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Shalome

Shalome

MODERATOR

Los Angeles, CA

DEC 15, 2007 10:38 AM

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Excerpts from a Boston Globe editorial:

Secrets are coming out of the Senate subcommittee probing the FBI and CIA. But the biggest secrets, I suspect will remain untouched.

Yes, we learn that the FBI tapped wires illegally, kept lists of people to be put in concentration camps, wrote fake letters to destroy personal lives and used dirty tricks to disrupt organizations it didn't like. The CIA opened mail illegally, plotted the murder of foreign leaders and conspired to overthrow a democratically elected government.

It is the habit of governments everywhere, including ours, when caught lying, stealing or murdering, to murmur a few words of confession, find a scapegoat to punish and go right on doing its dirty work in more subtle ways.

...

What will happen now with these revelations on the CIA and FBI? The usual. A few changes in personnel, a few new laws. But the same exclusive club of corporate billionaires, with their teams of lawyers, accountants, politicians, and intellectual advisers hoping to become Secretary of State, will remain in power.
...

The biggest secret of all is beginning to emerge: That "the enemy" of this government is anyone, here or abroad, who won't put up with control of the world by Chase Manhattan, Exxon, General Motors, [etc]. It is chilling but suddenly believable that a government willing to kill [foreign] peasants and put protesters in cages will also assassinate Americans and put citizens here in concentration camps.

That's a heavy secret for us to carry in our heads. But we need to know it, if we are going to figure out how to defend our lives and our liberties from those who have occupied America.



--Howard Zinn, writing for the Boston Globe, December, 1975

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

DEC 15, 2007 04:17 PM

Shalome

Shalome

MODERATOR

Los Angeles, CA

DEC 15, 2007 06:10 PM



It seems we are doomed to repeat the outrage-inspiring actions described as well as the outraged act of describing those same actions, with little change on either side.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 15, 2007 07:04 PM

Almost every time this administration has a new twist, it reminds me of the Nixon days. That cute, little war is the same - all part of the same, repetitive package.

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 15, 2007 07:09 PM

bald_eagle said:
Almost every time this administration has a new twist, it reminds me of the Nixon days. That cute, little war is the same - all part of the same, repetitive package.


Well, there's a reason for that. Bush's Inner Circle - Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove, at least - saw (and in Cheney's case still see) themselves as having a mission to restore the Nixonian conception of the Imperial Presidency.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 15, 2007 07:22 PM

Zarth said:

bald_eagle said:
Almost every time this administration has a new twist, it reminds me of the Nixon days. That cute, little war is the same - all part of the same, repetitive package.


Well, there's a reason for that. Bush's Inner Circle - Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove, at least - saw (and in Cheney's case still see) themselves as having a mission to restore the Nixonian conception of the Imperial Presidency.


Yep. It worked so well the first time ...

But I think you're right. Cheney is the common link.


zoom image

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 15, 2007 07:24 PM

bald_eagle said:

Zarth said:

bald_eagle said:
Almost every time this administration has a new twist, it reminds me of the Nixon days. That cute, little war is the same - all part of the same, repetitive package.


Well, there's a reason for that. Bush's Inner Circle - Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove, at least - saw (and in Cheney's case still see) themselves as having a mission to restore the Nixonian conception of the Imperial Presidency.


Yep. It worked so well the first time ...

But I think you're right. Cheney is the common link.


Well, remember, Rumsfeld was Cheney's mentor, back in the day.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 15, 2007 07:46 PM

Zarth said:

bald_eagle said:

Zarth said:

bald_eagle said:
Almost every time this administration has a new twist, it reminds me of the Nixon days. That cute, little war is the same - all part of the same, repetitive package.


Well, there's a reason for that. Bush's Inner Circle - Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove, at least - saw (and in Cheney's case still see) themselves as having a mission to restore the Nixonian conception of the Imperial Presidency.


Yep. It worked so well the first time ...

But I think you're right. Cheney is the common link.


Well, remember, Rumsfeld was Cheney's mentor, back in the day.


There's a joke about the apprentice overcoming the master in there somewhere. Didn't Cheney help throw Rummy under the bus?

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Omaha, NE
April 2005

DEC 15, 2007 07:57 PM

bald_eagle said:

Zarth said:
Well, remember, Rumsfeld was Cheney's mentor, back in the day.


There's a joke about the apprentice overcoming the master in there somewhere. Didn't Cheney help throw Rummy under the bus?



As I recall, he was one of the few members of the "Save Rummy" camp.

I can't completely remember, but he may have been the only person at that camp.

bald_eagle

bald_eagle

Indianapolis, IN
November 2006

DEC 15, 2007 08:06 PM

KUNGFOO said:

bald_eagle said:

Zarth said:
Well, remember, Rumsfeld was Cheney's mentor, back in the day.


There's a joke about the apprentice overcoming the master in there somewhere. Didn't Cheney help throw Rummy under the bus?



As I recall, he was one of the few members of the "Save Rummy" camp.

I can't completely remember, but he may have been the only person at that camp.



Looks like you're right, according to
Fox News

Tallboy66

Tallboy66

USA
January 2005

DEC 15, 2007 09:51 PM

We were court ordered to give you documents but we destroyed them. Then in a further investigation the reason we didn't produce the documents was because we found out they had been destroyed.


The Scooter Libby/CIA leak investigation paraphrased by Tallboy from an am talk show host. surreal