NEWS: Back Off Our Illegal Immigrants, Jorge

POLITICS: Back Off Our Illegal Immigrants, Jorge

George Bush has decided to crack down on illegal immigration, which will have a negative effect on California’s economy. Currently, more than 800,000 people work on California farms and more than half are undocumented. 60% of Californians believe that illegal immigrants should be allowed to apply for legal work permits. Conservatives are always for states rights and smaller government, unless they don’t want to be, like with the administration’s current War on Pot and now, the War on Immigrants.

Bush’s crackdown will target employers. The Department of Homeland Security will send out “no match” letters to businesses.

Awesome. That should not drive up prices, especially of agriculture products. The US has a 4.6% unemployment rate, so we actually need foreign workers in businesses like agriculture. Ex-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan believes that immigrants help to sustain the growth and productivity of the economy. The net effect is positive.

Additionally, if suddenly a large number of illegal immigrants are forced out of work over a 90 day period, where do they go? Would any of them turn to crime to pay the bills? What happens to all the money they spend on groceries, rent, cars, cell phones, haircuts and clothes? What happens to Sears? More importantly, why does Bush hate Sears?

The idea that illegal immigrants are a massive drain on our economy is a load of horseshit. Sure, they don’t pay income taxes and they use schools and other government services, which is a negative. But there are also many positives. They use false Social Security numbers and that money goes into they system. They never see a dime. It’s free money for us.

And illegal immigrants actually create jobs. Oh, you read that right, bitch. It’s a pretty simple concept to understand.

Illegal immigrants also free up time of higher-skilled workers. so they can earn more money. Not that I have an immigrant maid, but if I did, it would give me more time to write and generate income. It would also allow my wife extra time to see clients in her private practice. Lydia, if she was real, would come to my home and clean it once a week for 5 hours and we could use that freed up time to make more money. If Lydia were real, she would come on Wednesdays at 9 am, wake me up, annoy me with her clattering around and force me to go to Starbucks to work. But that would only be if she was real.

Anti-immigrant people think there are plenty of Americans willing to do the jobs that immigrants work. The immigrants are taking jobs from Americans! Of course, they are mainly uneducated, poor Americans and for some reason the right wing suddenly cares about them, but that is another topic. The theory is also total bullshit. California has more immigrants than any other state and during the illegal immigration rush of the last 25 years…

Wow! Holy fucking shit! Those damn immigrants! Right?

Huh. That doesn’t really support the “They’re taking our jobs” theory. It does support the, “No increase in minimum wage” theory as well as the, “Technology is replacing workers” theory and the "NAFTA theory." Also, over the last 25 years the number of high-school dropouts has “fallen sharply,” which means the number of people who want to do “those” jobs is falling. That is especially true in agriculture.

That’s right. If you force all illegal immigrants out of the country, even more jobs will head south of the border. The anti-immigrant folks are also the same people who scream about jobs going to Mexico because of NAFTA. But, if their effort to get rid of all the illegal immigrants succeeds, they will increase the effect of NAFTA and send more jobs to Mexico. It’s like they hate themselves!

But none of that will stop Bush from implementing his “no match” plan. As a plus, it will hurt the California economy. Republicans love to hurt the California economy because the state gives a lot of money to Democratic candidates. It’s the new California electricity crisis! Go get 'em, Bush. It's another well-thought-out plan.

Illegal is illegal. End of story. You can't do this anyplace in the world. It's illegal. You get deported. People need to start looking at the correct part of the issue here. Making it easier for them to become LEGAL. But let's get over this outrage at criminals, who are now purposely pushing this issue to get people on their side, being mistreated because they're being sent HOME.

Agreed, let's get all these fuckin' Europeans outta here.

I'm going to go with Ainur on this, Illegal is the issue, not that they're "taking our jobs".

of course they are illegal--no one disputes that. but legal is an entirely manufactured status--they are "illegal" now, but if we passed a law that made them "legal", they would be. the point is that deporting all these people because they are illegal serves little purpose and actually makes us worse off in the end.\

clearly they are breaking the law; this article is about how enforcing this law in the way that the administration is currently doing is a really bad idea.

You know what else is illegal? Giving illegal immigrants jobs, yet nobody seems to do or say anything about the companies giving them jobs. Guess it's easier to pick on the people desperate to make a few bucks than the greedy companies trying to save a few dollars.

Consider it done. I just shot myself for expressing my opinion. You are a great American., everything our Founding Father wished an American would be, really. But I actually didn't write any of this, because I shot myself. Actually, it was very hard to shoot myself because being a pile of shit, I have no arms. Yet I managed.

I have no problem with people coming to this country to make a better life for themselves, legal or otherwise. My ancestors came to this country seeking to do the exact same thing.

The problem lies in with a society that is sustained by workers earning sub-subsistence wages; both legal and illegal workers.

Go after the companies that increase shareholder revenues at the expense of employee salaries.

Kudos! Great imitation of a neo-con down to the bad spelling.

Remember how NAFTA was going to be a great thing for Mexico, the US and Canada? This is a direct result of NAFTA. For example, subsidized American corn has put out of business most of the Mexican corn growers. Whole regions of Mexico have lost their main economic driver. (Imagine Mexican tortilla makers have to import corn from the US!!!!) So these Mexican farmers now have to go North to find some kind of job that they can use to support their families. Yes, they are illegal, but they are illegal because they have been driven to it. They are not illegal because they are life-time criminals coming to rape us or terrorists trying to attack us. The "enemies" of our sovereign nation are those that act against our country's best interests. You'll find most of them in Washington, DC, not in fields in CA. And to those folks that say this is a matter of Homeland Security, remember that there were no 9/11 Mexican hijackers, most of them were Saudi nationals here LEGALLY. Saudi Arabia of course is one of our great partners....hmmm!

"trader to our nations sovereignty"

wow. Eugene really is a hick town.

Excuse me while I go trade some of your all american jobs with some queer french men for a pack of Gauloise and a rim job.

I agree with Keri. And the other thing that's missed in FTR's acrticle is the effect on the nations social programs. I may not agree with the social programs that our government runs (I think the government, state and local, tends to forget that it is our money....not the government's), but I don't think it's bound to change anytime soon. After 40 years of conditioning people to believe that the government owes them this, that, and whatever else, it's not going to change overnight.

They already take 35% of what I make right out of my pay. And I'm living paycheck to paycheck as it is. Where does the government expect the money to come from to pay for the Illegal's children to go to our schools? Or their FREE healthcare courtesy of an ER near you? Certainly not from the Illegals who are working. Last I checked, they were working in low-paying jobs. And last I checked (since my GF works in a $10/hr job), they'll end up getting all those taxes they paid back plus interest, if you count the services they receive (state insurance, supplemental welfare checks, etc).

FTR, you are clearly not an economist. Yours is the equivolant of the slave state's arguments prior to the civil war. In the end, there is hardship on either end of the solution to this problem. One of the solutions OBEYS THE LAW, and ensures that workers who come here will not be mistreated and abused. The other establishes a society of second-class non-citizens.

Now...try this one out. Georgia has started doing the same thing (because the Feds wouldn't). A large portion of Illegals left Georgia for friendlier climates like NC, SC and Maryland. Oddly enough, Georgia's economy has not been ruined.

But, take the problem our nation;s entitlement program is facing...and multiply that out 40 years...and that's a crisis.

Last year I researched my wife's ancestry. Most of her ancestors came from Germany in the 17th and 18th century. In one of the sources, I found a diatribe from English and Scottish settlers of the time bitching about how these "Palatines" from German speaking countries were lazy and were stealing jobs and land from the hard-working and rightful owners of the land, British subjects. I guess there will be idiots around forever!

Hey! Eugene is a Hippie/College town. This guy is the exception.

While you may have some points, it is a falacy to say that these people are coming here to live off of our social programs. Most of them are looking for a job and do NOT dare to be in a social program. They do not want any official of any agency to know that they are here. If anything your points back the idea to ease them into legal status, so we can tax them. I would agree with that, as long as they are making at least minimum wage.

No state's economy has been ruined by illegal immigration. In fact, the availability of cheap labor lowers the cost that you, the consumer, have to pay for products and services.

I only see one problem... once you make the illegals all LEGAL, then they get higher wages, benefits, SS, blah blah blah etc etc. then we need more fence jumpers to come over illegally to replace the newly legal illegals. otherwise all those benefits we are all enjoying by allowing illegals to work in our country dry up. if the illegals become legal, demand and get the wage increases they deserve, who will pick the fruit and cut the lawns for $2 a day?!?!?!

You what's funny....that's part of the program too. In the article you just read (or not) it makes mention of the fines that the employers will receive.

Seriously, though....it's true. We do need to make it unprofitable for employers to hire Illegal workers. We need to force local municipalities to enforce federal laws on the books already. We need to monitor our borders more carefully, on all sides, so we know who's coming and going...at least a little. We need to get rid of the minimum wage. And we need to streamline the process for immigration to the US, making it less about a business for lawyers, and more about getting the best and brightest of the world to come to our country.

which could also be done with lower taxes and repeal of the minimum wage laws.

Illegal immigrants pay local and state sales taxes. Also, many companies that hire undocumented workers use phony Social Security numbers and send in tax withholdings to the government, which then pockets those payments.

Oh, and if you're living paycheck to paycheck and not getting any refund from that supposed 35% in taxes you pay, you really need to visit H&R Block.

If you take yourself to any ER you want to, or the Social Security Admin, or (as we have in MD) day laborer sites, or the local health clinics...you will find a large number of Illegals there. Why? Because they know that the local municipalities are not going to report them to the INS or the Feds. Why? Because there is a law that says they cannot. When you apply for State Insurance, the paperwork states that your information WILL NOT BE SHARED with INS or the Federal government. So...i think I have your falacy right here!

46 million unisured Americans are taxing the health care system. Most illegals go to local clinics.

Are you a complete moron? Of course I get money back at taxtime. But...I get a very, VERY, small portion of the money they take from me back...that's for sure. I make more in one week than I get back from a year's worth of taxes that they take from me. AND I don't mind paying my taxes. My point is...the Illegal Immigrants NO WAY make enough of a contribution to offset the $30,000 per student that is spent on their children attending school, or the $30,000 in government services that is handed out to them (and LEGAL citizens as well...just to be fair).

Is that the only way you know to debate an issue? Attack the person you disagree with?

I'm not saying they should never come here....I'm saying that there has to be a better way to fix this system than allowing the status quo to continue.

Yes, there are laws not share the information. These folks come from countries were bribing officials is expected. They do not take comfort that their information is going to be kept confidential. You are still not refuting my point that these folks are NOT here to live off of our social programs. I take it you agree then!