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D'OH!

-TM

What about the government work is a big deal ?
Are you suggesting that the government should be awarding contracts after a review of the business owners religious beliefs ?
I'm sure you're not. But I've seen this reported quite a bit and I don't understand the hype on that.
Is it just to add to the sensationalism or is there some grounds for issue ?
Seriously, 1.7 million over 9 years for aircraft parts is really not a very consequential contract. Wouldn't you agree ?

Illegal activity on the part of individuals or of the business ?
Of course I have no idea what the structure of their business is/was. But I would imagine that actions of individuals like Jeffs or members of the group would be insulated from the business activity unless directly related.

It is a bit interesting that they are involved with such a high tech industry though. But that juxtaposition is about the only point I can find relevant to the reporting of their business contracts.

Thank you, that is exactly what I have been thinking the whole time I was reading this. I don't care if everyone there is having a grand ol time men, women, and children included. They live in a coutry where it is against the law to have sex with people of the age that they are having sex with. In addition those who are breaking that law are doing their best to continue to promote it within their organization. Which is flat out a crime. It has nothing to do with wether or not the mothers and children will be able to handle reintegration into our society or not. They are americans who under our laws have been harmed. The men who have harmed them need to be pursued with the full power of the law, and we as a society need to do our best to help restore the lives of our violated kinsmen to normal.

This just makes me so angry

This is a prime example why all religions are dangerous. When you get a person to believe that there is a magic man in the sky that creates, controls and knows everything, will cast you in a lake of fire (or similar such eternal torture, depending on your particular fairy tale's beliefs) if you don't do what he or his "representatives" say, you pretty much have total control over this person, and can get them to do or believe anything. Atheists don't kill each other over ridiculous, imaginary fairy tales. Atheists don't fly planes into buildings. Atheists don't bomb women's health centers. Atheists don't blow themselves up (or used mentally challenged people) in crowded markets. Religion is the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing. They are all cults. They all want to control every aspect of your life, from what you read, what you eat, who you marry, even when I can buy a fucking 6 pack. Some of them are just more dedicated and effective in their brainwashing.

wow, lotta whoosh in here.

good luck fellas

Can someone please ban this egoist?

I thought it was interesting that the Pentagon had a contract with a company owned by a man on the FBI's most wanted list--conflict of interest maybe?

Making rash generalizations and quoting George Carlin really doesn't make you look very intelligent in my eyes. While George Carlin has the ability to make it funny. You just make it lose.

Religion is just a basic belief system. There is nothing wrong with belief systems, it's the extremists in the belief system that ruin it. I know plenty of catholic, christian, protestant people that live everyday life, not going to the extent that the FLDS did.

The people i know are not under any crazy "mind control" that you speak of, because they have whats called "common sense", something you apparently don't have due to your statement that "Atheists never kill each other", evidently you've never spent time in or learning about prison.

I am an Agnostic, who leans heavily towards Atheistic beliefs, because, you know what? Atheism is just a belief system too, that can also be taken to extremes. If you sincerely believe that Atheists don't murder, don't commit crime, don't firebomb churches, if you think Atheism doesn't have it's fair share of extremists, i sincerely want to come live in your little bubble.

While i wholeheartedly disagree with what these specific religious extremists did, i will not judge every religious person by the actions of these extremists. That would be pure ignorance.

Religious people also do some very good things, like operate Red Cross Stations in Iraq, Feed the homeless, help the sick, spend time with the elderly since our government has pretty much forgotten them, and a long list of other things.

Really ?
I have a hard time believing that a company making aircraft parts for the military is a sole proprietorship.

Also, it's pretty ridiculous to say their "business" is coercing young women (from 13 up) to "marry" grown men. Thats clearly not what I'm talking about.

Personally, I know you guys are smarter than that, so I figure you must be being deliberately obtuse.

so . . .

Really what? That it's a conflict of interest? Yes, when a government is trying to catch someone it's silly to be paying a company, he owns, money that he could use in evading arrest. It's one step removed from aiding and abetting a criminal.

Does it really matter whether or not he's the only owner? Money was paid to a criminal as a direct result of the government contract.

Where did I say anything about the business coercing young women to marry grown men? That was my first comment in the thread, and I was pretty clear about my reason for including it.

Call me obtuse all you want, but it's obvious to most people why it's relevant or at the very least interesting, which is why I included it.

Holy shit whoosh dude.

First, It should be pretty easy to look up and find that on this subject I'm talking about it was Bald_Eagle said their "business" is coercing young women (from 13 up) to "marry" grown men. I never meant to imply it was you.
But if you can't separate that from a corporation making aircraft parts for the sake of discussion . . . then I don't even know where to start.

Next.
I was wondering about their corporate structure. How is it related to or tied to the FDLS Church?
I am making some presumptions but corporations are generally entities of their own, aren't they ? Not responsible for the personal actions of individuals working there. Certainly not their religious beliefs, however sick and twisted. Nor for crimes they've committed. Unless of course they were crimes related to the business.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but the businesses are owned by members of FLDS.

The "business" is an abstract entity. It can't be responsible for the owners actions. This is a practical matter and you're making it a theoretical one. The Pentagon paid money to members of FLDS who paid Warren Jeffs. They in essence facilitated criminal activity. I never called for getting the Pentagon or anyone in the government in trouble for it. I just thought it was interesting, and it is. It's like you're trying to argue that it's not interesting, and I'm not really understanding that.

Look, for the most part I agree with you. The man went overboard in his post. But here's the thing: the religious extremists are doing the heinous things that they do specifically due to their belief in God (or gods) and their interpretation of the teachings and commandments thereof. I have no idea where you'd get the idea that there is any atheist equivalent.

Obviously atheists have been known to commit crimes. Some of them pretty horrific crimes. But I can't think of any that did them *because* they were atheists. Their atheism was incidental.

I'm wondering how it's related. Not that it's not interesting.

Now I found the story that Bald_Eagle conveniently didn't source when He plucked his little quote from it.

Here.

Do note that while his church recieved huge donations in a round about sort of way, Jeffs was never employed by NewEra Manufacturing, he wasn't a CEO or on the board of directors. Nothing. No relationship at all.

and I love the cherry pickin Bald_Eagle, nice work. Here's the quote in context.

Here's another.

So, back to the top. Are you suggesting that the government should check out your religious affiliations before doing any business ?
You know , see who you or your company have been donating to and what their beliefs are ?
Maybe they should investigate if anyone you associate with might have any strange, tawdry or possibly illegal beliefs.
You seem to be going that route.

Are you talking to me or bald_eagle? I can't tell if you're conflating our comments or just not being clear in who you're addressing.

As far as the above flowchart is concerned, the payments were made to Warren Jeffs AND FLDS.

And as far as them being related, they are related.

And not to argue BE's point, but saying the DoD is not aware of criminal allegations is a convenient way to CYA when the FLDS has been under investigation for years. Because they've been under investigation, it's reasonable to conclude that its members (the owners of the companies) may be participating in illegal activity. In the final analysis, it may not be enough to condemn the government, but I certainly don't think it shows good judgment, and it definitely makes this whole thing newsworthy (or related).

What payments were made to Jeffs ? Or FLDS for that matter ?

Payments were made to Western Precision.

And now you are saying that if entity a is under investigation, entity b, c, and d, must be participating ??
Fuck due process or anything , they marry children !!! BURN THEM !!!

You did read the article I cited didn't you?

Yes, who were owned by FLDS members who were under investigation. We just went over this.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm done with this conversation. You haven't even articulated an objection.

?
The article clearly states that neither the Companies, or anyone managing the businesses are, nor were they under any sort of investigation, nor charged with, or suspected of any crime.

My question, once more , then

You're equivocating. If you can't see that, I can't help you. For the second time, I'm done with this conversation.

So you've never heard of Atheist extremists damaging churches? Their firm belief in Atheism drove them to try to snuff out the existence of any other belief structure?

While Atheists are far less likely to commit a crime "in the name of" they are not exempt from the act. There is a local Atheist here suing a church pastor because he is teaching the local children that there is a God, he's teaching it in a church. He isn't standing on the street corner teaching it, he's in a private church teaching it. That's just absolute lunacy to me.

There is also an Atheist following a bit further south of me, that has in fact committed crimes and destroyed property of surrounding churches and even gone as far as destroying religious headstones in cemeteries While they aren't flying planes into sky scrapers they are obviously taking their belief system to an extreme.

I personally have a "believe what you want, just don't push it on me" attitude when it comes to religious beliefs. To tell you the truth, i really don't care about religion and belief structures enough to argue over them, simply because they are just personal beliefs.

The point that Shiny_Metal_Ass seemed to be trying to make was that if there was no religion anywhere in the world, there wouldn't be any mass murders in the name of religion. He's right, it wouldn't be in the name of religion, it would be in the name of something else. It's a proven fact that people of a like mind flock together. If religion wasn't the driving factor, there would still be other factors that people would take to extremes. Be it race, gender, ethnicity, whatever. There are people that get entirely too engrossed in the idea of being "a part of the whole" and do atrocious things in the name of that whole, in an attempt to prove their whole to be the right one. Religion to an extreme if anything, is just another excuse.