Current Events

TOPICS:

Previous

PAGE: 

1 ... 

82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86

 ... 484

Next

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

NOV 12, 2007 10:18 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071112/sc_afp/ussciencefuel

CHICAGO (AFP) - US researchers have developed a method of producing hydrogen gas from biodegradable organic material, potentially providing an abundant source of this clean-burning fuel, according to a study released Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT

The technology offers a way to cheaply and efficiently generate hydrogen gas from readily available and renewable biomass such as cellulose or glucose, and could be used for powering vehicles, making fertilizer and treating drinking water.

Numerous public transportation systems are moving toward hydrogen-powered engines as an alternative to gasoline, but most hydrogen today is generated from nonrenewable fossil fuels such as natural gas.

The method used by engineers at Pennsylvania State University however combines electron-generating bacteria and a small electrical charge in a microbial fuel cell to produce hydrogen gas.

Microbial fuel cells work through the action of bacteria which can pass electrons to an anode. The electrons flow from the anode through a wire to the cathode producing an electric current. In the process, the bacteria consume organic matter in the biomass material.

An external jolt of electricity helps generate hydrogen gas at the cathode.

In the past, the process, which is known as electrohydrogenesis, has had poor efficiency rates and low hydrogen yields.

But the researchers at Pennsylvania State University were able to get around these problems by chemically modifying elements of the reactor.

In laboratory experiments, their reactor generated hydrogen gas at nearly 99 percent of the theoretical maximum yield using aetic acid, a common dead-end product of glucose fermentation.

"This process produces 288 percent more energy in hydrogen than the electrical energy that is added in the process," said Bruce Logan, a professor of environmental engineering at Penn State.

The technology is economically viable now, which gives hydrogen an edge over another alternative biofuel which is grabbing more headlines, Logan said.

"The energy focus is currently on ethanol as a fuel, but economical ethanol from cellulose is 10 years down the road," said Logan.

"First you need to break cellulose down to sugars and then bacteria can convert them to ethanol."

One of the immediate applications for this technology is to supply the hydrogen that is used in fuel cell cars to generate the electricity that drives the motor, but it could also can be used to convert wood chips into hydrogen to be used as fertilizer.

The study appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.



Think about the implications, a reduced dependence on foreign oil, cars that produce water as a byproduct. Whats not to be pleased about. smile Now if were really smart and someone with the political will to get this done steps up we could all be driving electric cars within a decade.

Tallboy66

Tallboy66

Chicago, IL
January 2005

NOV 12, 2007 10:40 PM

Uh, I don't know but something about bacteria and chemically modifying things to make them work?

I'm no rocket scientist but anything to get rid of $3.19 a gallon is fine with me.

artpie

artpie

Winston Salem, NC
December 2003

NOV 12, 2007 11:01 PM

Expect $4/gal. for a X-mas gift this year.

Tallboy66

Tallboy66

Chicago, IL
January 2005

NOV 12, 2007 11:43 PM

artpie said:
Expect $4/gal. for a X-mas gift this year.



Actually I saw something like $4.34 in Chicago this past summer.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

NOV 13, 2007 02:33 PM

The question here is, how much energy does that "external jolt of electricity" use?

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

NOV 13, 2007 02:35 PM

artpie said:
Expect $4/gal. for a X-mas gift this year.



I'm sorry, but this was only ever a matter of time. We've used all the cheap oil. The only way the oil price is going is up, and the rise can only get steeper.

Priapos

priapos

San Angelo, TX
October 2005

NOV 13, 2007 04:16 PM

LIght Sweet Crude Futures Hey, check out 2015, only $10 less than tomorrow. I haven't looked for Brent, but if you like you can find it. People may lose on those futures bets, but probably not.

Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

NOV 13, 2007 05:26 PM

SockPuppet said:
The question here is, how much energy does that "external jolt of electricity" use?



"This process produces 288 percent more energy in hydrogen than the electrical energy that is added in the process," said Bruce Logan, a professor of environmental engineering at Penn State.

Oninotaki

oninotaki

Ypsilanti, MI
March 2003

NOV 14, 2007 12:52 PM

Shalome said:

SockPuppet said:
The question here is, how much energy does that "external jolt of electricity" use?



"This process produces 288 percent more energy in hydrogen than the electrical energy that is added in the process," said Bruce Logan, a professor of environmental engineering at Penn State.



that makes me very excited to hear as i was expecting the exact opposite, and that the scientists would promiise to make it better in the future.

At this point I just want something, anything that is not oil/coal/bio fuel to power my stuff

blackeyed

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

NOV 14, 2007 02:41 PM

Electricity is still the way to go. Hydrogen cars are extremely expensive to build, and will be extremely expensive to purchase for a very long time. Hydrogen also carries a much higher explosive risk than electricity.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

NOV 14, 2007 03:24 PM

Formus said:
Electricity is still the way to go. Hydrogen cars are extremely expensive to build, and will be extremely expensive to purchase for a very long time. Hydrogen also carries a much higher explosive risk than electricity.



Yeah but the hydrogen fuel cell cars produce electricity so even as a stop gap measure it may be possible to convert the existing cars over to full electric at a later date by removing the fuel cells and putting better batteries and charging systems into the vehicle. As for the explosive risk gasoline is pretty flammable anyhow so I can't imagine there being much worse of a risk. smile

substitute

substitute

New Lenox, IL
August 2004

NOV 14, 2007 04:03 PM

Anything thats gets us energy independence is fine by me!

Formus

Formus

Milwaukee, WI
May 2007

NOV 14, 2007 04:32 PM

Colinism said:
As for the explosive risk gasoline is pretty flammable anyhow so I can't imagine there being much worse of a risk. smile



Tell that to the Hindenburg.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

NOV 14, 2007 04:43 PM

Formus said:

Colinism said:
As for the explosive risk gasoline is pretty flammable anyhow so I can't imagine there being much worse of a risk. smile



Tell that to the Hindenburg.



Which was also struck by lightening and made of flammable materials.

They are working on safe ways to transport and use the stuff you know. smile

Lemonkid

Lemonkid

Canada
May 2003

NOV 14, 2007 09:03 PM

My car runs on lightning. Sometimes on lemons.

But it also runs on motherfucking time.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

NOV 14, 2007 09:32 PM

Colinism said:

Formus said:

Colinism said:
As for the explosive risk gasoline is pretty flammable anyhow so I can't imagine there being much worse of a risk. smile



Tell that to the Hindenburg.



Which was also struck by lightening and made of flammable materials.

They are working on safe ways to transport and use the stuff you know. smile



I won't argue that the Hindenburg was just numerous amounts of engineering FAIL.

But hydrogen definitely needs to be produced in a state in which it's a little less volatile. That whole colorless flame in open air kind of scares me.

I watch people at gas stations do things that in all sense, gas should ignite. Hydrogen filling would need to be extremely different than gas stations, i don't think the general populous should be able to handle hydrogen filling stations. They're rather obtuse when it comes to filling directions for gasoline, at least it's a bit forgiving.

Accidents would also scare the hell out of me. I see accidents in which gas tanks crumple and their is gas spilled all over the road, what happens in the case of an accident with a hydrogen powered car, with a hydrogen reserve?

The engineering and safety that would go into a hydrogen powered car, along with all the building requirements to make hydrogen safe for the general populous isn't really an alternative to gasoline.

I like that they are looking for alternative sources though.

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

NOV 15, 2007 03:00 PM

DevilsReject said:

Colinism said:

Formus said:

Colinism said:
As for the explosive risk gasoline is pretty flammable anyhow so I can't imagine there being much worse of a risk. smile



Tell that to the Hindenburg.



Which was also struck by lightening and made of flammable materials.

They are working on safe ways to transport and use the stuff you know. smile



I won't argue that the Hindenburg was just numerous amounts of engineering FAIL.

But hydrogen definitely needs to be produced in a state in which it's a little less volatile. That whole colorless flame in open air kind of scares me.

I watch people at gas stations do things that in all sense, gas should ignite. Hydrogen filling would need to be extremely different than gas stations, i don't think the general populous should be able to handle hydrogen filling stations. They're rather obtuse when it comes to filling directions for gasoline, at least it's a bit forgiving.

Accidents would also scare the hell out of me. I see accidents in which gas tanks crumple and their is gas spilled all over the road, what happens in the case of an accident with a hydrogen powered car, with a hydrogen reserve?

The engineering and safety that would go into a hydrogen powered car, along with all the building requirements to make hydrogen safe for the general populous isn't really an alternative to gasoline.

I like that they are looking for alternative sources though.



What tends to happen with hydrogen is that it floats up and away, being lighter than air. That's not what happens with petrol/gasoline vapour; that's denser than air, so it stays low down near potential ignition sources.

Most of the fire you see on the Hindenburg film is the envelope, IIUC; hydrogen burns colourless.