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Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 27, 2007 08:12 PM



…Among the youth, that is. Or so they say, anyway.

Young Americans are more likely than the general public to favor a government-run universal health care insurance system, an open-door policy on immigration and the legalization of gay marriage, according to a New York Times/CBS News/MTV poll. The poll also found that they are more likely to say the war in Iraq is heading to a successful conclusion.

The poll offers a snapshot of a group whose energy and idealism have always been as alluring to politicians as its scattered focus and shifting interests have been frustrating. It found that substantially more Americans ages 17 to 29 than four years ago are paying attention to the presidential race. But they appeared to be really familiar with only two of the candidates, Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, both Democrats.
[…]
They have continued a long-term drift away from the Republican Party.
[…]
More than half of Americans ages 17 to 29 — 54 percent — say they intend to vote for a Democrat for president in 2008. They share with the public at large a negative view of President Bush, who has a 28 percent approval rating with this group, and of the Republican Party. They hold a markedly more positive view of Democrats than they do of Republicans.


Energy and idealism are wonderful things, aren’t they? It’s important to note however that this was a poll conducted in part by MTV. So respondents could have thought they were asking about “Dances From The Hood”, not whether “Democrats were good.” I’m sure it happens all the time.

Still, I know that you crazy kids in the 18-29 range are going to say. You’re gonna be all like “Yo! Da Young Onez alwayez be reppin’ the Demz since back in the day. Recognize.” Well, that’s true, uh… homeslices. The young have tended to favor Democrats over the past 50 years. But to pre-empt any of you from posting that idiotic Churchill quote, the preference for Democrats among the youth hasn’t always been so strong.

Among this age group, Mr. Bush’s job approval rating after the attacks of Sept. 11 was more than 80 percent. Over the course of the next three years, it drifted downward leading into the presidential election of 2004, when 4 of 10 young Americans said they approved how Mr. Bush was handling his job.
[…]
Over the last half century, the youth vote has more often than not gone with the Democratic candidate for president, though with some notable exceptions. In 1984, Ronald Reagan won his second term as president by capturing 59 percent of the youth vote, according to exit polls, and the first President George Bush won in 1988 with 52 percent of that vote. This age group, however, has supported Democratic presidential candidates in every election since.

The percentage of young voters who identified themselves as Republican grew steadily during the Reagan administration, and reached a high of 37 percent in 1989. That number has declined ever since, and is now at 25 percent.


While this sort of issue polling must be encouraging for Democrats, its real utility in a non-election year is sure to be limited. On the other hand, I’m sure they’re causing the already-jittery folks on the right side of the aisle some pause, if for no other reason than it seems like the youth voters may be learning from their past mistakes.

[T]he survey also found that this generation of Americans is not cynical: 77 percent said they thought the votes of their generation would have a great bearing on who became the next president.

By any measure, the poll suggests that young Americans are anything but apathetic about the presidential election. Fifty-eight percent said they were paying attention to the campaign. By contrast, at this point in the 2004 presidential campaign, 35 percent of 18-to-29-year-olds said they were paying a lot or some attention to the campaign.


In reading the source article, the above was the statistic that jumped out at me the most. I can only assume that the evolving presence of the internet and the near ubiquity of political commentary (even on titty websites!) that takes place on it* has at least some part to play in such a seismic shift in the numbers of young folks paying attention. Or it could just be people really really looking forward to getting W out of office. Regardless, increased participation amongst youth voters (and let’s be frank, it can’t get much worse) can only be a good thing for democracy, even if it’s a bad thing for Republicans.

*In other words, Subrosa is totally taking credit for this. All of it.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

JUN 27, 2007 09:05 PM

More like libertarians gaining weight...

jermhawk

jermhawk

Tidioute, PA
December 2004

JUN 27, 2007 09:09 PM

emotedcreations said:
More like libertarians gaining weight...



agreed!

ardour

ardour

Ottawa, ON
March 2006

JUN 27, 2007 09:14 PM

I'm still not convinced. I can only really remember the last two federal elections and just how disapointing the voter turn out for youths were. I mean, last time should have been motivation enough...

In my country I've not been happy with my choices for Prime Minister, but I still go to vote, even if it's just for a write in candidate. If everyone my age did, the political parties would look at those stats and try and cater more to my ideas. The conservative party wouldn't even be able to exisit. So it's not just about voting for who you want to win. I encourage anyone my age to vote, no matter who! biggrin

gogogone

gogogone

I'm lost
May 2004

JUN 27, 2007 09:22 PM

Thanks, Subrosa! Great article as always.

When interpreting the stats, though, eveyone should bear in mind it was conducted on only 600+ people aged 17-29, so the margin of error is +/- 4 points. When we compare it to older surveys in which the margi of error is not reported, welack the ability to determine if any change has really occured. (I know this sounds absurd, but I work in market research and know how these numbers get twisted out of politics or statistical ignorance).

However, I hope the findings are accurate and my age group has continued to move to the left, but we don't have all the statstical facts to come to conclusions about parameters from the NYT article you quoted. So let's not place any bets just yet.

attn_ho

attn_ho

Brooklyn, NY
February 2004

JUN 27, 2007 09:43 PM

now all we need is a thread titled Republicans Gaining Ground and we'll have a political Milwaulkee Threesome!

Admiral_Pants

Admiral_Pants

Austin, TX
May 2004

JUN 27, 2007 09:59 PM

attn_ho said:
now all we need is a thread titled Republicans Gaining Ground and we'll have a political Milwaulkee Threesome!



Of course, Silliness will boast "Free-Soil Gaining Ground", "Bull Moose Gaining Ground", and maybe even "Know-Nothings Gaining Ground".

freshprncebelair

freshprncebelair

Ellicott City, MD
June 2004

JUN 27, 2007 10:30 PM

Who cares, they don't vote anyways.

I know that has been improving, but the youngins are not a political powerbase

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 27, 2007 11:30 PM

freshprncebelair said:
Who cares, they don't vote anyways.

I know that has been improving, but the youngins are not a political powerbase



Almost 50% of eligible voters in that age group voted in the 2004 election. It's not necessarily a good turnout, but it's not chump change either.

Moreover, you do realize that young people tend to get older eventually, right?

OpticNerve

OpticNerve

Arlington, MA
November 2003

JUN 28, 2007 12:04 AM

Let's hope Hilary does not win the Democratic presidential nomination. I'm hoping for an Obama/Edwards ticket.

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

JUN 28, 2007 01:23 AM

Man, don't be dissing Churchill, he's a prophet, yo!

But seriously, he was a smart man, and I think that quotation is generally true, although nothing applies absolutely, and we must also keep in mind conservative and liberal by his usage don't translate exactly to 2007 American politics--just saying.

But I enjoyed your article as always.

FTR: my original comment was a lame reference to this. I hadn't even read the article at that point, so I'm not sure why jermhawk was so enthusiastic.

aldoushuxley

aldoushuxley

USA
November 2005

JUN 28, 2007 05:47 AM

Screw it, in 08 I am voting for Mcain, I am 21 and the Democratic candidates cannot possibly win that have been chosen. Hillary because she is female and half the country is still uncomfortable with a female president. My personal reasons for hating her, she is a psycho neo communist bitch. Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama. My reasons for Mcain, he's pro war pro military and pro progress, just about every democrat I have seen is pro taxes, and pro programs that they never seem to back up when they get elected. My saying, I used to be a republican until I learned how to read, I used to be a democrat until I learned how to think. Now I am pro military any president who is pro military has my vote.

Bastardo

Bastardo

Boston, MA
January 2005

JUN 28, 2007 06:09 AM

aldoushuxley said:
Screw it, in 08 I am voting for Mcain, I am 21 and the Democratic candidates cannot possibly win that have been chosen. Hillary because she is female and half the country is still uncomfortable with a female president. My personal reasons for hating her, she is a psycho neo communist bitch. Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama. My reasons for Mcain, he's pro war pro military and pro progress, just about every democrat I have seen is pro taxes, and pro programs that they never seem to back up when they get elected. My saying, I used to be a republican until I learned how to read, I used to be a democrat until I learned how to think. Now I am pro military any president who is pro military has my vote.



The mind of the American voter revealed at last!

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 28, 2007 06:54 AM

emotedcreations said:
Man, don't be dissing Churchill, he's a prophet, yo!

But seriously, he was a smart man, and I think that quotation is generally true, although nothing applies absolutely, and we must also keep in mind conservative and liberal by his usage don't translate exactly to 2007 American politics--just saying.



I disagree. I mean, Churchill is Churchill, he's a great wartime leader and someone who helped change the course of history. I'm not really dissing him so much as pointing out that the particular quote is garbage and not even anecdotally true. It legitimizes all sorts of people to forget their convictions and allow themselves to be intellectually and ethically lazy.

Some people get more conservative, some people get more liberal, some stay basically the same. To accuse anyone who doesn't follow the trend he prefers as having "no mind" is pure political hackery.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 28, 2007 06:56 AM

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Mindbinder

Mindbinder

Medford, OR
May 2007

JUN 28, 2007 07:06 AM

Subrosa said:

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.



Don't forget the last name bit, makes for bad slogans.
You invite Osama
If you vote Obama

and such wink

RandomNerd

RandomNerd

I'm lost
January 2005

JUN 28, 2007 07:12 AM

Subrosa said:

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.



I'm worried that he's a target for assassination. Yes,every major political figure is vulnerable, but Obama is Black, and therefore at a much higher risk. Same for Clinton being a woman, really- as much as she irks me, she's gutsy to run for an office that might get her killed. Well they're both pretty gutsy, I mean. I digress.

Also, young people don't drift away from the GOP, they get Driven away from it.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUN 28, 2007 07:17 AM

RandomNerd said:

Subrosa said:

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.



I'm worried that he's a target for assassination. Yes,every major political figure is vulnerable, but Obama is Black, and therefore at a much higher risk. Same for Clinton being a woman, really- as much as she irks me, she's gutsy to run for an office that might get her killed. Well they're both pretty gutsy, I mean. I digress.


While I don't really agree that either would be so much more a threat to be assassinated that it would become an issue much more than it normally is, I am really disheartened by people using that idea as an excuse not to vote for either one of them. It's like saying "because they're so gutsy, I'm going to vote for the other guy!"

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I'm just making a larger point.


Also, young people don't drift away from the GOP, they get Driven away from it.


Ain't that the truth.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

JUN 28, 2007 07:18 AM

Subrosa said:

emotedcreations said:
Man, don't be dissing Churchill, he's a prophet, yo!

But seriously, he was a smart man, and I think that quotation is generally true, although nothing applies absolutely, and we must also keep in mind conservative and liberal by his usage don't translate exactly to 2007 American politics--just saying.



I disagree. I mean, Churchill is Churchill, he's a great wartime leader and someone who helped change the course of history. I'm not really dissing him so much as pointing out that the particular quote is garbage and not even anecdotally true. It legitimizes all sorts of people to forget their convictions and allow themselves to be intellectually and ethically lazy.

Some people get more conservative, some people get more liberal, some stay basically the same. To accuse anyone who doesn't follow the trend he prefers as having "no mind" is pure political hackery.



I agree.

I just wish we could say that people got to be better thinkers as they got older.

Sadly we cannot.

I want people who say they are not conservative or progressive. I want people who analyze issues and understand the there is no "right" way. There is just a way that may seem right at the time. After that the law of unintended consequences holds sway.

/rant

Mindbinder

Mindbinder

Medford, OR
May 2007

JUN 28, 2007 07:20 AM

RandomNerd said:

Subrosa said:

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.



I'm worried that he's a target for assassination. Yes,every major political figure is vulnerable, but Obama is Black, and therefore at a much higher risk. Same for Clinton being a woman, really- as much as she irks me, she's gutsy to run for an office that might get her killed. Well they're both pretty gutsy, I mean. I digress.

Also, young people don't drift away from the GOP, they get Driven away from it.



There has never been a black or female president, so there is no precedent (weird) to base that theory on. Yes, racism and sexism are still issues in America but with the current presidents approval ratings you'd think he'd be a bigger target..

ardour

ardour

Ottawa, ON
March 2006

JUN 28, 2007 08:12 AM

I also find it funny how many people vote based on who they think is going to win. Some people vote as if it's a game. They want to be the one who voted for the winner. Hilarious, if not a little scary.

_kungfoo_

_kungfoo_

Los Angeles, CA
April 2005

JUN 28, 2007 09:00 AM

aldoushuxley said:
Screw it, in 08 I am voting for Mcain, I am 21 and the Democratic candidates cannot possibly win that have been chosen. Hillary because she is female and half the country is still uncomfortable with a female president. My personal reasons for hating her, she is a psycho neo communist bitch. Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama. My reasons for Mcain, he's pro war pro military and pro progress, just about every democrat I have seen is pro taxes, and pro programs that they never seem to back up when they get elected. My saying, I used to be a republican until I learned how to read, I used to be a democrat until I learned how to think. Now I am pro military any president who is pro military has my vote.



Haha, another classic aldoushuxley post. I guess that Fox News really does work on some people.

Karuna

Karuna

Butler, PA
April 2007

JUN 28, 2007 09:43 AM

Mindbinder said:

RandomNerd said:

Subrosa said:

aldoushuxley said:
Obama, he's going to lose a lot of southern voters for his skin color, and frankly his last name sounds remarkably like Osama.



So, you're not going to vote for Obama because other people are racist and you don't want to vote for a loser.

Makes perfect sense to me.



I'm worried that he's a target for assassination. Yes,every major political figure is vulnerable, but Obama is Black, and therefore at a much higher risk. Same for Clinton being a woman, really- as much as she irks me, she's gutsy to run for an office that might get her killed. Well they're both pretty gutsy, I mean. I digress.

Also, young people don't drift away from the GOP, they get Driven away from it.



There has never been a black or female president, so there is no precedent (weird) to base that theory on. Yes, racism and sexism are still issues in America but with the current presidents approval ratings you'd think he'd be a bigger target..



Seriously! I'm amazed that no one's tried to take that guy out yet!

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

JUN 28, 2007 09:59 AM

Subrosa said:


Moreover, you do realize that young people tend to get older eventually, right?



THAT is a LIE ! Take it back !

emotedcreations

emotedcreations

Germany
July 2006

JUN 28, 2007 11:51 AM

Subrosa said:

emotedcreations said:
Man, don't be dissing Churchill, he's a prophet, yo!

But seriously, he was a smart man, and I think that quotation is generally true, although nothing applies absolutely, and we must also keep in mind conservative and liberal by his usage don't translate exactly to 2007 American politics--just saying.



I disagree. I mean, Churchill is Churchill, he's a great wartime leader and someone who helped change the course of history. I'm not really dissing him so much as pointing out that the particular quote is garbage and not even anecdotally true. It legitimizes all sorts of people to forget their convictions and allow themselves to be intellectually and ethically lazy.

Some people get more conservative, some people get more liberal, some stay basically the same. To accuse anyone who doesn't follow the trend he prefers as having "no mind" is pure political hackery.

Sorry, apparently I need to up the sarcasm next time. Too subtle? Of course not everyone follows that trend. I mean shit, not a single one of my grandparents were/are conservative. They're all pretty damn liberal. But my serious point had more to with conceptions of liberal and conservative that aren't attached to political ideas necessarily. Conservative being "those damn kids with their crazy hair and their cellphones" something along those lines. Does that make sense or no? Whether that's what Churchill meant is open for debate--that's why I mentioned the difference in geography and time. Anyway...

Oh yeah, and I certainly by no means meant to insinuate that people who don't follow this trend have "no mind".

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