Proving the point: Liveleak gets death threats.

Fitna is a brief 15 minute film about an evil ideology named Islamism.

Wait!

Hold your horses!

I have not uttered a racist statement on these boards. I have not even criticised Islam, as such (although, I fail to see how criticising a religion can be described as racism, bigotry, a phobia or anything other than exercising free speech).

That said, I am well acquainted with the customary kneejerk reaction, so I'll qualify my statement.

Islam is a broad name for a hundreds of sects that hold Mohammed as their Prophet and the Koran as their holy book. These sects differ wildly. Some such as the Ismaili sect are seen as moderate, modern and pro-Western. Wahabism is usually seen as quite the opposite (although one can be a moderate Wahabi). The two main schools, Sunni & Shia are arguably further apart than Catholicism & Protestantism.

Aiming a criticism at "Islam" is therefore as vague as hating "weather".

Fitna does not attack Islam in general. It does not attack Muslims in general and it does not criticise any individual sect of Islam. It attacks extremist Islam, extremist Muslims and as I said, an evil ideology named Islamism.

Islamism is also a fairly broad term - referring to various ideologies that blend Islamic doctrine with politics, terrorism, intimidation, homophobia, antisemitism, sexism, barbarity & religious supremacy as it seeks to impose itself across the world. It is theocratic fascism.

Fitna is a movie made by a Dutch Politician named Geert Wilders. Quite a bold move, considering the last Dutch film-maker to broach the subject, Theo Van Gogh, was murdered for his efforts. His collaborator, Ayann Hirsi Ali, is largely in hiding following death threats.

Fitna was banned across Europe - even though the film itself only shows video footage from terrorist atrocities, street riots, vile, incendiary words from disgraceful Imams and excerpts from the Koran. Its creator was forced to release the film on Liveleak after hosting giants Network Solutions removed its official website.

Now LiveLeak have been forced to remove the film, due to death threats.

It seems ironic to me that somebody who is angry about his religious views being labeled "violent" should seek to demonstrate his case by killing people or issuing death threats, but fascist cults aren't famous for their pragmatism, subtlety and considered approach to problem solving.

The saddest thing to come out of this whole debacle, was not the inevitable death threats, but the response from some liberal groups.

Liberals are supposed to espouse freedom and fight oppression and barbarity. But when a film comes out that condemns barbarity, violence and oppression the immediate reaction of some Liberals is to shout for its banning. To call for the censorship of free speech.

The rationale given is that, in attacking Islamism and the encroaching Islamic extremism in Europe, the film maker was being "racist" against Muslims.

Would they call for the banning of a film about the KKK, on the grounds that it was racist against white people?

It seems that death threat wielding Islamists are not the only people bereft of a sense of irony.

Sadly, lines have now been drawn in the sand and it will become harder and harder for anyone to criticise Islamism. It has become a "protected species". You can slag off any other school of thought. You can flush a bible down the toilet, brand conservatives or liberals "the spawn of satan" and tease your vegan mates all you like, but slag off a barbaric, misogynist, homophobic terrorist and you'd better make sure he isn't doing it in the name of Allah.

My God, you're a stupid man.

That's all you fucking have?

loser

Please define the phrase "antisemitism" for me, if criticizing a religion cannot be bigoted, racist, or phobic, or anything other than exercising free speech.

Yes, the way to support free speech is by supporting a politician who wants the Netherlands to ban the Koran because "a moderate Islam does not exist."

You could, of course, provide actual links to actual statements these actual "Liberals" who are calling for this film to be censored. Or you could build a big ol' straw man and bash away at your sworn enemy, Those Evil Liberals Who I Made Up.

Since when have you been worth a more substantial response?

Antisemitism is hatred and bigotry aimed at the Jews. Attacking Jewish people is one thing, criticising the religion Judaism is something else.

I have no problem with anyone criticising Judaism. I have no problem with people expressing abject HATRED for Judaism. They are criticizing ideas and doctrines.

The news has been drowning in this. Just Google "Fitna" and "protest" or "racist"

So sum up, your responses to my three statements were, in order, "Nope", "I'll completely ignore that" and "I'm too lazy to provide any evidence to actually prove my point".

Awesome!

Then why make any effort at all?

Sorry - it just screams "I'm pissed off, but I have no argument"

bwhahaha nice rush limbaugh avatar.

Then you'd be wrong. Idiot.

His avatar may be false advertising, but it's not Rush Limbaugh.

I don't see how your response to his response is any better. Nor, for that matter, does your (oooh, edited, too!) non-response to Uncognitive's help in any way to disprove the belief.

Oh - I'm sorry

Here's hundreds of links

no - he got it right

Still waiting for your salient points, arsehole

This shows a rather remarkable lack of knowledge about Islam. Did you ask yourself, maybe, why such films, or those cartoons about Mohammed, incite some Muslims to violence?

And your boy Van Gogh wasn't exactly an innocent either. He commonly refered to Muslims as "goat fuckers" and had verses of the Koran shown on the thinly veiled nude bodies of women kneeling as if at prayer . . . probably one of the biggest ways to insult basic Islam as a whole. No, he shouldn't have been murdered for it, but he sure as hell was no innocent martyr. Watch the Movie

It was designed to do two things: Bring to light the mistreatment of women under Islam, and to deliberatly piss off fanatics.

So now it's "Nope", "I'll just keep on ignoring how hypocritical it is for Geert Wilders of all fucking people to act like a free speech martyr when he wants to pass laws banning fucking books he dislikes", and "Here's a bunch of links, most if not all of which don't mention 'liberals' at all".

Wow, that P.J. O'Rourke avatar really was false advertising. (Damn unrefreshed cache and blah blah blah)

The only people I've seen speaking out against Fitna are Liberals and Islamists.

Not all Liberals of course. Check the
Liberal blogs if you want examples.

I assume - as you seem to take exception to my statement - that you fully support the showing of this film?

Acting put-upon when called out over your (continually) shoddy style after making such a fuss over "salient points" isn't helping your credibility, either.

Are supporting and condemning his only two options?

From the liberal blog you linked to, emphasis added:

Oh noes, Liberals are wanting to censor poor Geert's film!

Except, you know, they're not. They're condemning it. You know, by using their free speech rights.

Censorship would be using the law to ban the film. Or a book. Like the Koran. For example.

Wilders has the right to show his anti-Islam diatribe all he wants, but I find it hilarious that anyone is trying to paint Wilders as a martyr for free speech rights when he urges censorship of speech he disagrees with.

I've read the Koran, visited mosques and my gf is Muslim. I'm not exactly in the dark when it comes to the Religion of Peace.

Cartoons incite some Muslims to violence because a) they treat the Prophet as more precious than their own kids b) they are encouraged to take to the streets in violent protest rather than write a missive to the editor of the magazines showing the cartoons.

But - whatever their motivation, they are wrong.

I see nothing particularly wrong with pissing off fanatics, but bringing the mistreatment of women to light is a noble cause.

As for calling Muslims "goat fuckers" - never heard that before, but if it's true, then that obviously awful, but it shouldn't even be vaguely suggested as some sort of excuse for murder.

Well, since absolutely no Liberals at all want to ban the film and all Liberals agree with the general principal of protesting against Islamofascist oppression and imperialism, may I take this opportunity to apologise to all Liberals.

Hey Liberals, when did you stop beating your wives?

My God, you are dumb.