Post-doctoral scholar Victoria Brescoll "conducted three tests in which randomly recruited men and women watched videos of a job interview and were asked to rate the applicant's status and assign them a salary."
In the first, the scripts were identical except where the candidate described feeling either angry or sad about losing an account due to a colleague's late arrival at a meeting.
Participants conferred the most status on the man who said he was angry, the second most on the woman who said she was sad, slightly less on the man who said he was sad, and least of all by a sizable margin on the woman who said she was angry.
In the second exeperiment, participants rated the angry female CEO as significantly less competent than all of the others, and in the third, "the angry woman with a good reason to be angry was awarded a much higher salary than the angry woman who provided no excuse, though it was still less than the men."
The average salary assigned to the angry man was almost $38,000 compared to about $23,500 for the angry woman and in the region of $30,000 for the other two candidates.
Brescoll referenced Hillary Clinton in the paper, noting that she was described last year as "too angry to be elected president" by Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman.
"As Senator Clinton's experience suggests, however, for a professional woman anger expression may lead to a decrease rather than an increase in her status," Brescoll wrote.
The other side of this is that if a woman is less assertive, she's thought of as being too weak to actually handle a position of power, thus meaning that women tend to get screwed either way.
If Hillary Clinton was any less forceful, I can promise that she would be met with criticisms of 'well, she seems nice and all, but is she really strong enough to lead a country?'.
Most people seem to think;
Are you an angry woman? Then you're an incompetent, irrational bitch with PMS that shouldn't be employed by anyone, ever!
or
Are you a demure, polite woman? Then you're too weak and silly to be employed by anyone, ever!
I like to mix it up and be a polite but angry woman, it seems to confuse people. Also, that way you get to let the Catch-22 twunts know that they're twunts.
The other side of this is that if a woman is less assertive, she's thought of as being too weak to actually handle a position of power, thus meaning that women tend to get screwed either way.
If Hillary Clinton was any less forceful, I can promise that she would be met with criticisms of 'well, she seems nice and all, but is she really strong enough to lead a country?'.
Most people seem to think;
Are you an angry woman? Then you're an incompetent, irrational bitch with PMS that shouldn't be employed by anyone, ever!
or
Are you a demure, polite woman? Then you're too weak and silly to be employed by anyone, ever!
I like to mix it up and be a polite but angry woman, it seems to confuse people. Also, that way you get to let the Catch-22 twunts know that they're twunts.
It would be interesting to know if there was a different bias among the male and female participants who rated the salaries. For example, do men and women perceive angry men and women in the same fashion and if they have a bias, is it to the same extent?
MetaTag said:
It would be interesting to know if there was a different bias among the male and female participants who rated the salaries. For example, do men and women perceive angry men and women in the same fashion and if they have a bias, is it to the same extent?
Call me simplistic, but I see it like this. An aggressive, arsehole of a man is an aggressive arsehole of a man and an aggressive bitch is an aggressive bitch. I don't care what gender you are, if you're acting like a fucker towards me, I respond in kind. It's just weird that this kind of stuff still exists in this age. I guess for some people, sexism is their way of clinging onto some sort of superiority complex they love to have to make them feel better about themselves.
punk said:
Conclusion: the people who participated in the survey are nimrods.
Im not so sure about it. I doubt it was a conscious reaction, but instead, a deep ingrained societal conditioning about the roles of women ms men in society.
Too angry? That's not just something the republicans say about Hillary Clinton, they are all over saying it about Al Franken (who is running for US Senate) in MN, too. The setup is this - Republicans are experts at fucking America. People get angry. Some, in fact, so angry the run for office so they can make a change. The Republican strategy is this - call them "too angry to be x," where x is you political office, President, Senator, Representative, Governor, whatever.
I'm quite frankly happy with their stretegy. Why? Because it won't work worth a shit. People are angry and they vote for angry people all the time. Nobody wants a lackadaisy-hapy-go-sucky keep-it-the-same dillhole mcfuckstick in office. Well, not nobody, but not enough. Not in 2008.
NickFaust said:
Well, at least now we truly understand the resistance to a Hillary Clinton presidency.
Yep , couldn't have anything with her consistent support of the Iraq war or anything . Yep , couldn't be that at all ...
And yes Nick , I know you're being sarcastic . So am I
Really? Every time I get angry people start to suggest that I should get therapy and start taking medication. Then again, I don't really work in the corporate world, so what do I know?
not to play devils advocate but...
did the men and women read the same script or were they given "gender appropriate" scripts?
IMO if the man were given better lines while the woman was given the kind of schlock we find on day time soaps.... we can all see how that would end.
While I believe that this study is mostly true, until I know more about it, I wold be hesitant to bring it into a discussions.
punk said:
Conclusion: the people who participated in the survey are nimrods.
Actually, "Nimrod" was, mythologically speaking, a great and mighty hunter who defied Yahweh. The slang you are using is courtesy of Warner Bros., as Bugs Bunny referred to Elmer Fudd as a "poor little Nimrod".
ThatTalentedHack said:
not to play devils advocate but...
did the men and women read the same script or were they given "gender appropriate" scripts?
Well, there's the bit that talks about the scripts being identical -- except for the sad vs angry reaction, which was a differential both genders were allowed to express.
ThatTalentedHack said:
not to play devils advocate but...
did the men and women read the same script or were they given "gender appropriate" scripts?
IMO if the man were given better lines while the woman was given the kind of schlock we find on day time soaps.... we can all see how that would end.
While I believe that this study is mostly true, until I know more about it, I wold be hesitant to bring it into a discussions.
From the linked story, re: the scripts
In the first, the scripts were identical except where the candidate described feeling either angry or sad about losing an account due to a colleague's late arrival at a meeting.
Participants conferred the most status on the man who said he was angry, the second most on the woman who said she was sad, slightly less on the man who said he was sad, and least of all by a sizable margin on the woman who said she was angry.
In a second experiment, the script was similar except that the job applicant also described his or her current occupation as a trainee or a senior executive.
"Participants rated the angry female CEO as significantly less competent than all of the other targets, including even the angry female trainee," Brescoll wrote. She said they viewed angry females as significantly more "out of control."
A third experiment tested whether a good reason for anger made any difference. The script was changed so that some angry candidates explained that the co-worker who arrived late had lied beforehand, indicating he had directions to the meeting.
Sure enough, the angry woman with a good reason to be angry was awarded a much higher salary than the angry woman who provided no excuse, though it was still less than the men.
There was no "giving the guys the good lines" to it at all. Identical scripts were written for each scenario, then read by both men and women.
The variations in opinion are related entirely to gender, and presumed gender-appropriate behavior, not to who got the best lines.
Heathen_Dave said:
Societally ingrained gender roles are still around?! HOLY SHIT!!
Whoa the sky is blue too?! WTF IS WITH TODAY!?!?!?!
If you fuckers tell me next that water is wet I'm gonna flip my shit.
Exactly what I was thinking. Who the hell thinks you have to study what we all already know? Hey Dave...maybe we can get some funding for that "water is wet" study!
Rahodeb
Los Angeles, CA
March 2006
AUG 04, 2007 08:03 PM