization there is the "top down" effect. And the leadership of the CFR has always had a somewhat specific globalist philosophy.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 12:51 PM

To use your boyscouts example, while it is not accurate to say being a boy scout makes you a homophobe, it would be a fair assumption that an active member of the boyscouts adhere to the philosophy "always be prepared"

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH

February 2007

JUN 04, 2008 01:04 PM

coyotemike said:

silversoul7 said:

coyotemike said:
What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Council on Foreign Relations

I see. I like the part about Conspiracy Theories, which always lends credence to someone's claims.

I always thought an officially licensed SuicideGirls tinfoil hat would be an awesome addition to the store. Cheap and easy to make. Could sell it for quite a profit, FREE ENTERPRISE! at it's finest

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 01:12 PM

DevilsReject said:

coyotemike said:

silversoul7 said:

coyotemike said:
What exactly is CFR supposed to be?

Council on Foreign Relations

I see. I like the part about Conspiracy Theories, which always lends credence to someone's claims.

I always thought an officially licensed SuicideGirls tinfoil hat would be an awesome addition to the store. Cheap and easy to make. Could sell it for quite a profit, FREE ENTERPRISE! at it's finest

I hope you see what a bad precedent it forms where simply claiming any critic of any organization is a "conspiracy theorist" becomes a way to shut down any inquiry or debate into/over said organization.

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 04, 2008 01:35 PM

LSlice said:
I hope you see what a bad precedent it forms where simply claiming any critic of any organization is a "conspiracy theorist" becomes a way to shut down any inquiry or debate into/over said organization.

I agree that that is a dangerous path to go down, however, by the same token, I hope that you can see how a series of logical leaps can discredit a critic's argument. Going from Obama speaking before AIPAC about the potential threat posed by Iran and the desire to use every possible means to defuse that threat, to an interpretation of those statements to indicate a plot for military conflict, based on an unsourced claim of Obama's wife's participation in an organization, and a criticism of that organization which itself stretches one well-documented but innocuous factor into a nefarious plot without any real evidence leaves a multitude of holes for anyone reading those leaps of logic with a critical eye.

The unflinching certainty with which those statements are made, and the refusal to question or backup with some evidence those leaps; to fill those gaps, gives such a reader the impression that the person making those statements isn't being intellectually honest either with himself or with us.

In short, if you're going to make statements that run counter to reason and to all outward appearances, you're going to have to document each logical leap to draw a path from point A to point Z.

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 04, 2008 01:43 PM

LSlice said:

bean said:
I think you guys have been living under a Bush administration for too long, if you think that his remarks mean that he's going to bomb Iran. When he says, "everything," he is not ruling out military action, but neither is he ruling out diplomacy or international pressure. He has to keep the threat of military action on the table, otherwise diplomacy becomes toothless. The man is a student of foreign policy, he understands how to deal with nations we disagree with without alienating ourselves from the rest of the world and making more enemies for ourselves by our own actions.

They mean he has no problem catering to AIPAC.

Yes, that was a part of it, but forgive me for interpreting this statement...

herodg said:
I guess somebody forgot to mention that obama is also a member of CFR....making him as corrupt as dick cheney and bush.
Considering CFR's power....he's most likely gonna bomb maybe even nuke iran (if israel wants him to)

...as indicating a belief that Obama's comments mean he's going to bomb Iran.

Surely you can't be so dense as to not be able to see that when it's written in plain, clear English.

FearTheReaper

NEWSWIRE

I'm lost

JUN 04, 2008 01:49 PM

We call that a BeanDown around here.

LostLucy

USA

December 2006

JUN 04, 2008 02:06 PM

herodg said:

My solution would be....dissarm israel, UK, France, Germany, North Korea, US and i'm sure the plans for creating wmd's will cease in iran (that is if there's any plans for wmd's at all).
Or give everybody equal chance to have the weapons to defend themselves from Israel and US (the good ol' american way...protect what's yours).

Good luck with that.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 02:18 PM

To Bean:

I did not bring up the CFR. Herodg did.

As far as connections to the CFR, I would say the point is less then Obama is "in" on some sinister plot, as he and his people are very much a part of the poltical insider's club, just like McCain and Clinton.

The AIPAC speech, in my mind, does not mean he is planning on attacking Iran, but rather that his anti-war rhetoric is, well, rhetoric.

Coyotemike

USA

May 2006

JUN 04, 2008 02:21 PM

LSlice said:
To Bean:

I did not bring up the CFR. Herodg did.

As far as connections to the CFR, I would say the point is less then Obama is "in" on some sinister plot, as he and his people are very much a part of the poltical insider's club, just like McCain and Clinton.

The AIPAC speech, in my mind, does not mean he is planning on attacking Iran, but rather that his anti-war rhetoric is, well, rhetoric.

A political insiders' club . . . like the Senate?

bean

STAFF

Los Angeles, CA

JUN 04, 2008 02:28 PM

LSlice said:
I did not bring up the CFR. Herodg did.

No, he made the leap and you supported it. He is the conspiracy theorist we were all referring to, you just backed up his assertions with further leaps. I'm not inclined to point them out to you, but if pressed, I will.

As far as connections to the CFR, I would say the point is less then Obama is "in" on some sinister plot, as he and his people are very much a part of the poltical insider's club, just like McCain and Clinton.

That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, and his loose association with the group was brought up as support for the belief that he would bomb Iran.

The AIPAC speech, in my mind, does not mean he is planning on attacking Iran, but rather that his anti-war rhetoric is, well, rhetoric.

Fine, let's talk about that, then. Obama's "anti-war rhetoric" was never "anti-war" in the first place.

From his remarks in 2002:

Barack Obama said:

I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

[...]

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

He has been more consistent on Iraq, on the use of the military, and on war in general than almost all other politicians on the national stage, including his statements to AIPAC.

silversoul7

Portland, OR

January 2008

JUN 04, 2008 02:30 PM

coyotemike said:

LSlice said:
To Bean:

I did not bring up the CFR. Herodg did.

As far as connections to the CFR, I would say the point is less then Obama is "in" on some sinister plot, as he and his people are very much a part of the poltical insider's club, just like McCain and Clinton.

The AIPAC speech, in my mind, does not mean he is planning on attacking Iran, but rather that his anti-war rhetoric is, well, rhetoric.

A political insiders' club . . . like the Senate?

pwned

LostLucy

USA

December 2006

JUN 04, 2008 02:33 PM

I haven't seen Obama sing

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran

like McCain.

Rather, I have repeatedly heard him talk about using diplomacy -- communcating with our adversaries, using rational persuasion where possible, and economic sanctions where necessary.

And as Bean said

He has to keep the threat of military action on the table, otherwise diplomacy becomes toothless.

motorfirebox

Pittsburgh, PA

March 2004

JUN 04, 2008 02:36 PM

herodg said:
My solution would be....dissarm israel, UK, France, Germany, North Korea, US and i'm sure the plans for creating wmd's will cease in iran (that is if there's any plans for wmd's at all).

yes, and maybe if we clap hard enough, we can keep Tinkerbell alive.

LSlice

Montclair, NJ

December 2007

JUN 04, 2008 02:39 PM

coyotemike said:

LSlice said:
To Bean:

I did not bring up the CFR. Herodg did.

As far as connections to the CFR, I would say the point is less then Obama is "in" on some sinister plot, as he and his people are very much a part of the poltical insider's club, just like McCain and Clinton.

The AIPAC speech, in my mind, does not mean he is planning on attacking Iran, but rather that his anti-war rhetoric is, well, rhetoric.

A political insiders' club . . . like the Senate?

Well, I would say for example, Senator Mike Gravel, would not be part of the current political establishment, whereas Obama would.

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