NickFaust said:
[COMMENTS REDACTED FOR SIMPLICITY]
Funny, my comment was not about militant Islam, which has arisen in large part from the imperial imposition of western modernization on a non-Christian agrarian culture, but about Muslims in general, who far outnumber Islamic militants.
Let us also not forget that Western powers (Britain & U.S.) helped give rise to the modern militant Islamic movement by supporting totalitarian monarchies and regimes throughout the Mid-East to South Asian region. The spread of Wahabbism, arguably one of the strictest, violent interpretations of Islam, is largely due to it's greatest and wealthiest benefactor, Saudi Arabia (our "greatest" ally in the region). After their success in defeating the Ottoman Empire with the support of British allies, they were able to re-establish control in the religious heart of the Muslim world. Since then it has spread well beyond the Saudi kingdom and has been adopted by several Sunni extremist groups.
During the "Cold War", the US, Saudi, Chinese and other governments wanted to curb the expansion of Soviet power within the region. They found their answer in the mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan who'd resisted the Soviet backed government within Afghanistan. These mujahideen consisted of local Afghanis and an international group of Muslims (many Arabic) pursing the call for jihad against the invading Russians. The mujahideen were provided military material, intelligence, training and other monetary support by the CIA until the end of the conflict. We of course know the call for jihad didn't end with the conflict in Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden's Al Quieda network refocused the jihad against the very Western powers who had trained and supplied them. This distinct threat has now become muddled in the tempest of conflicts that have since engulfed the region after the second invasion of Afghanistan by western powers...
Not all Muslims who are engaged in military struggle share the same beliefs or support for one another, nor should they be labeled under the umbrella definitions of militant Islam, Islamic Fundamentalism, or (gag) "Islamo-fascist". However, in reference to the Islamic militants related to Wahabbism, we can generally define them as a modern terrorist network. How these militants were elevated from feuding tribes to a highly sophisticated international organization of terror cells is no mystery, but to equate all Muslims with this specific brand of extremism is both grossly inaccurate and a folly.
It seems to me that military conflict and violence is always a double-edged sword that will inevitably strike back at those who choose to wield such power. As a very wise and humble man once said "An for an eye makes the whole world blind". He also said, "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." -Mahatma Gandi
NickFaust said:
[COMMENTS REDACTED FOR SIMPLICITY]
Funny, my comment was not about militant Islam, which has arisen in large part from the imperial imposition of western modernization on a non-Christian agrarian culture, but about Muslims in general, who far outnumber Islamic militants.
Let us also not forget that Western powers (Britain & U.S.) helped give rise to the modern militant Islamic movement by supporting totalitarian monarchies and regimes throughout the Mid-East to South Asian region. The spread of Wahabbism, arguably one of the strictest, violent interpretations of Islam, is largely due to it's greatest and wealthiest benefactor, Saudi Arabia (our "greatest" ally in the region). After their success in defeating the Ottoman Empire with the support of British allies, they were able to re-establish control in the religious heart of the Muslim world. Since then it has spread well beyond the Saudi kingdom and has been adopted by several Sunni extremist groups.
During the "Cold War", the US, Saudi, Chinese and other governments wanted to curb the expansion of Soviet power within the region. They found their answer in the mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan who'd resisted the Soviet backed government within Afghanistan. These mujahideen consisted of local Afghanis and an international group of Muslims (many Arabic) pursing the call for jihad against the invading Russians. The mujahideen were provided military material, intelligence, training and other monetary support by the CIA until the end of the conflict. We of course know the call for jihad didn't end with the conflict in Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden's Al Quieda network refocused the jihad against the very Western powers who had trained and supplied them. This distinct threat has now become muddled in the tempest of conflicts that have since engulfed the region after the second invasion of Afghanistan by western powers...
Not all Muslims who are engaged in military struggle share the same beliefs or support for one another, nor should they be labeled under the umbrella definitions of militant Islam, Islamic Fundamentalism, or (gag) "Islamo-fascist". However, in reference to the Islamic militants related to Wahabbism, we can generally define them as a modern terrorist network. How these militants were elevated from feuding tribes to a highly sophisticated international organization of terror cells is no mystery, but to equate all Muslims with this specific brand of extremism is both grossly inaccurate and a folly.
It seems to me that military conflict and violence is always a double-edged sword that will inevitably strike back at those who choose to wield such power. As a very wise and humble man once said "An for an eye makes the whole world blind". He also said, "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." -Mahatma Gandi
Agreed.
Most militancy that exists today can draw trace its roots to Sayed Qtub who formed his anti-modernist perspective in Nassar's prison camps. A good, short read for those who want to understand all of this better is Karen Armstrong's "History of Islam." It skips over a lot, and is strongly Western in perspective, but it is a fair treatment and, as I said, short and readable.
The history of Islam makes clear two things: 1) it is not a violent religion - life in the 7th century was violent, period, but Mohammad's revelations were quite remarkable in their anticipation of many modern social movements. 2) Islamic fundamentalism is an abandonment and a perversion of much of what the Quran says. Like all fundamentalism, it uses religion as a base for an anti-modernist ideology, but its connection to that religion becomes more and more tenuous as its adherents feel more and more pressure from modern society.
NickFaust said:
Well, no, Although I do not disagree with your major points, the militancy that DrStinkypants is referring to - the "Islamicist" or "Islamofacist" variety - rises from fundamentalism, which is generally a direct response to modernism.
Ach. Apologies then; I rushed into what I thought would be an interesting topic--unfortunately it wasn't the one being discussed.
Also, Nick: the book you were referring to... I'm assuming it's Islam: A Short History?
NickFaust said:
Well, no, Although I do not disagree with your major points, the militancy that DrStinkypants is referring to - the "Islamicist" or "Islamofacist" variety - rises from fundamentalism, which is generally a direct response to modernism.
Ach. Apologies then; I rushed into what I thought would be an interesting topic--unfortunately it wasn't the one being discussed.
Also, Nick: the book you were referring to... I'm assuming it's Islam: A Short History?
Right. Yeah, botched the title, sorry. And thanks.
NickFaust said:
Well, no, Although I do not disagree with your major points, the militancy that DrStinkypants is referring to - the "Islamicist" or "Islamofacist" variety - rises from fundamentalism, which is generally a direct response to modernism.
Ach. Apologies then; I rushed into what I thought would be an interesting topic--unfortunately it wasn't the one being discussed.
Also, Nick: the book you were referring to... I'm assuming it's Islam: A Short History?
NickFaust said:
Well, no, Although I do not disagree with your major points, the militancy that DrStinkypants is referring to - the "Islamicist" or "Islamofacist" variety - rises from fundamentalism, which is generally a direct response to modernism.
Ach. Apologies then; I rushed into what I thought would be an interesting topic--unfortunately it wasn't the one being discussed.
Also, Nick: the book you were referring to... I'm assuming it's Islam: A Short History?
FellOnEarth
Temecula, CA
April 2006
MAR 29, 2007 02:28 AM