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OneWithAll

OneWithAll

Charlton City, MA
October 2005

SEP 18, 2007 09:10 AM

I didn't see it on the board anywhere, but i'm not much of a narrirator.

long and short - kid gets tazered for asking questions in a PUBLIC FORUM!!!





Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

SEP 18, 2007 09:22 AM

News story, for those of you who like knowing what actually happened.

As two officers take Meyer by the arms, Kerry, D-Massachusetts, is heard to say, "That's alright, let me answer his question." Audience members applaud, and Meyer struggles to escape for several seconds as up to four officers try to remove him from the room.

Meyer screams for help and asks "What did I do?" as he tries to break away from officers. He is forced to the ground and officers order him to stop resisting. Meyer says he will walk out if the officers let him go.

As Kerry tells the audience he will answer the student's "very important question," Meyer struggles on the ground and yells at the officers to release him, crying out, "Don't Tase me, bro," just before he is Tasered. He is then led from the room, screaming, "What did I do?"



Fuckwit University police should not have Tazers.

(note: that's "fuckwit police at Universities", not "police at Fuckwit University.")

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

SEP 18, 2007 09:33 AM

"One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance." (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).


as much as i prefer to be non-violent, i honestly think that these situations where kids get tasered and arrested just for being kids should end in the police being forcefully prevented from abusing people. how many videos are there out there now that involve someone getting their ass kicked and subsequently electrocuted while a crowd of people can only videotape it for evidence later?

or what about the case of the middle-aged minister who had his leg broken last week? how long are we going to let them beat us up and throw us in jail for "resisting arrest" when the arrest was wrong in the first place?

Adroitbeing

Adroitbeing

I'm lost
September 2003

SEP 18, 2007 10:07 AM

I'm keen to see some pro authority types wade in here, but what the fuck were these idiotic fucking campus police hoping to accomplish? WTF has happened to reasoned approaches from the police force? This makes me so fucking angry.

As an advisor to several high school post graduation centers, I have written the university to inform them that given the failures of Florida government, the abusive behavior of Florida law enforcement, and the University's apparent inabilty to protect our most basic rights, that I wiil not continue to recommend students consider those colleges for higher education.

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

SEP 18, 2007 10:21 AM

That was very painful to watch. I hope those "officers" are arrested. I'm pretty truly disgusted by that.

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

SEP 18, 2007 10:29 AM



as much as i prefer to be non-violent, i honestly think that these situations where kids get tasered and arrested just for being kids should end in the police being forcefully prevented from abusing people. how many videos are there out there now that involve someone getting their ass kicked and subsequently electrocuted while a crowd of people can only videotape it for evidence later?



Fucking QFT. Yet more reason to kill cops. If I ever see something like this happen, I hope I have the courage to attempt to physically stop the police from doing anything like that. In other words, i'd hope for this outcome



Also, I don't like John Kerry, but you gotta admit the man had class for telling the police he wanted to answer the question.


Fuckwit University police should not have Tazers.



If they were police officers, they should have the standard gun, pepper spray, and tazers. A lot of public universities do have actual police assigned to campus.

However, if these were private security, a university shouldn't arm them, and they also have no right to forcefully detain someone like that, and someone would be well within their rights to pull a firearm on them for pulling what they did.

Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

SEP 18, 2007 10:33 AM

freshprncebelair said:
Also, I don't like John Kerry, but you gotta admit the man had class for telling the police he wanted to answer the question.



He also condemns the police reaction.

Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday comdemned the arrest of a University of Florida student at one of his speeches, saying that he was engaged in a "good healthy discussion" with 21-year-old Andrew Meyer when he was Tasered and taken into custody.

"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way," Kerry said in a statement. "I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody."

"I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building," he continued. "I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted."



freshprncebelair said:
Yet more reason to kill cops.



However, that remark is so stupid I don't even know what to say.

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

SEP 18, 2007 10:35 AM

Adroitbeing said:
WTF has happened to reasoned approaches from the police force?



The Patriot Act? Unitary Executive? A growth of authoritarian power in the US?

fountainofdreams

fountainofdreams

Batavia, IL
January 2005

SEP 18, 2007 10:36 AM

Shalome said:

freshprncebelair said:
Yet more reason to kill cops.



However, that remark is so stupid I don't even know what to say.



Fucking seriously.

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

SEP 18, 2007 10:36 AM

Oh, and also, could any lawyers comment on resisting an unlawful arrest?

Im googling but getting conflicting results. It looks like the suggested method is just to take it like a bitch and then pursue it in the courts aftwerward, but some pro-gun sites are saying its legal to fight back including up to lethal force

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

SEP 18, 2007 10:56 AM

The guy deserved to be arrested because he wouldn't leave when asked to and fought the police. However there was no real need to tazer him since they could have just man handled him into cuffs since they had at least 4 big cops on him. The guy was also kind of a dick and pushed to the head of the line.

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

SEP 18, 2007 10:59 AM

freshprncebelair said:
Oh, and also, could any lawyers comment on resisting an unlawful arrest?



How was the arrest unlawful? He was asked to leave and wouldn't.

The tazering was excessive force because they could have just manhandled him into cuffs but the first part seemed legal to me.

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

SEP 18, 2007 11:03 AM

d20 said:
how long are we going to let them beat us up and throw us in jail for "resisting arrest" when the arrest was wrong in the first place?



Well he was resiting. If you think that your arrest is improper the place to take that up is in the courts and not trying to struggle with the cops.

MessyJessy

MessyJessy

Fort Myers, FL
August 2005

SEP 18, 2007 11:10 AM

hadees said:

How was the arrest unlawful? He was asked to leave and wouldn't.



IMHO because all he did is ask a question in a public forum and possibly even more importantly did so on public property.

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

SEP 18, 2007 11:15 AM

MessyJessy said:

hadees said:

How was the arrest unlawful? He was asked to leave and wouldn't.



IMHO because all he did is ask a question in a public forum and possibly even more importantly did so on public property.



the University isn't considered public property. They can ask you to leave. The problem wasn't that he asked a question it that he wouldn't stop asking questions. There was a line of students behind him waiting to ask questions also. And according to the report I heard from Kerry the guy pushed to the front of the line.

And even if the arrest was improper the place to take that up is in the courts and not fighting the cops.

However the use of the taser by the cops was excessive force.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

SEP 18, 2007 11:22 AM

The person in front of Meyer was told he would be the last person to speak, Orlando said. Meyer said he was upset with that, so Kerry gave him the OK.

When he took the mike, Meyer then asked Kerry several questions. On amateur video linked from Meyer's website, his questions included why Kerry conceded in the 2004 presidential election, why not impeach President George W. Bush now, and whether Kerry was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale University.

When reminded that he was only supposed to ask one question, Meyer responded in the video ``He's talked for two hours. I think I can have two minutes.''

Members of the student group sponsoring the event summoned UF police to escort Meyer out, according to a police statement. At first, students can be heard cheering as he is asked to leave.



From: The Miami Herald

I have read on other political boards that Mr. Meyer was also running around campus earlier proclaiming that 9/11 was part of the Bush Campaign and that the whole 9/11 event was set up by the government.

Mr. Meyer didn't follow the rules. For one he wasn't even supposed to get to ask a question, got crybabyish about it, John Kerry gave him the okay to ask a question, and those are the two questions he asked? Then the students running the forum asked the cops to remove him from the situation, at which point he decided he didn't want to go. He was asked to leave! It's not like the cops up and decided to remove him.

It was obviously a ploy for attention. He got what he wanted. Attention. The side effects of that attention was a tazer.

A tazer is a non-lethal way to incapacitate an unruly person. Even if there were "four big cops" why do you think that the cops want to get kicked at, scratched at or hit at all? The cops used the tools they are trained to use to incapacitate someone and remove them from the situation. Who says that after they let him up, he wouldn't start swing like a wildman? He's already to the point where he is resisting, what's next?

No offense "man handling him into cuffs?" If you're resisting me that much, and you have trained and given me tools that are going to make my job easier, what do you think i am going to do? This guy is jumping, pushing, screaming and what looks to be kicking at officers. I take that as a threat to their safety. I am done trying to "man handle" i am going to incapacitate you.

Being a cop anymore is the worst profession around. Think about it. They are under constant watch by the media, and anything they do in a situation is put under strict scrutiny by people who weren't even at the situation.

I can be calm, cool and collective while sitting behind a computer scrutinizing something i see on Youtube, but if put in that situation, that would more than likely change. Watching a fight and being in a fight are two different things entirely.

Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?

I honestly don't think the cops did anything all that wrong. Pepper spray wasn't an option because of the crowd, a tazer will pick out a single individual. This guy was asked to leave, he didn't, the students running the forum asked the cops to get him out of there, they did it.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

SEP 18, 2007 11:31 AM

freshprncebelair said:
Yet more reason to kill cops.



You've just proven your opinions and comments on this thread irrelevant because of that statement alone. Congrats.

hadees said:
How was the arrest unlawful? He was asked to leave and wouldn't.



Because there appears evidence in that those videos that the campus police escalated the situation. There isn't any evidence that he was trying to incite a riot, as the police reasoned his arrest. He's just an obviously excitable kid who, in an attempt to ask a question, drew out his supporting argument.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

SEP 18, 2007 11:38 AM

DevilsReject said:

The person in front of Meyer was told he would be the last person to speak, Orlando said. Meyer said he was upset with that, so Kerry gave him the OK.

When he took the mike, Meyer then asked Kerry several questions. On amateur video linked from Meyer's website, his questions included why Kerry conceded in the 2004 presidential election, why not impeach President George W. Bush now, and whether Kerry was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale University.

When reminded that he was only supposed to ask one question, Meyer responded in the video ``He's talked for two hours. I think I can have two minutes.''

Members of the student group sponsoring the event summoned UF police to escort Meyer out, according to a police statement. At first, students can be heard cheering as he is asked to leave.



From: The Miami Herald

I have read on other political boards that Mr. Meyer was also running around campus earlier proclaiming that 9/11 was part of the Bush Campaign and that the whole 9/11 event was set up by the government.

Mr. Meyer didn't follow the rules. For one he wasn't even supposed to get to ask a question, got crybabyish about it, John Kerry gave him the okay to ask a question, and those are the two questions he asked? Then the students running the forum asked the cops to remove him from the situation, at which point he decided he didn't want to go. He was asked to leave! It's not like the cops up and decided to remove him.

It was obviously a ploy for attention. He got what he wanted. Attention. The side effects of that attention was a tazer.

A tazer is a non-lethal way to incapacitate an unruly person. Even if there were "four big cops" why do you think that the cops want to get kicked at, scratched at or hit at all? The cops used the tools they are trained to use to incapacitate someone and remove them from the situation. Who says that after they let him up, he wouldn't start swing like a wildman? He's already to the point where he is resisting, what's next?

No offense "man handling him into cuffs?" If you're resisting me that much, and you have trained and given me tools that are going to make my job easier, what do you think i am going to do? This guy is jumping, pushing, screaming and what looks to be kicking at officers. I take that as a threat to their safety. I am done trying to "man handle" i am going to incapacitate you.

Being a cop anymore is the worst profession around. Think about it. They are under constant watch by the media, and anything they do in a situation is put under strict scrutiny by people who weren't even at the situation.

I can be calm, cool and collective while sitting behind a computer scrutinizing something i see on Youtube, but if put in that situation, that would more than likely change. Watching a fight and being in a fight are two different things entirely.

Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?

I honestly don't think the cops did anything all that wrong. Pepper spray wasn't an option because of the crowd, a tazer will pick out a single individual. This guy was asked to leave, he didn't, the students running the forum asked the cops to get him out of there, they did it.



It is justifications like this that make me worry for the future of this country.

Is there a level of the police over-reaction that you will not apologize for.

I am just curious is all.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

SEP 18, 2007 11:51 AM

DevilsReject said:
Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?



That's a retarded argument. You went from 'it's an attention grab' to 'he's an assassin.

All I saw was a annoying kid trying to ask a drawn-out question.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

SEP 18, 2007 11:53 AM

NickFaust said:

DevilsReject said:

The person in front of Meyer was told he would be the last person to speak, Orlando said. Meyer said he was upset with that, so Kerry gave him the OK.

When he took the mike, Meyer then asked Kerry several questions. On amateur video linked from Meyer's website, his questions included why Kerry conceded in the 2004 presidential election, why not impeach President George W. Bush now, and whether Kerry was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale University.

When reminded that he was only supposed to ask one question, Meyer responded in the video ``He's talked for two hours. I think I can have two minutes.''

Members of the student group sponsoring the event summoned UF police to escort Meyer out, according to a police statement. At first, students can be heard cheering as he is asked to leave.



From: The Miami Herald

I have read on other political boards that Mr. Meyer was also running around campus earlier proclaiming that 9/11 was part of the Bush Campaign and that the whole 9/11 event was set up by the government.

Mr. Meyer didn't follow the rules. For one he wasn't even supposed to get to ask a question, got crybabyish about it, John Kerry gave him the okay to ask a question, and those are the two questions he asked? Then the students running the forum asked the cops to remove him from the situation, at which point he decided he didn't want to go. He was asked to leave! It's not like the cops up and decided to remove him.

It was obviously a ploy for attention. He got what he wanted. Attention. The side effects of that attention was a tazer.

A tazer is a non-lethal way to incapacitate an unruly person. Even if there were "four big cops" why do you think that the cops want to get kicked at, scratched at or hit at all? The cops used the tools they are trained to use to incapacitate someone and remove them from the situation. Who says that after they let him up, he wouldn't start swing like a wildman? He's already to the point where he is resisting, what's next?

No offense "man handling him into cuffs?" If you're resisting me that much, and you have trained and given me tools that are going to make my job easier, what do you think i am going to do? This guy is jumping, pushing, screaming and what looks to be kicking at officers. I take that as a threat to their safety. I am done trying to "man handle" i am going to incapacitate you.

Being a cop anymore is the worst profession around. Think about it. They are under constant watch by the media, and anything they do in a situation is put under strict scrutiny by people who weren't even at the situation.

I can be calm, cool and collective while sitting behind a computer scrutinizing something i see on Youtube, but if put in that situation, that would more than likely change. Watching a fight and being in a fight are two different things entirely.

Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?

I honestly don't think the cops did anything all that wrong. Pepper spray wasn't an option because of the crowd, a tazer will pick out a single individual. This guy was asked to leave, he didn't, the students running the forum asked the cops to get him out of there, they did it.



It is justifications like this that make me worry for the future of this country.

Is there a level of the police over-reaction that you will not apologize for.

I am just curious is all.



He was asked to leave by the people putting the event on. He chose not to. He put up a fight with the cops.

He was then told "Calm down or you will be tazered". He then chose not to calm down. He got tazered.

If i am acting an ass, and screaming some pretty left or right winged ideas, and then i am asked to leave and don't, i would fully expect to be removed from the situation. If i begin fighting with the people that are removing me from the situation, i fully expect them to do what they have to do to remove me from the situation.

If i came on SG and started running my mouth about the staff and the girls, and saying some pretty radical things, even if they were true, i'd still expect to be banned.

Believe it or not, tazering can be done for many reasons. One of them being the safety of the person being arrested. If the person being arrested continues to struggle as the cuffs are being put on, they can do extreme damage to themselves, like breaking bones, or tearing muscles or tendons, the damage is long lasting, as compared to the tazer blast, which usually incapacitates you for a few seconds and you may wet your pants.

Not to mention the damage he could do to the cops. If he hurts the cops, they file a worker's comp claim, Tuition goes up next year to cover costs.

The dude was asked to leave, he didn't. He was then told to leave, he didn't, he was then forced to leave and he fought. His fault.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

SEP 18, 2007 11:53 AM

KUNGFOO said:

DevilsReject said:
Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?



That's a retarded argument.



how is that retarded?

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

SEP 18, 2007 12:06 PM

DevilsReject said:

KUNGFOO said:

DevilsReject said:
Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?



That's a retarded argument.



how is that retarded?



Because if we dissolve the debate to making outlandish claims with no factual information to back it up, the person who makes the most wild claim wins.

Let me try one:

"The kid was actually a evil Martian alien named Ron who had come to steal John Kerry's soul, so they could sell it on the black market to the Chinese. The only thing that can stop evil aliens from Mars are tazers."

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

SEP 18, 2007 12:07 PM

DevilsReject said:

KUNGFOO said:

DevilsReject said:
Here's one for you. Reverse the situation a bit. This guy isn't removed from the situation, he is allowed to speak, and all the sudden pulls a gun out and shoots John Kerry, what would your reaction be to how the cops reacted then?



That's a retarded argument.



how is that retarded?



because you're making up an outlandish situation and using it as justification for what really happened. your argument is, essentially, that an unarmed kid surrounded by cops who was willing to leave peacefully was a potentially deadly risk that warranted an arrest and the use of significant force.

Uncognitive

Uncognitive

Brooklyn, NY
May 2003

SEP 18, 2007 12:16 PM

d20 said:
because you're making up an outlandish situation and using it as justification for what really happened. your argument is, essentially, that an unarmed kid surrounded by cops who was willing to leave peacefully was a potentially deadly risk that warranted an arrest and the use of significant force.



That's not really an accurate description of the event, though.

The kid asking the questions doesn't seem at all willing to leave peacefully. Initially 2-3 cops start escorting him out, and he breaks free from them and rushes towards the stage.

What should the cops have done then?

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

SEP 18, 2007 12:17 PM

KUNGFOO said:

hadees said:
How was the arrest unlawful? He was asked to leave and wouldn't.



Because there appears evidence in that those videos that the campus police escalated the situation. There isn't any evidence that he was trying to incite a riot, as the police reasoned his arrest. He's just an obviously excitable kid who, in an attempt to ask a question, drew out his supporting argument.



that, i believe, is the key point here. the kid was trying to ask a question that Kerry agreed to answer. for years now people have been denied entry to events, cordoned off in sanctioned protest areas, and denied their basic right (and responsibility) to ask questions like this of people in power -- Kerry at least had the grace to try to answer it.

he was impolite, yes, but politely standing by isn't exactly how a populace stays free. if he were violent or threatening, sure, keep the other people in the room safe, but asking a question is not a reason to take someone down, tase them, and arrest them.

with regards to the question earlier about how the law relates to resisting unlawful arrest: Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest. allowing yourself to be unlawfully arrested and sorting it out in court later is basically saying "fine, do whatever you want, the Fourth Amendment is that big of a deal anyways."

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