NEWS: Right Wing Nightmare: Michael Moore Is Right

POLITICS: Right Wing Nightmare: Michael Moore Is Right

At this point, if you do not believe we should have some form of universal healthcare in the United States, then you are probably mentally retarded. I know it is a very strange way to find out about your mental handicap. Alas, it is true. You are a fucking moron. Those of us who understand universal healthcare is a necessity can guide you through the problem and maybe even show you how to make a peanut and butter sandwich along the way. (Don’t put it in your pants!)

Michael Moore’s latest film, Sicko, does an excellent job of laying out the facts. Yes, I said facts. This is the point where right wing lunatics shit in their pants and start screaming at their computer screens. “Michael Moore is a liar – and he is fat.” Indeed, he is fat. He says so himself. But in the case of Sicko, he is factually correct, if you believe the left wing, hippy new source CNN, which is telecast from a commune.

According to CNN:

Wow, there was actually so much evidence to counter the anti-universal heath care idiots, that he couldn’t fit all the information into his movie. And the movie was long. Here is one fact Moore states that is true:

18,000 a year. Dead. This is a point I like to bring up with my father whenever he goes into one of his anti-immigrant rants about how "they" are destroying healthcare in the US. No. The millions of uninsured Americans are the ones taxing the healthcare system. They are the ones waiting too long, and then going to ER when their illness has progressed too far. (Hi, Dad! You’re fucking wrong)

Moore also claims that the US spends more of its GDP on health care than any other country on Earth. Guess what? True.

Seriously? Please tell me how you can read that and still be a complete moron who does not support universal healthcare. “But my taxes will go up!” You’re already paying more than you would from a tax increase, dipshit.

Moore points out that the US healthcare system is a fucking disaster, ranked number 37 according to the World Health Organization and he decimates the often-used argument that Canadians have to wait forever to see a doctor.

See, that last sentence there, dummy? Patient satisfaction and access. Do you know what those mean? It means the shit you heard from Fox News was actually shit. Literally. It was shit. CNN did point out that the US ranked highest for satisfaction. Of course, the 18,000 people who died this year because they did not receive simple, preventative screening did not participate in the survey. Oh, and the US had the lowest wait time for nonemergency elective surgery. You know, like tit jobs. Super, we win.

At this point, it is probably pretty obvious how wrong you are, but I will continue for your own good and because I like to be right. Here’s one of that facts that Moore did not cover in his movie because there was so much information to dispense.

Please explain that Libertarians. Please. Come on. Privatization is the answer, isn’t it? Do you know why you think that? Because you all have the mental ability of a four-year-old.

CNN did find a problem with Moore showing people happily waiting in ERs. According to CNN,

Oh my God! The fucking horror! How dare government health care pick and choose like that? My God, they are acting EXACTLY like an American insurance company. Except, odds are the French healthcare system is not denying benefits and care to somebody who was just diagnosed with cancer to save a buck.

But universal healthcare is the big, bad bogeyman to so many idiots. Don’t worry about the fact that businesses in countries with universal healthcare have an advantage over businesses in the US.

And those morons who are still against universal healthcare, feel free to explain how a private company, making profits off their fellow human being's health, would not allow someone to die to save a few thousand dollars. Because that is what is happening. Every single day. But you get to save a few bucks on taxes, so it’s all good, right?

nuff fucking said!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, this article was interesting minus the hoity toity condesending tone.

Yeah, but the idea of those with more helping out those with less by paying "more" taxes for healthcare doesn't really fly in this country. Every idiot goes through life with this weird, rabid idea that someday, they might be a millionaire. "Anybody in America can be rich, right?" "All I have to do is work hard, stay in line and nod my head when questioned, right?" They always wonder in Europe why we don't riot because the rich keep running things the way they do. It's because the 99% of us who want to be right up there with the 1% running things think we'll be one of them some day! Have you ever stopped to think about why there's only 1% of the super-rich and 99% of us are breakin our backs to be able to say that we're getting closer to "them"? I think I'll stop now. Writing this stuff makes me sick and mad...

And I am actually for a universal healthcare system btw. See this is the problem with politics right now. Either side can't just state the facts and present thier case. They have to attacke the opposing lines of thought while they are at it. There is no need to do that.

Yeah, FTR is certainly a lot more fun when he's poking fun of a public figure, instead of calling the reader an idiot every other fucking sentence.

The problem with healthcare is that it's a good with infinite and inelastic demand, and that the more medical advances we make, the more it costs to treat patients, since we have treatments for stuff that previously would have killed you.

And the problem with the Michael Moore film is that it sensationalizes the issues, and glosses over a lot of the reasons why the systems exist as they are today. For instance, the reason why Moore didn't interview a specialist doctor in the UK is that in the UK, there is only a 30% pay gap between specialists and GPs. In America, there is a 300% pay gap between specialists and GPs, with the predictable outcome of med school students rushing to become specialists and ignoring the gp route.

Also, with medical care being an infinitely demanded good, governments have to find some way to ration care, such as the NHS practice of denying treatment for self-inflicted injuries, or other rationing methods

I love how you call people against universal healthcare retards, simply because they don't see the same way you do about the way healthcare should be handled in the country. I mean, who wouldn't want the same government that brought you the VA hospital scandal to take over your healthcare?

I haven't seen Sicko yet, but from what I've read the biggest problem in it is that Moore tends to treat the whole thing a bit too simply. In other words, Moore spends so much time being amazed that "health care is free?!?!?" in other countries, he doesn't dig into what some of the problems in other health care systems might be, what kind of universal health care the US should adopt, or anything remotely challenging like that. In effect, Moore is perpetuating the same "I know better than you" mentality that already is the problem in too much of American political life ( The New Yorker review is a really interesting read in and of itself). Maybe that's not Moore's point, but I think people *know* healthy care is pretty shitty here. It would be nice to see him move from his "Gee whiz!" attitude to a more thoughtful kind of polemic.

You don't need to be right wing to think Moore is a self-serving, misrepresenting asshole. Like this post I posted before in the Sicko thread;

"Because he violates what he pretends to hold sacred.

Truth.

I think it is reprehensible to pass off your work as a "documentary," when most of it is carefully and creatively edited fiction. His cuts, added commentary, and selective editing all amount to a perversion, rather than the elucidation of the truth. While i don't have the time or the ability to go over all the things he has done that has irked me (starting with Bowling for Columbine, which I started my dislike for the opportunistic glory hog) this article does a good job discussing how Moore is a liar, an egotist and self-serving twit.

http://slate.com/id/2102723/

He's no visionary, just like Rush Limbaugh isn't. They polarize for the sake of polarizing and seek to harbor hate and distrust over the thing that matters most.


Truth.

If the government did what he does, there would be no end to the hatred for what we would rightfully call their "fascist tactics." If he wants to be viewed as a "public servant" then act like it. Be better than those you seek to tear down. Not as bad or worse."

And errors of omission can be worse than outright lies, because people tend to think they aren't as bad. If you said, "I hate racists who go around saying 'Blacks are n****s' and I quote you as saying, "I... go around saying, 'Blacks are N****s,'" that is an error of omission. That is why I hate Moore, because people defend him because he is creative with his lies. I prefer outright lying scumbags, i.e. politicians.


Second, calling people retarded for not wantinguniversal health care (which I am on the fence about, there are good arguments on both sides) is woefully ignorant. People need to stop being so fucking partisan and start looking at issues from both sides, not just the sides their "talking heads" agree to.

Again, I don't agree or disagree with it, my family not being able to afford healthcare for 4 years while my mother got sicker and sicker from MS notwithstanding. I just don't like the tone or the praise for that piece of shit Moore.

Hoity toity was not the term I would have used for that.

Enraged, incredulous, sarcastic, etc. certainly. But hoity toity?

That was the military, genius. Quite different from the government.

Yes, at this point people who don't want universal heathcare are retards.

This is one of the many reasons I enjoy being in the military and consider making it a career. The non government health care and retirement plans suck, our country seiously needs to get on this. Once again reaper you do not disapoint.

And one last thing on Moore. If he didn't build this rep for being, "Anti-Republican," as well as a misrepresenting liar, maybe we could talk about the issues instead of him. That pisses me off royally to, that the things that truly suffer are the ISSUES.

it was the only think i could think of.... im not real witty most of the time...

There's no such thing as free healthcare.

And honestly, the US situation has a lot of room improvement in terms of reducing costs, but the fundamental way in which the US decides to consume its healthcare is the reason for the system being broken.

Also, as an aside, I am working on a health information exchange network that would greatly improve the healthcare administration costs (4% of GDP currently), and when we talk to GP doctors and small specialists (and even hospital networks), their primary question is "How do I prevent information from being shared with competing doctors/specialists/hospitals?"

The first problem that needs to be tackled if Universal healthcare is to be implemented is to overcome the right wing lies about other countries universal healthcare. He does that well. Going into details would make the movie quite ineffective because people are against the IDEA of it.

This is how I feel.

I feel ive read this somewhere before.

Yes, our government does not at all do what he does.

And that disproves my point how? I basically said people wouldn't approve if the government did it, and you just said the government did it with disdain.

It would be partisan if I was a member of a party. Unfortunately for you I am independant.

It is my personal opinion that if you don't want universal healthcare at this point you are an ignorant, brainwashed fool. So, you are right, I should not have used the term "retard."

I don't tihnk I've yet commented on a FTR post, but here goes. I generally find his ranting pretty entertaining, a kind of left-wing O'Reilly or something... Through the vitriol, there's usually a point I agree with, just obscured by the attitude.

Now, I've yet to see Sicko, but the reviews I've read seem to indicate it contains a lot of praise for the health care systems of other countries. I'm English, and I can tell you the National Healthcare Service (NHS) is a very good thing, but it's certainly not without it's flaws, and I don't think Sicko really explores them. Despite that, I can't imagine living somewhere without free healthcare when I need it most (oh wait, I can - I live in Japan at the moment). Unfortunately for the detractors of free healthcare, a lot of the problems with the NHS are due to poor management, funding, and handling of those funds - not an inherent problem with universal healthcare. Still, it's a shame that a movie like Sicko might not explore that. It just gives fodder to the people who're inevitably going to try and poke holes in it.

Since government spends more than half of healthcare dollars spent in America and heavily regulates the rest, a case can be made that the failure is that of government intervention, not of the free market. And one can certainly question whether turning the system over to self-interested politicians and unaccountable bureaucracies is really an improvement. People on the left have this peculiar blind spot in that they don't hold government programs to the same standard they do the private sector (just as people on the right have a similar blind spot in reverse).
The problem with insurance companies is that since most Americans get health insurance through their employer, the insurance companies consider the employer to be their client, not the patient. If patients purchased insurance themeselves, insurance companies would behave better in efforts to compete for business.
It's possible to have a successful universal health system based largely on private insurance - the Netherlands does, and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) has proposed such a system, called the Healthy Americans Act.
http://wyden.senate.gov/media/2006/12132006_Healthy_Americans_Act.htm

The problem isn't right wing lies. The problem is that we have made 30 years of bad choices in the healthcare game, and simply moving to a single-payer system won't fix anything, but rather shift the costs onto the government.

The healthcare industry as a whole needs a top to bottom overhaul in this country, regardless of universal care or not