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MessyJessy

MessyJessy

Fort Myers, FL
August 2005

JUN 19, 2007 07:21 PM

AmalgamSwitch said:

HelloCentral said:
I think it should help in Darfur, but that's another story and I bet you liberals would find something to crow on about that as well if we did.



No, liberals want us to intervene in Darfur. It's the trendiest cause to get behind by far. All the actors and musicians are doing it. And at the same time they cry foul over Iraq 24/7. And no one has picked up on the irony yet. I want us to go to Darfur just so they can feel stupid later.



NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

JUN 20, 2007 04:50 AM

MessyJessy said:

AmalgamSwitch said:

HelloCentral said:
I think it should help in Darfur, but that's another story and I bet you liberals would find something to crow on about that as well if we did.



No, liberals want us to intervene in Darfur. It's the trendiest cause to get behind by far. All the actors and musicians are doing it. And at the same time they cry foul over Iraq 24/7. And no one has picked up on the irony yet. I want us to go to Darfur just so they can feel stupid later.





SG wingnuts, for when you're feeling less than fresh.

thisismyurl

thisismyurl

Fredericton, NB
April 2007

JUN 22, 2007 11:46 AM

handsome_rob said:
i guess the most common sense thing to me (though not necessarliy the humane thing) is to let them kill each other and let allah sort it out. because it looks like we'll never be able to stop the senseless killing.



just an fyi, lots of Palestinians are Christians .. Allah isn't going to help them much. As to the rest, these people have been living in Jewish run prison camps for 50 years, I think they have the right to be pretty pissed off at this point.

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUN 22, 2007 08:44 PM

FearTheReaper said:
You are a remarkable tool. I am putting you on ignore.

That's one method that is easier than honest debate.

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUN 22, 2007 08:54 PM

thisismyurl said:living in Jewish run prison camps for 50 years, I think they have the right to be pretty pissed off at this point.

It's that simple is it? The failed Palestinian leadership has nothing to do with it? The inability to accept a two-state solution for decades, starting in 1947 and the latest attempt under Bill Clinton...no comments at all for the Palestinian leadership....just a "blame the Jews" mentality? What next? Revive the canard of the Jews killing Christ? Don't forget we love Christian baby blood for our matzahs also.

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

USA
OLD SKOOL

JUN 22, 2007 10:29 PM

goatinamoat said:

FearTheReaper said:
You are a remarkable tool. I am putting you on ignore.

That's one method that is easier than honest debate.



Yeah, because your method of saying HOW DARE YOU!!!! instead of actually refuting points with evidence to the contrary is totally honest debate.

Keri

Keri

SUICIDEGIRL

Virginia, USA

JUN 23, 2007 10:46 AM

InnocentSid said:
Dubya is just counting the days when someone else has to clean up the mess he left!

There is no doubt he is the worst American president ever...or at least since Buchanan.



You mean since Harding

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUN 24, 2007 12:23 PM

BlastProcessing said:
Yeah, because your method of saying HOW DARE YOU!!!! instead of actually refuting points with evidence to the contrary is totally honest debate.

I cannot imagine having to refute a comparision of the Nazi regime with any US administration. That strains all understanding of credibility.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUN 24, 2007 12:31 PM

I don't know. Six million dead Indians might disagree with you. If they weren't dead, that is.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUN 24, 2007 07:07 PM

I can't believe it took me this long to figure out who goatinamoat was. Dammit.

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUN 25, 2007 04:43 PM

Zarth said:
I don't know. Six million dead Indians might disagree with you. If they weren't dead, that is.

I honestly don't know how many Indians were killed by the white man, but to put just the US into this mix without including the Spanish would be shortsighted. However, you do have a good point. A much more intelligent reply than "I know who goatinthemoat is." Sigh. That said, I still would not compare Bush/Cheney to what happened to the Indians nor to the Nazis. There is such a thing as scale. All evils are not equal.

Chainlink

Chainlink

Key West, FL
August 2005

JUN 25, 2007 04:49 PM

goatinamoat said:

Zarth said:
I don't know. Six million dead Indians might disagree with you. If they weren't dead, that is.

I honestly don't know how many Indians were killed by the white man, but to put just the US into this mix without including the Spanish would be shortsighted. However, you do have a good point. A much more intelligent reply than "I know who goatinthemoat is." Sigh. That said, I still would not compare Bush/Cheney to what happened to the Indians nor to the Nazis. There is such a thing as scale. All evils are not equal.



but you said ANY U.S. administration, not Bush/Cheney.

and i STILL don't know who goatinmoat is.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUN 26, 2007 01:04 AM

Actually, I guess I'm wrong. He was just strongly reminding me of UpTight, who was fond of sudden name changes. But the man doesn't live in America, and is probably still going by laughingboy after all.

So, yeah. Nevermind. Carry on.

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

JUN 26, 2007 07:59 AM

herbancowboy said:

FearTheReaper said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

AmnSpecial said:

FearTheReaper said:
Anybody else speak retarded because I couldn't figure that out.



How dare I post something that contradicts your opinion... you're right, I must be retarded.



Actually your opinion is do deluded and not based in reality that it is not worth addressing. Really quite an accomlishment for a message board.

Do you get your information from unicorns?



I found this strangely sexy
surreal

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUL 04, 2007 09:51 AM

I am new to the forums; I don't know who laughingboy is. Maybe he is someone that doesn't tow the liberal line? I see the forums are fairly hostile to those that don't have liberal views. It may be better just to lurk and not converse. I don't think people here really want their beliefs challenged.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUL 04, 2007 11:21 AM

goatinamoat said:

Zarth said:
I don't know. Six million dead Indians might disagree with you. If they weren't dead, that is.


I honestly don't know how many Indians were killed by the white man, but to put just the US into this mix without including the Spanish would be shortsighted. However, you do have a good point. A much more intelligent reply than "I know who goatinthemoat is." Sigh. That said, I still would not compare Bush/Cheney to what happened to the Indians nor to the Nazis. There is such a thing as scale. All evils are not equal.


No, all evils are not equal, I agree. But when it comes to genocides, I would hold that the differences are quantitative rather qualitative. The Holocaust was almost certainly the worst atrocity humans have ever deliberately inflicted upon their fellow men (with the arguable exceptions of certain Stalinist and Maoist actions), but it was scarcely uniquely evil, and the paths that led to it could be followed anywhere, by nearly anyone.

As far as Iraq is concerned, it's not a genocidal situation - at least as yet. There are definitely indications that it could become one, however, and whether or not that happens is not something that this administration shows any sign of being able to influence positively.

I would actually like to be proved wrong on that.

But even so, the war must stand as a black mark against our good name insofar as it was both catastrophic in its effects and unnecessary in its origins. It has been, effectively, an unmitigated crime against the people of Iraq (who are neither more free nor more secure than when we invaded), and a disastrous and dishonorable misuse of our soldiers.

I don't know what the solution is. I frankly doubt there is one, or at least a viable one. I can say, however, that this is not a crisis that couldn't have been both predicted and avoided with very little consequence, and for that, this administration deserves the full blame and moral censure.

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

USA
OLD SKOOL

JUL 04, 2007 11:27 AM

goatinamoat said:

I am new to the forums; I don't know who laughingboy is. Maybe he is someone that doesn't tow the liberal line? I see the forums are fairly hostile to those that don't have liberal views. It may be better just to lurk and not converse. I don't think people here really want their beliefs challenged.



1) The correct use of the phrase is toe the line, and 2) it's not the challenge itself as much as it is the poorly-executed hamfistedness of the typical attempt.

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUL 04, 2007 05:16 PM

BlastProcessing said:The correct use of the phrase is toe the line.

I stand corrected.

goatinamoat

goatinamoat

New York, NY
March 2006

JUL 04, 2007 05:32 PM

BlastProcessing said:
poorly-executed hamfistedness of the typical attempt.



Fear the Reaper starts this thread wtih the hypothesis that George Bush is an idiot; I think this tone invites "hamfistedness." Regardless that was not what I was trying to do and if I came across that way, I apologize.

Looking to the recent post FTR has on Michael Moore, he says anyone who is not in favor of universal health care is a "moron." With this sort of slant, I think anyone who has an opposing view is setup to be "talked at" and verbally spit upon in such a forum. I admit that in political forums I am not a stranger to tough talk, but I am used to the moderators having a more civil tone and attempting to structure the discussions where give and take is welcome. Here it seems FTR posts and then it's up to everyone else to say, in some form or another "Yes I agree with you." Frankly, this becomes nothing more than an adversarial atmosphere to anyone who disagrees with the thread starter. Time for me to wind down what little I have done so far on the SG political forum; this is just not for me -- and again, it's not about the content; it's about the vitriol.

I can't help but think that if SG had someone like Zarth moderating/starting these threads, an actual circulation of ideas would be fostered.

Zarth

zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

JUL 04, 2007 05:40 PM

Oh, fuck. Yeah, call their attention to me, why don't you? Asshole. Now it's just a matter of time till Zarth.

Oh, well. All good things . . .

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUL 04, 2007 10:44 PM

goatinamoat said:

I am new to the forums; I don't know who laughingboy is. Maybe he is someone that doesn't tow the liberal line? I see the forums are fairly hostile to those that don't have liberal views. It may be better just to lurk and not converse. I don't think people here really want their beliefs challenged.



I don't know. I would actively welcome any conservatives (or indeed non-liberals of whatever stripe) to these boards provided they were willing to engage in mannered, reasoned debate, preferably with credible sources to back up factual claims.

Unfortunately, this happens with depressing rarity. I think for one thing it's awfully tough to come up with reasoned defenses of the current administration. (Though there are a fair number of conservatives willing to concede that particular point.)

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUL 05, 2007 05:49 PM

And yet so many radishes have internet connections. It's amazing.

Drock1205

Drock1205

Merrick, NY
June 2007

JUL 06, 2007 08:15 AM

Not sure if it has been mentioned, so flame me if it has;

A basic dictate of political theory is that the basis of democracies is a large, educated middle class. Throughout history, when a middle class forms, they begin to want better representation to have a say in their affairs with their newfound wealth and power. As their children become educated, they demand more power in governing their affairs as well. The problem isn't with Bush, or Democrats, but mainly because of many modern governments failure to grasp that there is no easy answer. These countries that need to be 'freed' of religious control and totalitarian regimes cannot be truly free until they have a hungry, educated middle class. The problem is recognizing that allowing that class to form (not have sanctions and so forth) is the strongest weapon. However, this is not a given either, as the totalitarian regimes will appropriate as much as they can for their own wealth, as well as take credit for the little bit the people get. It's a horrendous catch 22. Even Iran, which has over time demanded more freedoms as a middle, educated class formed, still is bound by the dual tug of 'who do we owe our fortune to.' Contrast that with China, which has become a more Socialist Democracy than Communist State in many ways with the advent of cities and trade.

These countries do not have a basis of historical democracy, nor do they have an easy way to form an educated middle class that values secular representation. Instead the are controlled by regimes that feed into a much larger and easily controled lower class; those are the dictates of a dictatorship or communist state.

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