TOPICS:
zarth
Seattle, WA
December 2004
JUN 22, 2007 11:47 AM
I was reading about this earlier today. What gets me, first, that the inspections he's refusing to allow are for the express purpose of maintaining the integrity of classified documents - something you'd think he'd support in principle, but apparently not when it involves anyone else's jurisdictional authority.
Secondly, while his argument seems pretty weak to me (that the Vice President's office is not part of the Executive because it has a ceremonial Legislative function? I mean, really - was that the obvious intent of the Framers?), even if it did have merit, I can't imagine a legitimate reason why he would choose to exercise such a privilege even if he possessed it.
JUN 22, 2007 12:02 PM
Yet more evidence that America is a dictatorship in practice. Signing statements, lying to congress and the public, overt secrecy, fervent religiousity, arrogance and hubris around the clock, disasterous pre-emptive foreign policy, false flags, taxpayer funded propaganda, false dilemma propositions, orwellian policy initiatives, general planet wrecking and environmental desecration, junk science, corporatist profiteering and cronyism...on and on it rolls...and that's only the half of it.
We've seen this past half year- Over half the public supports impeachment. About half the public wants a new investigation of 9/11 (much higher in urban areas, esp. NY). Over 75% want single payer healthcare. Almost 2/3 want to get out of Iraq by year's end. Over 70% oppose torture and violation of habeas corpus. Yet the Dems want none of it as majority opposition in congress. They just sit there (most of them) collecting lobbyist coin and tax money. The whole system stinks to high heaven...where ever that may be.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." Sinclair Lewis
And in Cheney's case, carrying a gun.
JUN 22, 2007 12:02 PM
Zarth said:
I can't imagine a legitimate reason why he would choose to exercise such a privilege even if he possessed it.
He doesn't need a legitimate reason. He's Dick Cheney. A central belief of the Bush Administration is that they are not bound by things like the law and the Constitution. It could be he's actually got something to hide, or it could be an attempt to assert that he and his office are not subjects of the law.
JUN 22, 2007 12:04 PM
I think this counts as a dare. "Just try and stop me. Uh huh. That's what I thought. Oh yeah, AND what?"
He's so scary!
JUN 22, 2007 12:04 PM
What a dipshit....I'm getting more and more fed up with his crap, and I'm wondering how much longer it's gonna be before the rest of the government does something about it...
JUN 22, 2007 12:08 PM
meggle said:
And in Cheney's case, carrying a gun.
I promise you, When that happens, Cheney won't be the only one carrying a gun...
zarth
Seattle, WA
December 2004
JUN 22, 2007 12:14 PM
smithers_jones said:
Zarth said:
I can't imagine a legitimate reason why he would choose to exercise such a privilege even if he possessed it.
He doesn't need a legitimate reason. He's Dick Cheney. A central belief of the Bush Administration is that they are not bound by things like the law and the Constitution. It could be he's actually got something to hide, or it could be an attempt to assert that he and his office are not subjects of the law.
That's exactly it. Everything' a fucking pissing contest with him - he's like a goddamn four-year old with a marker.
SnowgodCCR said:
meggle said:
And in Cheney's case, carrying a gun.
I promise you, When that happens, Cheney won't be the only one carrying a gun...
JUN 22, 2007 12:51 PM
White House spokeswoman gets all tongue twistedy.
Reporter: So [the vice president] is exempt from reporting; you support that?
Perino: Under the E.O., the president, in the performance of executive duties, and the vice president are treated separately from agencies. The president did not intend -- and I went back and looked into this -- the president did not intend for the vice president to be treated separately from how he would treat himself. Agencies are to report to ISOO, and they do. I don't think there's any suggestion that no one else is complying. And the vice president was not intended to be separate from the president in this regard. . . .
Reporter: So, Dana, what are you saying? So the president supports the vice president saying that he doesn't want these inspections?
Perino: I don't think that he doesn't -- it's not a matter of wanting; it's a matter of who is subject to them. And I think that it's important to remember, it's -- the vice president, his office yesterday said that they are in full compliance with all laws regarding classified materials, as is this president. And the president expects that of everyone here at the White House, and of all the agencies across the executive branch that handle classified information.
Reporter: So he's supporting what the vice president is doing, saying he's not part of the executive...
Perino: If you would go back and you read the E.O., it's -- the president's intention was never to separate the vice president out from himself. The president, as the sole enforcer of the E.O., is instructing agencies on how to handle classified material on a range of issues. The issue that we were talking about yesterday -- that Chairman Waxman was talking about in his letter yesterday is a very narrow one.
Reporter: But the people at the National Archives say that they are meeting with resistance from the vice president's office, and only the vice president's office, not from the White House, not from the Office of the President.
Perino: That's what I just said. I don't think that there's any -- think there's been any complaint about compliance except for, in this regard, to the vice president's office. . . . All of of the president's documents and all the vice president's documents are safeguarded. They are held. They are held in the archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. And all of those rules and regulation are followed. The small section, regarding just the reporting requirements to this group, ISOO, that's out of the National Archives, is different.
Reporter: Why? [Cheney]'s a public servant, paid by us. He's accountable.
Perino: And all the laws and regulations regarding classified materials are being complied with. And that's what you as a taxpayer should expect.
Reporter: How do we know that?
Perino: Because I think that if they weren't, there are other ways where people could challenge him. . . .
Reporter: Does the president think the vice president is too secretive?
Perino: I think the president thinks that the vice president is a great representer of the United States, and that he complies with all the laws regarding secret documents, classified documents, and that he's someone who truly believes in the institution of the presidency and in keeping that intact.
zarth
Seattle, WA
December 2004
JUN 22, 2007 12:54 PM
FearTheReaper said:
White House spokeswoman gets all tongue twistedy.
Reporter: So [the vice president] is exempt from reporting; you support that?
Perino: Under the E.O., the president, in the performance of executive duties, and the vice president are treated separately from agencies. The president did not intend -- and I went back and looked into this -- the president did not intend for the vice president to be treated separately from how he would treat himself. Agencies are to report to ISOO, and they do. I don't think there's any suggestion that no one else is complying. And the vice president was not intended to be separate from the president in this regard. . . .
Reporter: So, Dana, what are you saying? So the president supports the vice president saying that he doesn't want these inspections?
Perino: I don't think that he doesn't -- it's not a matter of wanting; it's a matter of who is subject to them. And I think that it's important to remember, it's -- the vice president, his office yesterday said that they are in full compliance with all laws regarding classified materials, as is this president. And the president expects that of everyone here at the White House, and of all the agencies across the executive branch that handle classified information.
Reporter: So he's supporting what the vice president is doing, saying he's not part of the executive...
Perino: If you would go back and you read the E.O., it's -- the president's intention was never to separate the vice president out from himself. The president, as the sole enforcer of the E.O., is instructing agencies on how to handle classified material on a range of issues. The issue that we were talking about yesterday -- that Chairman Waxman was talking about in his letter yesterday is a very narrow one.
Reporter: But the people at the National Archives say that they are meeting with resistance from the vice president's office, and only the vice president's office, not from the White House, not from the Office of the President.
Perino: That's what I just said. I don't think that there's any -- think there's been any complaint about compliance except for, in this regard, to the vice president's office. . . . All of of the president's documents and all the vice president's documents are safeguarded. They are held. They are held in the archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. And all of those rules and regulation are followed. The small section, regarding just the reporting requirements to this group, ISOO, that's out of the National Archives, is different.
Reporter: Why? [Cheney]'s a public servant, paid by us. He's accountable.
Perino: And all the laws and regulations regarding classified materials are being complied with. And that's what you as a taxpayer should expect.
Reporter: How do we know that?
Perino: Because I think that if they weren't, there are other ways where people could challenge him. . . .
Reporter: Does the president think the vice president is too secretive?
Perino: I think the president thinks that the vice president is a great representer of the United States, and that he complies with all the laws regarding secret documents, classified documents, and that he's someone who truly believes in the institution of the presidency and in keeping that intact.
That was fucking hilarious.
JUN 22, 2007 12:59 PM
I am vehemently NOT a conspiracy theorist - but I have to wonder: what in the fuck is Dick Cheney hiding? I mean, we already know he rigged the energy committee and the whole fucking war in Iraq. Does he have a dead body stuffed in a fucking closet that he's afraid the National Archives is going to find? Maybe he likes to hump said dead body, and is just afraid they'll tag it and stick it in the Archives somewhere, making it hard for him to access?
I mean, as Zarth notes, this is prolly just a pissing contest to show everyone who the big man in the White House is. But it seems so ludicrous - I can't help but imagine something more sinister.
JUN 22, 2007 01:12 PM
I would go along with Zarth's theory were it not for the suspicious timing. Cheney could have made this stance at any time but he chose to stonewall right when the Plame investigation heated up. And the fact that Libby was convicted of obstruction probably means there is something he is hiding.
JUN 22, 2007 01:13 PM
FearTheReaper said:
White House spokeswoman gets all tongue twistedy.
Reporter: So [the vice president] is exempt from reporting; you support that?
Perino: Under the E.O., the president, in the performance of executive duties, and the vice president are treated separately from agencies. The president did not intend -- and I went back and looked into this -- the president did not intend for the vice president to be treated separately from how he would treat himself. Agencies are to report to ISOO, and they do. I don't think there's any suggestion that no one else is complying. And the vice president was not intended to be separate from the president in this regard. . . .
Reporter: So, Dana, what are you saying? So the president supports the vice president saying that he doesn't want these inspections?
Perino: I don't think that he doesn't -- it's not a matter of wanting; it's a matter of who is subject to them. And I think that it's important to remember, it's -- the vice president, his office yesterday said that they are in full compliance with all laws regarding classified materials, as is this president. And the president expects that of everyone here at the White House, and of all the agencies across the executive branch that handle classified information.
Reporter: So he's supporting what the vice president is doing, saying he's not part of the executive...
Perino: If you would go back and you read the E.O., it's -- the president's intention was never to separate the vice president out from himself. The president, as the sole enforcer of the E.O., is instructing agencies on how to handle classified material on a range of issues. The issue that we were talking about yesterday -- that Chairman Waxman was talking about in his letter yesterday is a very narrow one.
Reporter: But the people at the National Archives say that they are meeting with resistance from the vice president's office, and only the vice president's office, not from the White House, not from the Office of the President.
Perino: That's what I just said. I don't think that there's any -- think there's been any complaint about compliance except for, in this regard, to the vice president's office. . . . All of of the president's documents and all the vice president's documents are safeguarded. They are held. They are held in the archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. And all of those rules and regulation are followed. The small section, regarding just the reporting requirements to this group, ISOO, that's out of the National Archives, is different.
Reporter: Why? [Cheney]'s a public servant, paid by us. He's accountable.
Perino: And all the laws and regulations regarding classified materials are being complied with. And that's what you as a taxpayer should expect.
Reporter: How do we know that?
Perino: Because I think that if they weren't, there are other ways where people could challenge him. . . .
Reporter: Does the president think the vice president is too secretive?
Perino: I think the president thinks that the vice president is a great representer of the United States, and that he complies with all the laws regarding secret documents, classified documents, and that he's someone who truly believes in the institution of the presidency and in keeping that intact.
So many words when a simple "Nes" would suffice.
JUN 22, 2007 01:15 PM
smithers_jones said:
FearTheReaper said:
White House spokeswoman gets all tongue twistedy.
Reporter: So [the vice president] is exempt from reporting; you support that?
Perino: Under the E.O., the president, in the performance of executive duties, and the vice president are treated separately from agencies. The president did not intend -- and I went back and looked into this -- the president did not intend for the vice president to be treated separately from how he would treat himself. Agencies are to report to ISOO, and they do. I don't think there's any suggestion that no one else is complying. And the vice president was not intended to be separate from the president in this regard. . . .
Reporter: So, Dana, what are you saying? So the president supports the vice president saying that he doesn't want these inspections?
Perino: I don't think that he doesn't -- it's not a matter of wanting; it's a matter of who is subject to them. And I think that it's important to remember, it's -- the vice president, his office yesterday said that they are in full compliance with all laws regarding classified materials, as is this president. And the president expects that of everyone here at the White House, and of all the agencies across the executive branch that handle classified information.
Reporter: So he's supporting what the vice president is doing, saying he's not part of the executive...
Perino: If you would go back and you read the E.O., it's -- the president's intention was never to separate the vice president out from himself. The president, as the sole enforcer of the E.O., is instructing agencies on how to handle classified material on a range of issues. The issue that we were talking about yesterday -- that Chairman Waxman was talking about in his letter yesterday is a very narrow one.
Reporter: But the people at the National Archives say that they are meeting with resistance from the vice president's office, and only the vice president's office, not from the White House, not from the Office of the President.
Perino: That's what I just said. I don't think that there's any -- think there's been any complaint about compliance except for, in this regard, to the vice president's office. . . . All of of the president's documents and all the vice president's documents are safeguarded. They are held. They are held in the archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. And all of those rules and regulation are followed. The small section, regarding just the reporting requirements to this group, ISOO, that's out of the National Archives, is different.
Reporter: Why? [Cheney]'s a public servant, paid by us. He's accountable.
Perino: And all the laws and regulations regarding classified materials are being complied with. And that's what you as a taxpayer should expect.
Reporter: How do we know that?
Perino: Because I think that if they weren't, there are other ways where people could challenge him. . . .
Reporter: Does the president think the vice president is too secretive?
Perino: I think the president thinks that the vice president is a great representer of the United States, and that he complies with all the laws regarding secret documents, classified documents, and that he's someone who truly believes in the institution of the presidency and in keeping that intact.
So many words when a simple "Nes" would suffice.
- said the man who is quite economical with his words.
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
JUN 22, 2007 01:15 PM
SignalNoise said:
I am vehemently NOT a conspiracy theorist - but I have to wonder: what in the fuck is Dick Cheney hiding? I mean, we already know he rigged the energy committee and the whole fucking war in Iraq. Does he have a dead body stuffed in a fucking closet that he's afraid the National Archives is going to find? Maybe he likes to hump said dead body, and is just afraid they'll tag it and stick it in the Archives somewhere, making it hard for him to access?
I mean, as Zarth notes, this is prolly just a pissing contest to show everyone who the big man in the White House is. But it seems so ludicrous - I can't help but imagine something more sinister.
I'm still trying to absorb this and to be honest I can't figure out the logic behind it. Maybe he's just trying to fuck with the conspiracy theorists? He IS an asshole.
JUN 22, 2007 01:16 PM
FearTheReaper said:
I would go along with Zarth's theory were it not for the suspicious timing. Cheney could have made this stance at any time but he chose to stonewall right when the Plame investigation heated up. And the fact that Libby was convicted of obstruction probably means there is something he is hiding.
One thing to remember is that Bush and Cheney value the "Unitary Executive" theory more than just about anything, so they won't budge an inch when the powers and privileges they assume the Executive branch has are challenged by anybody outside of the Executive branch.
Congress could ask Cheney to give them a notarized list of his favorite cheeses and he'd flip out and claim that Congress can't order him to do anything due to their supposed complete lack of oversight power.
Not that Cheney isn't probably hiding a mountain and a half of documents pertaining to an assortment of fucked up shit (sorry to use such an obscure legal term).
JUN 22, 2007 01:20 PM
Zarth said:
SnowgodCCR said:
meggle said:
And in Cheney's case, carrying a gun.
I promise you, When that happens, Cheney won't be the only one carrying a gun...
Point? That one was a hunting accident, it happens all the time (granted I would rather see him doing his JOB [better] than going out hunting...it's not like we don't have fairly pressing problems or anything). I don't hold it against him. Everything else, I hold against him...
Quirky
Birmingham, AL
October 2005
JUN 22, 2007 01:20 PM
lol "Representer."
JUN 22, 2007 01:20 PM
I'm speechless. I'm shocked, but then again, I'm really not. I guess I'm just surprised we [as a country] let it get to this point.
JUN 22, 2007 01:28 PM
Uncognitive said:
FearTheReaper said:
I would go along with Zarth's theory were it not for the suspicious timing. Cheney could have made this stance at any time but he chose to stonewall right when the Plame investigation heated up. And the fact that Libby was convicted of obstruction probably means there is something he is hiding.
One thing to remember is that Bush and Cheney value the "Unitary Executive" theory more than just about anything, so they won't budge an inch when the powers and privileges they assume the Executive branch has are challenged by anybody outside of the Executive branch.
Congress could ask Cheney to give them a notarized list of his favorite cheeses and he'd flip out and claim that Congress can't order him to do anything due to their supposed complete lack of oversight power.
Not that Cheney isn't probably hiding a mountain and a half of documents pertaining to an assortment of fucked up shit (sorry to use such an obscure legal term).
I totally get that, but in this case he is refusing an executive order. So, does not really fit in with the Unitary Executive Theory - unless he is creating a new Vice Unitary Executive Theory
JUN 22, 2007 01:30 PM
Never play "Rock, Papers, Scissors" against Cheney.
"Vice-Executive Rock" beats everything.
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
JUN 22, 2007 01:31 PM
KUNGFOO said:
SignalNoise said:
I am vehemently NOT a conspiracy theorist - but I have to wonder: what in the fuck is Dick Cheney hiding? I mean, we already know he rigged the energy committee and the whole fucking war in Iraq. Does he have a dead body stuffed in a fucking closet that he's afraid the National Archives is going to find? Maybe he likes to hump said dead body, and is just afraid they'll tag it and stick it in the Archives somewhere, making it hard for him to access?
I mean, as Zarth notes, this is prolly just a pissing contest to show everyone who the big man in the White House is. But it seems so ludicrous - I can't help but imagine something more sinister.
I'm still trying to absorb this and to be honest I can't figure out the logic behind it. Maybe he's just trying to fuck with the conspiracy theorists? He IS an asshole.
Nevermind.
_kungfoo_
Los Angeles, CA
April 2005
JUN 22, 2007 01:35 PM
I'm a bit stunned on this one. Not because the Bush Regime is making up new rules on how the government works.
The Office of the Vice President has asserted that it is not an "entity within the executive branch" and hence is not subject to presidential executive orders.
Just because they think this excuse will fly. Cheney must be feeling pretty confident or just trying to buy time until his escape pod is built.
JUN 22, 2007 01:41 PM
FearTheReaper said:
smithers_jones said:
FearTheReaper said:
White House spokeswoman gets all tongue twistedy.
Reporter: So [the vice president] is exempt from reporting; you support that?
Perino: Under the E.O., the president, in the performance of executive duties, and the vice president are treated separately from agencies. The president did not intend -- and I went back and looked into this -- the president did not intend for the vice president to be treated separately from how he would treat himself. Agencies are to report to ISOO, and they do. I don't think there's any suggestion that no one else is complying. And the vice president was not intended to be separate from the president in this regard. . . .
Reporter: So, Dana, what are you saying? So the president supports the vice president saying that he doesn't want these inspections?
Perino: I don't think that he doesn't -- it's not a matter of wanting; it's a matter of who is subject to them. And I think that it's important to remember, it's -- the vice president, his office yesterday said that they are in full compliance with all laws regarding classified materials, as is this president. And the president expects that of everyone here at the White House, and of all the agencies across the executive branch that handle classified information.
Reporter: So he's supporting what the vice president is doing, saying he's not part of the executive...
Perino: If you would go back and you read the E.O., it's -- the president's intention was never to separate the vice president out from himself. The president, as the sole enforcer of the E.O., is instructing agencies on how to handle classified material on a range of issues. The issue that we were talking about yesterday -- that Chairman Waxman was talking about in his letter yesterday is a very narrow one.
Reporter: But the people at the National Archives say that they are meeting with resistance from the vice president's office, and only the vice president's office, not from the White House, not from the Office of the President.
Perino: That's what I just said. I don't think that there's any -- think there's been any complaint about compliance except for, in this regard, to the vice president's office. . . . All of of the president's documents and all the vice president's documents are safeguarded. They are held. They are held in the archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. And all of those rules and regulation are followed. The small section, regarding just the reporting requirements to this group, ISOO, that's out of the National Archives, is different.
Reporter: Why? [Cheney]'s a public servant, paid by us. He's accountable.
Perino: And all the laws and regulations regarding classified materials are being complied with. And that's what you as a taxpayer should expect.
Reporter: How do we know that?
Perino: Because I think that if they weren't, there are other ways where people could challenge him. . . .
Reporter: Does the president think the vice president is too secretive?
Perino: I think the president thinks that the vice president is a great representer of the United States, and that he complies with all the laws regarding secret documents, classified documents, and that he's someone who truly believes in the institution of the presidency and in keeping that intact.
So many words when a simple "Nes" would suffice.
- said the man who is quite economical with his words.
My father was a gentleman and he taught me that when one has nothing relevant to say, or when one is actually trying to say nothing, one should say it, or not say it, in as few words as possible.
JUN 22, 2007 01:44 PM
Cheney is bound and determined and to turn back the clock to 1973.
He wants to undo all that messy liberal shit that got started after Nixon screwed the pooch.
FearTheReaper
NEWSWIRE
I'm lost
JUN 22, 2007 11:32 AM