TOPICS:
APR 11, 2008 11:41 PM
First the MySpace kids beating a girl on YouTube now this Facebook shit. Damn internet's serious business. ![]()
Oh and also:
APR 12, 2008 06:36 AM
miss(ter) thomas beatie, explains to the neighbours about womens vagina-rey evolution.

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APR 12, 2008 07:08 AM
To say that Thomas Beatie is a woman... i dunno. Is that fair?
Biologically, sure. I mean, has a vagina, got his breasts effectively removed and he's having a baby, so there's no getting around that. But i think it's unfair for anyone outside of the situation to say anything about his sexual identity.
As for the rest... maybe he's kind of a jerk for all the press, but maybe not. Maybe he and his wife thought it would be better to come out in the open about it instead of waiting for the media machine to chase them down about it?
APR 12, 2008 07:19 AM
I keep marveling about how I emphatically agree with most of FTR's Asshole Fuck Face Roundups, yet keep disagreeing with him every where else.
As far as the Indonesian Flag Waver, maybe he should have blown up a bunch of foreingers instead. I'm sure they would have given him some community service instead.
I have to admit, being in favor of McCain (as we all know), I'm somewhat embarassed by the Tiger Woods comment. At least McCain didn't say it himself.

SouGei
Blackwood, NJ
January 2007
APR 12, 2008 08:06 AM
"WHOOOOAAAAHHHH!!!"
OH SHI- Dude did not just compare the opposition to a young sports legend grudgingly admired even by people who hate the sport...BURNNNN.
I think the "pregnant man" is a little more complicated, but I agree that anyone trying to make news just by having a kid belongs on this list, like their genetic line is so fucking important they could never think of adopting. People are being way to fair with this douche. It would be cool if they tried to not declare a gender and just live like whatever, but no they gotta make a big point, "now I'm a man...now I'm a pregnant man"! It brings up the stupidity of gay marriage laws, but way to create a human life for the sake of a political argument. That kid is gonna be Cheney x 100.
APR 12, 2008 08:13 AM
For what it's worth, the Jakarta Post is calling the Maluku separatist verdict "nonsense."
The story hasn't appeared in The Straits Times, though. Nice to see our local paper doing its usual fine job of not reporting news that might embarrass a neighboring country.
APR 12, 2008 08:36 AM
Hey crazy lady with the vagina and no penis, you’re a lady. Just because you had your breasts cut off does not make you a dude. You’ve still got this thing between your legs called a “vagina.”
I could give a shit if a transsexual has a baby, just don’t try to pass yourself off as something you are not. You were born a lady, you’ve got lady parts and you get to have a baby. You are not a “pregnant man.”
Congrats, FTR! You have, within 5 sentences, made me lose all respect for you and made me need to verbally smack you upside your head.
Is a 'penis' the proper way to determine someone's sex? It has been a common practice in the past among doctors to cut off a little nub from a baby if the sex organs were not entirely recognizable.
What the doctor suggests? "Raise it like a girl, and she'll never know the difference." There was a tragic case about ita few years ago concerning David Reimer.
David here never knew that he had a penis, and he might have found out sooner had his DNA been tested and he found out he had "XY" on his 23rd pair.
Now, is "XX" and "XY" a proper way to determine someone's sex? For 99% of the cases, yes. People whose sex chromosomes pair up as "Xo", "XYY", "XXY", or "XXX" aren't technically 'men' or 'women', am I right? At least one lesbian couple explioted this legal loophole.
People who are transsexual will tell you that you cannot cure them of their gender dysphoria just like you cannot cure the gay. That should be your first clue that your sex is not determined on your naughty bits or by a chromosome that may or may not work (androgen insensitivity/Y-inactivation disorder, there was a freakin' episode of House on it!) but mayhap it is hardwired in your brain.
Here are two links that use the scientific analysis of the hypothalamus as opposed to the "does she have balls or a hole down there" research method.
Oxford Journal
The Endocrine Society
But I will conceed the point that it is stupid to brag about being a preggers dude to the news, the world, and to the internet tubes. (Really, only a dude would go around and brag that he's preggers, just to show up the other guys who brag about their chemically-enhanced erections.) Give the kid as normal a childhood that you can.
APR 12, 2008 08:47 AM
Thanks, MetalsmithJJ. You said a lot of the stuff I wanted to say.
FTR, you know I respect you, but the obvious and absolutely ridiculous transphobia in this article made me really sad and disappointed.
You are obviously completely ignorant about body dysmorphia and transgender issues. On top of that, why on earth would it upset you so much that someone chooses not to fit into the stereotypical binary standard of gender? People who have a basic level decency would have enough respect for Thomas Beatie to call him by the gender he truly is. Repeatedly screaming "he has a vagina, he's a WOMAN" just makes you look stupid. Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
APR 12, 2008 08:49 AM
Haba said: People are being way to fair with this douche. It would be cool if they tried to not declare a gender and just live like whatever, but no they gotta make a big point, "now I'm a man...now I'm a pregnant man"! It brings up the stupidity of gay marriage laws, but way to create a human life for the sake of a political argument. That kid is gonna be Cheney x 100.
What the fuck makes you think they decided to have this baby as a "political argument"? Maybe they were just two people in love who wanted to have a fucking baby.
Jesus christ. I do not understand why so many people are so determined to be angry at Thomas Beatie. "Oh noes! Someone, somewhere isn't fitting into the gender binary I know and love! I must find a way to be morally outraged!"
APR 12, 2008 09:22 AM
Morgan said:
You are obviously completely ignorant about body dysmorphia and transgender issues. On top of that, why on earth would it upset you so much that someone chooses not to fit into the stereotypical binary standard of gender? People who have a basic level decency would have enough respect for Thomas Beatie to call him by the gender he truly is. Repeatedly screaming "he has a vagina, he's a WOMAN" just makes you look stupid. Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
+1
I had a friend transition from female to male, and at a certain point during his transition it was literally noticable that he was no longer female. He went through a male puberty like change, his voice changed, his smell changed, his emotions changed...he was certainly male. Even without a dick.
APR 12, 2008 09:29 AM
FTR's reaction to the transgender thing disappointed me, but I can understand it because I've never really thought about it myself until now. The only real exposure I've had to it is webcomics. 5ideways and Khaos Komics to be precise.
It doesn't surprise me that, with brains as advanced and cluttered as ours, what we've got between our legs doesn't match the way we think about ourselves.
APR 12, 2008 09:48 AM
Morgan said:
Thanks, MetalsmithJJ. You said a lot of the stuff I wanted to say.
FTR, you know I respect you, but the obvious and absolutely ridiculous transphobia in this article made me really sad and disappointed.
You are obviously completely ignorant about body dysmorphia and transgender issues. On top of that, why on earth would it upset you so much that someone chooses not to fit into the stereotypical binary standard of gender? People who have a basic level decency would have enough respect for Thomas Beatie to call him by the gender he truly is. Repeatedly screaming "he has a vagina, he's a WOMAN" just makes you look stupid. Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Um. Yeah . I'd respectfully like to say gender IS as simple as what you have between your legs.
If it wasn't then why would you need surgery to become trans gender ? (Of course unless you happen to be a natural hermaphrodite.) I can just say I feel like a woman, tell you I'm a woman, and it makes it so ? No, I have a penis and that in and of itself determines my gender.
Sexuality may not be that simple, but gender ? I'm pretty sure.
And really, I'm sure their love for children and all that is important to them but if there's no political connotation why are they doing magazine articles and press claiming to be some sort of miracle ? It's not.
I wouldn't want to disparage him as a person but it sounds like someone needs a dose of reality. There's certainly a lot of flexibility and grey in the area of gender and sexuality but redefining Biology to coddle someones mental impression of their sexuality is a little over the top, no ?
APR 12, 2008 09:59 AM
Morgan said:
Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Actually, it is.
APR 12, 2008 10:02 AM
Chainlink said:
If it wasn't then why would you need surgery to become trans gender ?
1. Maybe because some people out there have spent their whole lives feeling like their bodies don't match their true, psychological gender? And the surgery is needed to, you know, make the body match the mind?
2. You don't get surgery to "become transgender", some transgendered people get surgery to become the man/woman they have always felt they truly were. They've always been transgendered, you don't "become" transgender.
Chainlink said:
I can just say I feel like a woman, tell you I'm a woman, and it makes it so ?
Yes. If a person who is transgendered tells me "look, I have these body parts but that isn't who I am, I am really a man/woman", then I'll accept that. Why the fuck should I care whether they want to label themselves as a man or a woman, anyway?
Chainlink said:
No, I have a penis and that in and of itself determines my gender.
That's a very narrow way of seeing things. Your body parts might determine your physical sex, but that doesn't mean it determines your gender. Gender is a fluid thing.
Chainlink said:
And really, I'm sure their love for children and all that is important to them but if there's no political connotation why are they doing magazine articles and press
As someone said above, maybe because it was better to get it out there as a positive story instead of having ignorant people who would probably come at them with pitchforks "expose" their story later on? Or maybe because it's just an interesting story, and an inspirational one for many people, especially other transgendered people?
Chainlink said:I wouldn't want to disparage him as a person but it sounds like someone needs a dose of reality. There's certainly a lot of flexibility and grey in the area of gender and sexuality but redefining biology to coddle someones mental impression of their sexuality is a little over the top, no ?
No, no it's not. Then again, I'm not so egotistical as to think that I have any right to tell someone who they are based on their genitals. Or to think my petty opinions about what defines sex and gender should be applied to all people. Frankly, it's really none of my business how someone labels their sexuality, gender, or sex and I have more important things to do with my life than get my panties in a wad because someone doesn't fit into the gender binary. Shocking concept, isn't it?

meatpieboy
Korea, D.P.R.
June 2004
APR 12, 2008 10:02 AM
Chainlink said:
Morgan said:
Thanks, MetalsmithJJ. You said a lot of the stuff I wanted to say.
FTR, you know I respect you, but the obvious and absolutely ridiculous transphobia in this article made me really sad and disappointed.
You are obviously completely ignorant about body dysmorphia and transgender issues. On top of that, why on earth would it upset you so much that someone chooses not to fit into the stereotypical binary standard of gender? People who have a basic level decency would have enough respect for Thomas Beatie to call him by the gender he truly is. Repeatedly screaming "he has a vagina, he's a WOMAN" just makes you look stupid. Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Um. Yeah . I'd respectfully like to say gender IS as simple as what you have between your legs.
If it wasn't then why would you need surgery to become trans gender ? (Of course unless you happen to be a natural hermaphrodite.) I can just say I feel like a woman, tell you I'm a woman, and it makes it so ? No, I have a penis and that in and of itself determines my gender.
Sexuality may not be that simple, but gender ? I'm pretty sure.
And really, I'm sure their love for children and all that is important to them but if there's no political connotation why are they doing magazine articles and press claiming to be some sort of miracle ? It's not.
I wouldn't want to disparage him as a person but it sounds like someone needs a dose of reality. There's certainly a lot of flexibility and grey in the area of gender and sexuality but redefining Biology to coddle someones mental impression of their sexuality is a little over the top, no ?
Hey chain-
Just to make this a little more explicit... your organs determine your SEX. There's a little bit of slop, biologically, as Metalsmith made clear. Gender, as I understand it both biologically and sociologically, is more a reflection of how you act and identify. Sexual preference also seems to be determined distinctly from gender and sex.
APR 12, 2008 10:03 AM
FearTheReaper said:
Morgan said:
Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Actually, it is.
Then I feel sorry for you and your limited viewpoint on gender. Perhaps you should read some books on the subject and, you know, learn.
APR 12, 2008 10:05 AM
MetalsmithJJ said:
Hey crazy lady with the vagina and no penis, you’re a lady. Just because you had your breasts cut off does not make you a dude. You’ve still got this thing between your legs called a “vagina.”
I could give a shit if a transsexual has a baby, just don’t try to pass yourself off as something you are not. You were born a lady, you’ve got lady parts and you get to have a baby. You are not a “pregnant man.”
Congrats, FTR! You have, within 5 sentences, made me lose all respect for you and made me need to verbally smack you upside your head.
Is a 'penis' the proper way to determine someone's sex? It has been a common practice in the past among doctors to cut off a little nub from a baby if the sex organs were not entirely recognizable.
What the doctor suggests? "Raise it like a girl, and she'll never know the difference." There was a tragic case about ita few years ago concerning David Reimer.
David here never knew that he had a penis, and he might have found out sooner had his DNA been tested and he found out he had "XY" on his 23rd pair.
Now, is "XX" and "XY" a proper way to determine someone's sex? For 99% of the cases, yes. People whose sex chromosomes pair up as "Xo", "XYY", "XXY", or "XXX" aren't technically 'men' or 'women', am I right? At least one lesbian couple explioted this legal loophole.
People who are transsexual will tell you that you cannot cure them of their gender dysphoria just like you cannot cure the gay. That should be your first clue that your sex is not determined on your naughty bits or by a chromosome that may or may not work (androgen insensitivity/Y-inactivation disorder, there was a freakin' episode of House on it!) but mayhap it is hardwired in your brain.
Here are two links that use the scientific analysis of the hypothalamus as opposed to the "does she have balls or a hole down there" research method.
Oxford Journal
The Endocrine Society
But I will conceed the point that it is stupid to brag about being a preggers dude to the news, the world, and to the internet tubes. (Really, only a dude would go around and brag that he's preggers, just to show up the other guys who brag about their chemically-enhanced erections.) Give the kid as normal a childhood that you can.
Oh, thanks. You really me a lot to think about.
Is that what you wanted to hear? Feel better now?
Tommy is an asshole. As I said in the article, I could give a shit about a transexual having a kid. You conveniently skipped over that part. It's how Tommy is going it that is revolting. He is not a man having a child. He is a transsexual having a child. If you can't see the difference, good luck to you.
APR 12, 2008 10:07 AM
The opening bit regarding Lykurgos Logothetis was pretty bad ass.
APR 12, 2008 10:09 AM
Chainlink said:
Um. Yeah . I'd respectfully like to say gender IS as simple as what you have between your legs.
If it wasn't then why would you need surgery to become trans gender ? (Of course unless you happen to be a natural hermaphrodite.) I can just say I feel like a woman, tell you I'm a woman, and it makes it so ? No, I have a penis and that in and of itself determines my gender.
Sexuality may not be that simple, but gender ? I'm pretty sure.
And really, I'm sure their love for children and all that is important to them but if there's no political connotation why are they doing magazine articles and press claiming to be some sort of miracle ? It's not.
I wouldn't want to disparage him as a person but it sounds like someone needs a dose of reality. There's certainly a lot of flexibility and grey in the area of gender and sexuality but redefining biology to coddle someones mental impression of their sexuality is a little over the top, no ?
To respectfully say that gender is a simple matter of what is between your legs does more than just disparage him and any transgendered person as a person; your defining them into your perception of what they are is the same sort of thinking that brought about the "one drop" policy that kept octoroons defined as black.
You didn't see the last bit of my reply, it seems. The Hypothalamus is a part of the brain, in the lower part that rationality and reason have nothing to do with. It controls hunger, exhaustion, who you want to do, and most importantly, HOW you think.
Being a transsexual, in essence, is "Girl brain inside Boy body" or, in the case listed here, "Boy brain inside Girl body".
And since we cannot fix a boy brain to think like a girl brain, that boy brain that is left inside the girl body has to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and see themselves as wrong. But since you have a boy brain in a boy body, maybe this concept is hard for you to comprehend.
Just look at Tumblebird. Would you consider her a guy?
APR 12, 2008 10:09 AM
FearTheReaper said:
As I said in the article, I could give a shit about a transexual having a kid.
I have a hard time believing that, as your long winded ranting (read: whining) about how Tommy can't be a man because he has girl parts seems to imply (read: make it pretty obvious) that you have a problem with transexual people.
APR 12, 2008 10:11 AM
FearTheReaper said:
Morgan said:
Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Actually, it is.
Actually, it isn't. Sex is between your legs. Gender is a social construct.
APR 12, 2008 10:12 AM
MetalsmithJJ said:
But since you have a boy brain in a boy body, maybe this concept is hard for you to comprehend.
Hell, I have a girl brain in a girl body but I still understand the concept. Maybe I just got the Anti-Transphobia traning when I came out as queer, but it's pretty easy for me not to judge people based only on their junk!
APR 12, 2008 10:12 AM
Elichrusos said:
FearTheReaper said:
Morgan said:
Gender ain't as simple as what you have between your legs.
Actually, it is.
Actually, it isn't. Sex is between your legs. Gender is a social construct.
Well said.
APR 12, 2008 10:22 AM
Morgan said:
Chainlink said:
If it wasn't then why would you need surgery to become trans gender ?
1. Maybe because some people out there have spent their whole lives feeling like their bodies don't match their true, psychological gender? And the surgery is needed to, you know, make the body match the mind?
2. You don't get surgery to "become transgender", some transgendered people get surgery to become the man/woman they have always felt they truly were. They've always been transgendered, you don't "become" transgender.
Chainlink said:
I can just say I feel like a woman, tell you I'm a woman, and it makes it so ?
Yes. If a person who is transgendered tells me "look, I have these body parts but that isn't who I am, I am really a man/woman", then I'll accept that. Why the fuck should I care whether they want to label themselves as a man or a woman, anyway?
Chainlink said:
No, I have a penis and that in and of itself determines my gender.
That's a very narrow way of seeing things. Your body parts might determine your physical sex, but that doesn't mean it determines your gender. Gender is a fluid thing.
Chainlink said:
And really, I'm sure their love for children and all that is important to them but if there's no political connotation why are they doing magazine articles and press
As someone said above, maybe because it was better to get it out there as a positive story instead of having ignorant people who would probably come at them with pitchforks "expose" their story later on? Or maybe because it's just an interesting story, and an inspirational one for many people, especially other transgendered people?
Chainlink said:I wouldn't want to disparage him as a person but it sounds like someone needs a dose of reality. There's certainly a lot of flexibility and grey in the area of gender and sexuality but redefining biology to coddle someones mental impression of their sexuality is a little over the top, no ?
No, no it's not. Then again, I'm not so egotistical as to think that I have any right to tell someone who they are based on their genitals. Or to think my petty opinions about what defines sex and gender should be applied to all people. Frankly, it's really none of my business how someone labels their sexuality, gender, or sex and I have more important things to do with my life than get my panties in a wad because someone doesn't fit into the gender binary. Shocking concept, isn't it?
Meh. My panties aren't in a wad over it. I've just always thought of the distinction as gender being physical attributes and sexuality applied to the
psychology. Perhaps even thats more of a gray area than I would have thought.
Look, I'm happy for them. I think it's pretty cool. And he is welcome to define himself any he wants.
I still find it disingenuous to promote the idea that "he" is having a baby.














FearTheReaper
NEWSWIRE
I'm lost
APR 11, 2008 11:37 PM