Islam vs. West/Israel

2 Points of interest. 2 opposing articles. Notice which one was reprimanded and which one was not. Also, who is telling the truth if any and what are your feelings about both?

news bit #1:

Malaysian prime minister refuses to back down from speech in which he said Jews rule the world
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/17/international1303EDT0586.DTL

news bit #2:
General: We're in a 'Spiritual Battle' Says 'Christian army' fights Satan, Muslims worship 'idol'

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspent173498203oct17,0,2933140.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines


[Edited on Oct 17, 2003 by 8Bit]

[Edited on Oct 17, 2003 by 8Bit]

(Hangs head in shame!)
Oh my poor white brother...

Both have apparently received a reprimand. Check the board look at the links within the posts

The most frightening and awesome aspect of the whole israel palestenian trouble, is that yesser arafat has not represented his own people for almost all of his reign as the leader of the PLO. What is even more tragic is that the majority of the palestenians are dying from things such as dysentary starvation and the lack of access to basic human needs.

Whats worse is that israel is a special weapon not inspection zone. It has its own secret nuclear reactor and a stockpile of over 200 warheads.

Whats even more worse is that innocent people die every day in that part of the world, beatiful boys and girls just like you and me who were on a date, in a movie theater, on a bus or where ever.

And what is even even more worse is that its a cycle, and one that cannot be broken with the traditional military mentality of the average man. Jesus died for speaking the truth, so did all the other prophets from all the other religions who revealed the real intentions behind the tyrannical actions of their leaders. I need not list the endless tome of dead truth sayers.

But what frightens me most, is that the cycle escalates, we have atomics, thermo atomics, nerve agents, ems, ion, laser, and 'conventional weapons' to destroy our own kind, and that it is only a matter of time before the world lights its self on fire, and no matter the period in our horrible history, there will always be enough oxygen to fan the devastation.

I am german/russian/ukranian. In WWII the german side tried to kill the other part of me, and then the other part tried to kill the other part back. My father is a fashist and i had to go against my own honorable culture to overcome the cycle of devastation and sadism.

I refuse to beleive that this is the best that the torch bearers of reason can do. I am only one young man, but i am ought to slowly through art and philosophy am trying to change the horrors all round me. Terrorism, Revolution, and rapid social change only leave broken hearts and dying empires. People worldwide must learn to understand that the fate of our civilization is like a running train, it does not stop or go on a dime. Similar is the situation in the middle east. The violence continues because no one listens to the most disenfrenchised in the matter. The PALESTENIANS.

We all need food, shelter, clothes, and other human beings. The dienfrenchised have none of that, and they are willing to die because an organism goes into defencive aggression mode when his basic necessities are threatened. There is also only soo much energy that this world can give us to fullfill our basic and most important needs. Anything beyond that is fueled either by greed, narcissism, sadism, and more greed.

The most frightening and awesome aspect of the whole israel palestenian trouble, is that yesser arafat has not represented his own people for almost all of his reign as the leader of the PLO. What is even more tragic is that the majority of the palestenians are dying from things such as dysentary starvation and the lack of access to basic human needs.

Whats worse is that israel is a special weapon not inspection zone. It has its own secret nuclear reactor and a stockpile of over 200 warheads.

Whats even more worse is that innocent people die every day in that part of the world, beatiful boys and girls just like you and me who were on a date, in a movie theater, on a bus or where ever.

And what is even even more worse is that its a cycle, and one that cannot be broken with the traditional military mentality of the average man. Jesus died for speaking the truth, so did all the other prophets from all the other religions who revealed the real intentions behind the tyrannical actions of their leaders. I need not list the endless tome of dead truth sayers.

But what frightens me most, is that the cycle escalates, we have atomics, thermo atomics, nerve agents, ems, ion, laser, and 'conventional weapons' to destroy our own kind, and that it is only a matter of time before the world lights its self on fire, and no matter the period in our horrible history, there will always be enough oxygen to fan the devastation.

I am german/russian/ukranian. In WWII the german side tried to kill the other part of me, and then the other part tried to kill the other part back. My father is a fashist and i had to go against my own honorable culture to overcome the cycle of devastation and sadism.

I refuse to beleive that this is the best that the torch bearers of reason can do. I am only one young man, but i am ought to slowly through art and philosophy am trying to change the horrors all round me. Terrorism, Revolution, and rapid social change only leave broken hearts and dying empires. People worldwide must learn to understand that the fate of our civilization is like a running train, it does not stop or go on a dime. Similar is the situation in the middle east. The violence continues because no one listens to the most disenfrenchised in the matter. The PALESTENIANS.

We all need food, shelter, clothes, and other human beings. The dienfrenchised have none of that, and they are willing to die because an organism goes into defencive aggression mode when his basic necessities are threatened. There is also only soo much energy that this world can give us to fullfill our basic and most important needs. Anything beyond that is fueled either by greed, narcissism, sadism, and more greed.

Hey Troll - could you post the links your talking about in reference to the reprimand? I couldn't find them in the article about the Lt. General, but I did hear on the news about the Malasian PM issueing a mild retraction to the tune of "Just wanted to tell the Muslims to remain strong..."

These are both of more than just a little concern - I'm not terribly surprised by either, but the comments from the Boykin concerned me the most. We are treading a fine line between a semblance of righteousness (not proven) and simple thuggery, and comments like this from people in charge are certainly not making the case that we are there for humanitarian reasons. Some of the "satanists" that he refered to are the people we are supposedly there to help, and the facts are that the average Joe American seems to share the gist of those beliefs. How long untill we open internment camps for Muslims simply because we consider them to be the enemy, and how long after that untill we make our very own self-fullfilling prophecy and all Muslims become enemies of America because America has shown itself to be an enemy of them...

I aggree with Bean - why make enemies of ALL muslims, including the local Muslim nationals? Well, I suppose we could always tell them to convert to Christianity or deport them ... Somehow I don't think Guantanamo Bay base is big enough for all Muslim Americans, but I'm certain that our local fascists can think of something to do with them...

I dont agree with Marley at all and I hope he represents the minority. The general called Muslims, "Satan" -- straight up. This is not disguised or embedded in double talk, its an outright slam. He also claimed they were "idol woshippers". Is it me or is this an example of the continued stupidity emanating from the mouths of American higher ups for years. The policy makers all seem to share in the same ignorance of Islam and continue the display ever growing signs of complete detatchment from the rest of the world and the impact of their own words. The word Islam means "peace", literally and it is wholly monotheistic from the ground up. Muhammad destroyed the idols in Mecca at the location of the yearly Hajj. One god is the basis of the whole ideology. Not "their" God or an "arab god",etc.

Marley said, "...tell them to convert...or deport them" or any number of uses of the word "Them", refer to his sentance (mainly implying a violent means which is equally as disturbing). The mere fact the General believes there are other Gods next to "his" indicates he is the idol worshipper. In a monotheistic framework, there is only one god. Technically if I believe in one God I cannot concieve of others, apparantly this General can. Meanwhile, forgive me for being so bold but Marleys got the "crusader" mentality. "Onward Christian soldier!", type bullshit. The crusader mentality is a disease on both sides and it is the mentality of the extreme right wing who have produced characters like Jimmy Fallwll who decreed that the Prophet of Islam was "a terrorist." Christian fundamentalists have created this idea of "new crusaders" and it's seems to be spreading into mainstream America through the influence of Falwells ministries, Bush and Generals like Boykin.

The Malaysian PM said in response to the west lashing out at him for being anti-semetic, "I think it's unfair and a manifestation of bias against Muslims that there are such attitudes that you cannot criticise the Jews without being called anti-Semitic," Dr Mahathir said. "On the other hand, Jews and others can call 'Muslims terrorist'. There are other terrorists such as Protestant, Catholic, Hindu and Buddhist terrorists, and yet when they commit acts of terror, nobody ever take into consideration their religion.

That statement is golden. Look at the whole Mel Gibson Passion ordeal where he makes this movie about Jesus and implies the Jews killed Jesus. Oh how we haven't heard the end of that one from the ADL. The twisted reality of it is that the Jews did kill Jesus, but at the time Jesus was a Jew. So what are they arguing about really? The debate is really a power play; the Jews just don't want any accusation made against tham about anything. Bottom line. Which brings us back to some of these "inflammatory comments" from the Malaysian PM, "Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them." These are the words that seems to be getting ppl pissed off but why? Why should these words piss ppl off so much unless it was true,


Mahathir denies being anti-Semitic, hits out at media double standards
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/southeastasia/view/52871/1/.html

I am not Christian, but knowing he is, and that he was speaking to Christians, in a Christian place of worship.... His comments don't shock me at all when taken in context.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/18/international/middleeast/18GENE.html?ex=1067054400&en=584d9822bf751297&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

I know it may sound a little far fetched, but generals don't do that unless pushed to, trust me

And don't get me wrong. I'm far from defending the moron. I'm merely pointing out that morons from all races, sexes, religions and military forces excluding the Marines ( haha I'm so fucking biased there) have what we always called the "10 %" 10% worjks in most equations really. Look at the poulace of the US then look at the criminal element of the US. It's roughly 10%. I did not say violent criminals I said criminals, to include all crimes.

well in the Marines we considered our 10 percenters to be the criminals and generally moronic. This guy falls into the latter category. But then he's not a Marine so he's already handicapped in that aspect. haha

a small tangent, in WWII over 70% of soldiers would just lie in trenches and not fire their weapons on the battlefield. This was attributed to their human resistances to take life. The American government fixed this a little bit by psychologically breaking down children when they go to the marines, and then making killers out of them while paying for their education. I donÕt know of a more cruel fate, other then missionaries installing running water in primitive villages and healing their sick, only with the promise that they will give up their paganism or whatever for the love of Christ

put that in your pipe and smoke it

that movie, full metal jacket, at least the first hour of it

is pretty fuckin right on

my sister is a marine and SHE PAID for her education with multiple fractures, pulls, strains, and im not even going to go into the mental conditioning and the side effects of that

what else is awesome about US demographics is that 1.7% of the population speak german, and the same amount of the total american citizen population is in prison, thats pretty much shows you where my next port of call is

a small tangent, in WWII over 70% of soldiers would just lie in trenches and not fire their weapons on the battlefield. This was attributed to their human resistances to take life. The American government fixed this a little bit by psychologically breaking down children when they go to the marines, and then making killers out of them while paying for their education. I donÕt know of a more cruel fate, other then missionaries installing running water in primitive villages and healing their sick, only with the promise that they will give up their paganism or whatever for the love of Christ

put that in your pipe and smoke it

that movie, full metal jacket, at least the first hour of it

is pretty fuckin right on

my sister is a marine and SHE PAID for her education with multiple fractures, pulls, strains, and im not even going to go into the mental conditioning and the side effects of that

what else is awesome about US demographics is that 1.7% of the population speak german, and the same amount of the total american citizen population is in prison, thats pretty much shows you where my next port of call is

People who say idiotic things like that never cease to amaze me.

Which brings us back to some of these "inflammatory comments" from the Malaysian PM, "Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them." These are the words that seems to be getting ppl pissed off but why? Why should these words piss ppl off so much unless it was true,

Taken from THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, I do believe this is what we're discussing ppl.

Protocol 7:

UNIVERSAL WAR

3. We must be in a position to respond to every act of opposition by war with the neighbors of that country which dares to oppose us: but if these neighbors should also venture to stand collectively together against us, then we must offer resistance by a universal war.

4. The principal factor of success in the political is the secrecy of its undertakings: the word should not agree with the deeds of the diplomat.

5. We must compel the governments of the GOYIM to take action in the direction favored by our widely conceived plan, already approaching the desired consummation, by what we shall represent as public opinion, secretly promoted by us through the means of that so-called "Great Power" - THE PRESS, WHICH, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS THAT MAY BE DISREGARDED, IS ALREADY ENTIRELY IN OUR HANDS

WHOLE TEXT: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

Get your antisemetic conspiracy bullshit off the SG boards.

Fuck, this whole thing (everything related to middle east arguements) is some 4000 years in the making, and after that amount of time I say fuck it. If people can't get along thenlet em not get along, bust a libertarian pov, but Israel is cool no matter what anyone thinks just cause they can fuck shit up. Also, they killed Saddam's Nuclear plant, so kudos for them, they can have a nuclear power plant just for that.

I usually stay far far away from these political discussions, but for your info:

The Protocols of Zion are a forgery, in case you've been living in a cave.

If something must be true because it pisses off the group referred to, then by your logic, what General Boykin said about Muslims _must_ be true, since it upsets them. Correct?

If they give up their religion for running water, which they've lived without for a long time, or for being healed, after living with (with as in, alongside) sickness for a long time, then that just means their prioirties aren't in the right place.bamf

[Edited on Oct 18, 2003 by Sexdwarf]

How about for once anti-semetism be synonymous with Islamophobia. Is it unconstitutional to acknowledge the feats of Islamic history and its people. I hear and see nothing about the fruits of Islam and it's tolerance to Jews prior to a Zionist controlled, violently predisposed Israel. It's a fact, ppl hate Muslims primarily because of unbalanced coverage of the situation and blatant ignorance of Islamic history -- do you know anything "good" about Muslims?. Bottom line is that moderate Muslims ain't the oppressor right now. They are in defensive mode against a rash of unbenounced attacks against them courtesy of black sheep malcontents like Bin Laden. Also, nearly 1 million Crimean Tatar muslims were part of the Stalinist holocaust of 1944, a country that is now entirely secular Russian. Crimea was also the first choice for the location of Israel however Stalin did not comply as he wanted the paradise for the "motherland". The whole idea of a first choice and second choice for occupation astounds me as does the idea that all of Muslim-kind are to blame for the world's problems (Boykin refers to Muslims as Satan).

And also since we're on the topic ppl decide to "stay far far away from", yes the Protocols have been stated as being "anti-semetic propaganda" but from where I stand the NY TIMES and just about every other new source can be accused of "islamophobia". Yet, where are the rabble rouseers on the muslim side saying the NY TIMES is a fraud? "Hamas takes responsibility for..." and "Islamic Jihad is responsible for...", have you read these headlines? Its the stuff of journalistic wombats who get AP and REUTERS printouts generated by a totally controlled Zionist biased media. What does "Zionist based media" mean? Well, in a nutshell, it means what Mahatir was stating as fact.

Logically, if CNN says or acts "islamophobic", it is not acknowledged. At times, it even slips through the minds of the viewers and fills up their rolodex of Islamic information, of which there was very little in the first place. In the end, creating and spreading misinformation and hatred likened to the comments of General Boykin. Mahatir did not state that Jews were the devil. How inconceivably elementary a statement that would be. Only Wahabs say dumb generalizations like that. It's a statement a 3rd grader would make influenced by his hateful parent at a dinner table who entertains the family with thoughts like, "those damn niggers!"

listen, genius, the protocols of the learned elders of zion is generally recognized by the most learned, intelligent people worldwide to be complete horseshit fabricated by holocaust deniers, white separatists, neo-nazis, etc. anyone who actually believes that it is what it claims to be is an ignorant fool (this means you).

yes, discrimination exists toward muslims, but jackasses like yourself only make it worse by acting exactly like you are stereotyped to act. i suggest you read some Nasr, Abdalati, or any other eminent Islamic scholar and educate yourself as to the realities of Islamic philosophy and theology.

8Bit,

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery created by the czarist Russian government of the 1870s. It was exposed as such more than 80 years ago, but not before that hateful lie created much death and suffering. The people who continue to espouse it are racists and antisemites who are looking to justify their warped viewpoint.

I am extremely unhappy that you have referenced it here.

The BBC is so "Zionist-biased" that the Israeli government is now refusing to give them interviews!

The general was reprimanded, you ignorant little insect. But of course, admitting that would undermine your little remix of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Why hasn't this bigotted little twerp gotten zotted yet?