TOPICS:
OCT 20, 2007 09:09 AM
Republicans despise the UN because they have been brain washed to do so. They have few actual facts and quite a bit of bullshit rhetoric. Sometimes their hatred overwhelms them so much that they double hate the UN, like Mitt Romney.
Really, the UN is kind of useless as it stands, but it is better than nothing. The only reason it's taken seriously is because of our military. Otherwise, it's just a group that sends out harshly worded letters.
If the UN wants to be relevant, they need to have their own source of military and economic might, rather than relying on the generosity of the US. As it stands now, we can do whatever we want wrt the UN, because we are their police, and there is nobody policing us, except the fact that we are a liberal democracy
OCT 20, 2007 09:25 AM
Wow...just wow...if Romney had any chance of being elected I'd actually be worried about his opinions but he's got that pesky "Not Protestant" thing and a sort of creepy robot vibe.
can they take away a Nobel peace prize? sure the guy discovered the double helix, but I mean that doesn't give you the right to say whatever you want. This is tantamount to winning the Nobel prize for physics then declaring the earth to be flat!
OCT 20, 2007 09:26 AM
I think the UN is a big waste on the US, to me its just one step closer to a N.W.O.
OCT 20, 2007 10:27 AM
xazapdmytinu said:
can they take away a Nobel peace prize? sure the guy discovered the double helix, but I mean that doesn't give you the right to say whatever you want. This is tantamount to winning the Nobel prize for physics then declaring the earth to be flat!
Dr. Watson didn't win the Nobel Peace Prize. He won the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine. I doubt they can take it away, because despite his bizarre ideas in one area, the accomplishment for which he was awarded the prize, the discovery of the double-helix shape of DNA, still stands.
Edit: Watson's award was actually for his research on the structure of nucleic acids, which includes, but is not limited to, the double-helix.
OCT 20, 2007 10:29 AM
That's sad to hear the Nobel Prize winner say that. I watched this documentary on Nova about DNA and the Genome project, and the scientists showed that we are all 99% identical to each other at the genetic level. For instance, any two humans anywhere on earth are more identical than two Chimpanzees sitting next to each other in the jungle. Because we are a younger species we have less variations. So, it was kind of weird to hear him say that now we are significantly different.
Also, we are 50% identical to bananas at the genetic level!,. it's all on Nova!

Adroitbeing
I'm lost
September 2003
OCT 20, 2007 10:38 AM
freshprncebelair said:
Republicans despise the UN because they have been brain washed to do so. They have few actual facts and quite a bit of bullshit rhetoric. Sometimes their hatred overwhelms them so much that they double hate the UN, like Mitt Romney.
Really, the UN is kind of useless as it stands, but it is better than nothing. The only reason it's taken seriously is because of our military. Otherwise, it's just a group that sends out harshly worded letters.
If the UN wants to be relevant, they need to have their own source of military and economic might, rather than relying on the generosity of the US. As it stands now, we can do whatever we want wrt the UN, because we are their police, and there is nobody policing us, except the fact that we are a liberal democracy
Let's be honest here; the UN is largely hamstrung by the behavior of the most powerful participating nation, the US. The US wields enough power to both subjugate the initiatives put forward by other national bodies while rationalizing the potential effectiveness of the UN.
The UN is ineffective because it cannot act for unified global initiatives proscribed by the US, whose objectives too often oppose broadly acknowledged global opinion.
There is a bully in the UN.
OCT 20, 2007 11:18 AM
I may be stupid and/or ignorant being that I'm from the south, so you'll have to excuse me...But, isn't the U.N. trying to do something about Myanmar, Darfur, pulling most of it's troops out of Iraq within the next year, etc. etc...?
Are we doing any of this or are we to busy trying to start WWIII by invading the Middle East, being so friendly with China that we overlook the fact that they (which eventually means we) profit off of genocide and other crimes against humanity and having our country run by overly-"religious" prudes that hate anyone/thing that isn't true to the WASP concept?
OCT 20, 2007 11:44 AM
Do we have a timetable for when the nominee Attorney General has been to the white house, and when he hasn't, and what his answers were at the corresponding times?
It would be an interesting relationship, I think.
OCT 20, 2007 12:46 PM
Adroitbeing said:
freshprncebelair said:
Republicans despise the UN because they have been brain washed to do so. They have few actual facts and quite a bit of bullshit rhetoric. Sometimes their hatred overwhelms them so much that they double hate the UN, like Mitt Romney.
Really, the UN is kind of useless as it stands, but it is better than nothing. The only reason it's taken seriously is because of our military. Otherwise, it's just a group that sends out harshly worded letters.
If the UN wants to be relevant, they need to have their own source of military and economic might, rather than relying on the generosity of the US. As it stands now, we can do whatever we want wrt the UN, because we are their police, and there is nobody policing us, except the fact that we are a liberal democracy
Let's be honest here; the UN is largely hamstrung by the behavior of the most powerful participating nation, the US. The US wields enough power to both subjugate the initiatives put forward by other national bodies while rationalizing the potential effectiveness of the UN.
The UN is ineffective because it cannot act for unified global initiatives proscribed by the US, whose objectives too often oppose broadly acknowledged global opinion.
There is a bully in the UN.
I hope you're joking...
The UN is a joke, plain and simple. Russia and China on the Human Rights Commission? The entire Human Rights Commission (which should just be honest and rename itself the Zionist Oversight Commission, since all it ever does is condemn Israel for sometimes illegitimate reasons) is a joke. The Security Council? Whose idea was it to give all five permanent members veto power?
China vetoes any resolution with teeth concerning Myanmar, North Korea, Iran, and the Sudan. So does (for the most part) Russia. Meanwhile, Russia is becoming an authoritarian fascist state, and China is a repressive oligarchy holding on to a failed ideal. Neither one will ever be called to the carpet by the UN because they can veto any resolution that targets them. Just like we can any resolution that targets us (and, believe me, we should be the targets of a few stern letters from the UN).
The UN isn't hamstrung by the US in particular, but by its poor design. If you're going to blame America, make sure that you blame the British, French, Chinese, and Russians as well (and more the Chinese and Russians).
I wish that we had an international treaty organization that worked, but the problem is that no one, especially Americans (and, let's face it, we would have to be on board to give it legitimacy) would want to give up enough sovereignty to make it work. We're stuck with the UN, and I personally think that the money we waste on the UN can be better spent elsewhere...
OCT 20, 2007 02:18 PM
Average height, weight, build, ability to grow body hair, skin color and shade, shape of the eyes, nose and lips and many other traits can all vary from one racial group to the next. Groups from northern Europe have light skin that soaks up more vitamin D on those cloudy cloudy days. Sherpas can have a chest depth twice the normal average. A handy adaptation when one lives at higher elevations. There is evidence of higher than average memory in tribes and groups with oral histories. Makes it easier to remember everything. Certain racial groups are susceptible to diseases that do not affect others. (ie. sickle cell anemia)
So with so many traits varying from racial group to racial group, why is it so hard for people to talk about relative intelligence varying from group to group as well?
Now, before people get their panties in a wad and start flaming me, I don't agree with Dr. Watson, and I have yet to see any unbiased scientific evidence showing that one race is smarter than another. It just seems pretty unscientific to completely deny the possibility.
Nobody gets all hot and bothered if you suggest that different varieties of dogs or other animals demonstrate different levels of intelligence. It's a pretty well accepted fact that certain breeds are smarter than others. So if its possible in one species of mammal, why not in another?
Hell, nobody gets upset if you talk about intelligence on the individual or family level. It's perfectly acceptable to say 'She's got her fathers brains' or 'That whole family is smart is as hell'. We even talk about how we are dumbing down America. How stupid people are out breeding intelligent people and making this country dumber every generation.
With all of this, why do people fly off the handle if you even suggest that intelligence could vary from racial group to racial group? It's just another trait. Why the big hub bub? Science isn't always pleasant. But to censor/stifle/deny out of hand is down right medieval. Dr. Watson's comments about employers with black employees show that he is in fact a racist with some deep seated prejudices. But as long as I have been following this story, nobody has actually tried to refute his evidence. It is just denied out of hand while people call him names. If they really truly believe that there is no difference in intelligence across racial lines, then they should confront his evidence head on and refute it scientifically. Calling him an asshole and chucking his work in the trash doesn't help anybody. And let's knock off the talk about taking back his Noble Prize. He won that award fair and square. Being a racist is grounds enough to be labeled an "Asshole Fuckface", but its still his right to be a racist bitch. Besides, if you took back every award given to racist bitches, there wouldn't be that many awards left.
OCT 20, 2007 03:31 PM
10k said:
Average height, weight, build, ability to grow body hair, skin color and shade, shape of the eyes, nose and lips and many other traits can all vary from one racial group to the next. Groups from northern Europe have light skin that soaks up more vitamin D on those cloudy cloudy days. Sherpas can have a chest depth twice the normal average. A handy adaptation when one lives at higher elevations. There is evidence of higher than average memory in tribes and groups with oral histories. Makes it easier to remember everything. Certain racial groups are susceptible to diseases that do not affect others. (ie. sickle cell anemia)
It seems like it should be noted that you're talking about a series of *physical* characteristics, that were adapted due to the demands of the environment. Intelligence presumably develops b/c of environmental demands as well - the need to get food, to stay safe/warm/dry, and so on. Since most environments share these problems - albeit in very different ways - my guess is that we'd see little intelligence difference across groups of people. You'd really have to prove that "place X is MUCH harder to live in than place Y."
Now, before people get their panties in a wad and start flaming me, I don't agree with Dr. Watson, and I have yet to see any unbiased scientific evidence showing that one race is smarter than another. It just seems pretty unscientific to completely deny the possibility.
I hate this argument. People always talk about "the science" - when we don't have data, a method, or anything here. Further, if we're going to talk about intelligence, I'd rather here from a psychologist rather than a crazy 80 year old geneticist any day of the week. Every field has its own demands and methods. Just talking about "the science" in the abstract is my new pet peeve.
Nobody gets all hot and bothered if you suggest that different varieties of dogs or other animals demonstrate different levels of intelligence. It's a pretty well accepted fact that certain breeds are smarter than others. So if its possible in one species of mammal, why not in another?
Decades of selective breeding is *not* the same as the kind of free floating gene swapping that human communities engage in. I'm pretty sure the two are not commensurable.
Hell, nobody gets upset if you talk about intelligence on the individual or family level. It's perfectly acceptable to say 'She's got her fathers brains' or 'That whole family is smart is as hell'. We even talk about how we are dumbing down America. How stupid people are out breeding intelligent people and making this country dumber every generation.
Do we really have to talk about how individual data is different than aggregate data?
With all of this, why do people fly off the handle if you even suggest that intelligence could vary from racial group to racial group? It's just another trait. Why the big hub bub? Science isn't always pleasant. But to censor/stifle/deny out of hand is down right medieval. Dr. Watson's comments about employers with black employees show that he is in fact a racist with some deep seated prejudices. But as long as I have been following this story, nobody has actually tried to refute his evidence. It is just denied out of hand while people call him names. If they really truly believe that there is no difference in intelligence across racial lines, then they should confront his evidence head on and refute it scientifically. Calling him an asshole and chucking his work in the trash doesn't help anybody. And let's knock off the talk about taking back his Noble Prize. He won that award fair and square. Being a racist is grounds enough to be labeled an "Asshole Fuckface", but its still his right to be a racist bitch. Besides, if you took back every award given to racist bitches, there wouldn't be that many awards left.
You know why we don't take this seriously? B/c, again, first off - there is no data on hand here. Second, the people who want to argue about how "this is a hard fact" always overlook the fact that we're not even sure how to define or measure intelligence. There are huge debates in the psychology literature over what these terms mean, and how expansive they should be. Also, when we're talking about intelligence - issues of collection (re: are IQ tests culturally biased), and data analysis (re: how are these data compared? are external factors controlled for?) are really pertinent. These are issues for psychologists (folks who think about intelligence and the brain and the mind and how they interact with environment), economists (guys who really know how to handle data), and sociologists (men and women who know how to think more deeply about myriad social processes) - not armchair people who toss facts around (by the way, I think facts are about the thing that science is most NOT).
OCT 20, 2007 04:02 PM
Pff. Stupid people. Especially that last one. Massive skillzorz to him. What is wrong with these people?
You should do a companion collumn that has all the good things people do. The opposite of The Asshole Fuckface Roundup. Everyone always reports on the bad things and it would be awesome if someone who was as good a writer as you are also did something positive ^^
That said, amazing article, as always. ![]()
OCT 20, 2007 04:25 PM
I was just happy that my Senator is the one who gave Mukasey a hard time.
OCT 20, 2007 04:36 PM
All valid points SignalNoise.
But the point I'm trying to make is that whenever this issue comes up, people fly off the handle and label anyone who doesn't toe the part line as a horrible awful bigot without even trying to be scientific about it. I've been following this story since Dr. Watson made his remarks, and every single response has been to name call and refuse to even look at the data he is presenting. If people truly want to put this argument to rest once and for all, look at the data. Examine it. Peer review it. Treat it like any other theory and disprove it logically and scientifically.
OCT 20, 2007 11:13 PM
10k said:
All valid points SignalNoise.
But the point I'm trying to make is that whenever this issue comes up, people fly off the handle and label anyone who doesn't toe the part line as a horrible awful bigot without even trying to be scientific about it. I've been following this story since Dr. Watson made his remarks, and every single response has been to name call and refuse to even look at the data he is presenting. If people truly want to put this argument to rest once and for all, look at the data. Examine it. Peer review it. Treat it like any other theory and disprove it logically and scientifically.
If Dr. Watson had framed his comments in the form of a testable and falsifiable formal theory, then I'd be totally behind you in saying that it should be reviewed and tested and then judged accordingly. However, since he was just spewing typical anecdotal 'Anyone who works with blacks knows they're kinda stupid' racist shit and not a body of testable data, I don't' really think that's an option. Not everything said by a Scientist is Science.
OCT 20, 2007 11:43 PM
back_and_forth said:
That's sad to hear the Nobel Prize winner say that. I watched this documentary on Nova about DNA and the Genome project, and the scientists showed that we are all 99% identical to each other at the genetic level. For instance, any two humans anywhere on earth are more identical than two Chimpanzees sitting next to each other in the jungle. Because we are a younger species we have less variations. So, it was kind of weird to hear him say that now we are significantly different.
Also, we are 50% identical to bananas at the genetic level!,. it's all on Nova!
AND bananas are an excellent source of potassium too.
OCT 21, 2007 12:15 AM
The US tried for years to let the UN deal with Iraq, and what happened? Every time there empty threats were ignored, the US was called to bomb something and then they listened. Every time the refused to let inspectors in, the US was called to handle the situation. Every time France broke the UN embargos, they did nothing. The UN is nothing without the US military. There is no denying that, without the US the UN is useless.
Oh ya, and now that we have done something about Iraq without the UN, we are the bad guys. In case you didn't take notice I am speaking from first hand knowledge. That is not a US plane in my picture, that is an Iraqi MIG that I stood next to when I was in Iraq. Listen to the news casts and you will hear that they are talking about violence in only a few places. Other than that the rest of the country is stable and rebuiding. If Iran would stay out of it then Iraq would be ok. But Iran can't have a stable Democratic Iraq, that would mean that it can work in the Middle East and that they are wrong. So when you think that what we are doing there is wrong, keep in mind that you are supporting Iran and terrorism with thoughts like that.
We have to succeed in Iraq if you do not want another attack on US soil.
Syal said:
I may be stupid and/or ignorant being that I'm from the south, so you'll have to excuse me...But, isn't the U.N. trying to do something about Myanmar, Darfur, pulling most of it's troops out of Iraq within the next year, etc. etc...?
Are we doing any of this or are we to busy trying to start WWIII by invading the Middle East, being so friendly with China that we overlook the fact that they (which eventually means we) profit off of genocide and other crimes against humanity and having our country run by overly-"religious" prudes that hate anyone/thing that isn't true to the WASP concept?
OCT 21, 2007 12:36 AM
conservative said:
So when you think that what we are doing there is wrong, keep in mind that you are supporting Iran and terrorism with thoughts like that.
We have to succeed in Iraq if you do not want another attack on US soil.
Wow.
I think you're actually serious.
Are you sure you aren't a cartoon that escaped from a comic strip lampooning hardline conservatives or something?
OCT 21, 2007 12:48 AM
conservative said:
The US tried for years to let the UN deal with Iraq, and what happened?
Yeah. Then we went in and found all those WMD's the UN said weren't there.
Seriously, try reading.
OCT 21, 2007 04:12 AM
redconsensus said:
If Dr. Watson had framed his comments in the form of a testable and falsifiable formal theory, then I'd be totally behind you in saying that it should be reviewed and tested and then judged accordingly. However, since he was just spewing typical anecdotal 'Anyone who works with blacks knows they're kinda stupid' racist shit and not a body of testable data, I don't' really think that's an option. Not everything said by a Scientist is Science.
That's the thing about it. He did say some dumbass ignorant shit when talking about his research, but he does claim that he has data on the subject. But nobody is even willing to touch it. I know that he said some pretty stupid stuff, but let the data stand on its own. Every article on the issue just blasts Watson for being a racist and won't even touch on his data. Can't even find it in journals. Everybody seems to be afraid that if they even examine the data, then they'll be labeled a racist too. Fuck that. It's a scientific theory. Not religious heresy.
I don't agree with him. But with all of the back sliding in personal freedom, civil rights and governmental accountability, the last thing we need is the scientific community to regress back to this medieval attitude. The best way to prove him wrong is to analyze his data and refute it on a logical scientific basis, not name calling.
OCT 21, 2007 07:10 AM
Kinda surprised you went with that Huckabee quote instead of the one about how we have to bring people from other countries to work here because of abortion:
Sometimes we talk about why we're importing so many people in our workforce. It might be for the last 35 years, we have aborted more than a million people who would have been in our workforce had we not had the holocaust of liberalized abortion under a flawed Supreme Court ruling in 1973.
oh this other one is good too:
I'm very tired of hearing people who are unwilling to change the constitution, but seem more than willing to change the holy word of God as it relates to the definition of marriage
Either way, dude's bonkers.
OCT 21, 2007 07:44 AM
back_and_forth said:
Also, we are 50% identical to bananas at the genetic level!,. it's all on Nova!

OCT 21, 2007 08:13 AM
The US tried for years to let the UN deal with Iraq, and what happened? Every time there empty threats were ignored, the US was called to bomb something and then they listened. Every time the refused to let inspectors in, the US was called to handle the situation. Every time France broke the UN embargos, they did nothing. The UN is nothing without the US military. There is no denying that, without the US the UN is useless.
Oh ya, and now that we have done something about Iraq without the UN, we are the bad guys. In case you didn't take notice I am speaking from first hand knowledge. So when you think that what we are doing there is wrong, keep in mind that you are supporting Iran and terrorism with thoughts like that.
We have to succeed in Iraq if you do not want another attack on US soil.
If you were anybody worth taking note of like a senator or some other policy maker and said stuff like this you'd be in next weeks Asshole Fuckface Roundup. I think this is the most ignorant thing I've read all year to the point where I don't even know if you are serious or if it is supposed to be satire.
I think the part I'm most amazed at is where you draw the conclusions that my opinions about the Iraq war and how it is a waste of money and human life is supporting terrorism. Bravo!




















FearTheReaper
NEWSWIRE
I'm lost
OCT 20, 2007 12:28 AM