John Hagee Interview

Remember John Hagee? He's that nutjob pastor McCain asked for an endorsement, and blamed Hurricane Katrina on a Gay Pride parade that was going to be held in New Orleans at about the same time as the storm hit.

Well, the interview that brought out that Katrina quote also brings out his belief that all Christians should support Israel because the return of Jews to Israel is a sign of the forthcoming Apocalypse, and the Second Coming.

Good choice o' pastors, there, McCain.

*listen with caution, the crazy might be contagious

I was listening to that at work today. What a fucking nut job.

Also, Terry Gross is awesome.

the sad part is, it actually is a good choice for McCain. it's kind of scary how many far-right conservatives believe that Israel's re-establishment as a nation is a sign of the end times. considering that McCain has taken fire from those same far-right conservatives for not being far enough right...

Yeah to be fair, he isn't McCain's pastor. He is a pastor who McCain campaigned for and received an endorsement from. Him and his entire sack full of fuck ass crazy, I imagine.

Yeah, and Jeremiah right isn't Obama's current pastor, and hasn't been for awhile, but that doesn't seem to matter. I figure, tit for tat time.

Tit for tat is rarely a good idea when you're dealing with some of the more negative tactics of the GOP. Isn't part of the point of voting Democrat is that they're a measurable alternative to the GOP?

Also, it's demonstrably false since Hagee is not and never was McCain's pastor, whereas Wright at least was Obama's pastor for two decades. I don't think it ought to be an issue, other than the fact that McCain called many of the same people he's been cozying up to 'agents of intolerance'. If it is an issue, though, we should at least try and get the facts right, yes?

oh, don't get me wrong--i'm not saying that to be fair. McCain, by seeking Hagee's approval, is pandering to a group of people whose actions i generally find despicable, and whose beliefs i--a well-studied hobbyist of the bible, though certainly no scholar--find ridiculous. McCain is doing the responsible thing, in terms of keeping his party together; he's doing the smart thing, in terms of his candidacy. none of that touches the fact that he's doing the wrong thing.

Yes, I know Hagee was never McCain's pastor. That isn't the point. Obama broke away from Wright; McCain activly seeked Hagee. Obama denounced Wright's extreme views; McCain gives the impression he agrees with Hagee's views.

And there's nothing wrong with a little dirty politics. . . as long as the other side starts it.

I sincerely hope Obama never mentions the name Hagee, but that shouldn't stop his supporters from pointing out what sort of nutjob McCain has turned to in order to gain the support of religious folks.

Exactly. I applaud. If you want the high moral ground, you have to be more moral than your opponent.

i'm not sure it's dirty politics to question what's coming out of the pulpit of a guy a candidate actually asked for an endorsement.

Fair call

I think mention of Hagee should be reserved as a retaliation tactic: "Wright looks bad? Try this guy..."

Somebody already did

hah. i like the wing nut. hey, that's a nut on top of a nut! OMG HOMASEXUIL

ah, college humor.

Okay, how hard is it to say everything else that everyone said so far? If you have a point, say your point, don't make one up. Bring up that McCain sought his endorsement, by all means, it is a political issue since he's using Hagee and his sack full of fuck ass crazy and his congregation to win voters over.

The quoted comment is what I take exception to. I don't believe that bringing up valid concerns such as 'why is McCain seeking Hagee's endorsement?' is dirty politics. I do believe making a knowingly false claim that Hagee is McCain pastor's for the sake of hoping to score political points is dirty and akin to the campaign the Swiftboat Vets ran against Kerry. If you find that sort of politics- regardless of who starts it- acceptable, well by all means, I guess, lie your ass off or whatever.

i didn't read coyotemike's post as stating that Hagee is or was McCain's pastor, though i suppose the sentence "Good choice o' pastors, there, McCain" could be interpreted that way. i interpreted it as "Good choice o' pastors to ask for support from", myself, not "Good choice o' pastors to attend church under."

Do you want an apology, or should I simply fall upon my sword in shame?

Like a failed Yakuza just the tip of your left little finger will do. Don't let it happen again.

Seeing as the Hagee endorsement was an uproar at the end of February, how do you determine who started what first ? By what metric ?
Wasn't it around the beginning of March that Jeremiah Wright started to make headlines ? And who started putting it out there ?

I think it's really neither here nor there. They are each fairly distinctive issues. Both uniquely relevant or irrelevant, as the case may be, depending on what exactly you are addressing.

It would be nice if Obama would stick to his stated principals and not engage it the mud slinging of issues like this. It seems he has so far, I think ?
The party on the other hand made about as much stink about it as they could.

The bottom line is it really shouldn't be that big an issue. Crazy pastor. Point and laugh or join his flock.

geeze, long post . . .

has anyone read Matt Taibbi's Rolling Stone article where he goes undercover in Hagee's church?

it's truly fucked up, and kind of terrifying...

the thing is, McCain didn't just allow Hagee access to the political process (something that, i agree, everyone should be allowed). he wasn't neutral on Hagee's participation. McCain actively sought out Hagee and asked Hagee to endorse McCain as a candidate. McCain purposefully made Hagee's particular brand of religion part of his presidential platform.

understand, there's nothing wrong with that in terms of what a candidate should or should not do. candidates request endorsements from religious figures all the time. but which figure a candidate voluntarily associates him/herself with is quite important, and it's perfectly okay to attack candidate on such grounds. Hagee, and McCain by association, believes things that i do not believe. the president i'm going to vote for is going to be the one whose beliefs most closely match my own (or, at least, the one that convinces me that their beliefs most closely match my own). therefore, the beliefs a candidate chooses to associate himself with are very much fair game.

Oh! Oh! The shame one! No- wait- door number two!

Listen, man, you made your point, I made mine. No one needs to commit seppuku over it. It's called agreeing to disagree.

Actually, I would agree with you that we need to stay away from the dirty politics, and am so glad Obama has stayed away. Really I wasn't trying to imply that he was McCain's pastor.

But ooooh, it would be so funny to watch McCain try to either justify Hagee's beliefs, or justify dumping someone whose endorsement he had sought.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I agree completely. The thing is, the type of persona that Hagee represents have been a big part of the Republican party for a long time.
Who is Pat Robertson endorsing ? Rod Parsley ? Doug Coe ? Reverend Moon ? Rick Scarborough ? How about Mike Huckabee ? He'd fit in pretty well with most of this crowd.
I could hardly care less honestly. Christ almighty, I hope I don't have to watch stupid clips of all of them before November.
It is a tiny bit of the issues that I would base my opinion on, certainly not above scrutiny, but it's not a "gotcha" moment.

These folks are representative of big blocks of people. Politicians will pander to them. They aren't going to snub their noses at like 20 or thirty percent of the entire population because they don't agree with their religious beliefs. And I don't see holding politicians responsible for the beliefs of those who support them as particularly valid.
It's a non-issue. The religious right can vote for who they believe supports their issues, and I am free to do the same. It's all good.

Until they start mandating Creationism in biology class and outlawing dancing. Then, it's on.

i view it as being somewhat important--not as important as, say, his stance on the 'war' in Iraq, but important enough to be a factor--because it's indicative of whose values he's likely to champion. i'm not going to vote for McCain anyway, but if i were, this would be something that would make me question my choice, and it's certainly another reason for me to hope he doesn't win. in an indirect way, a vote for McCain is a vote for Creationism in biology class and outlawing dancing.

This has been the biggest Republican base for a long, long time. I guess what I'm saying is, I view it more as a reflection of the Republican Party than of McCain in particular.