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legionnaire

legionnaire

United Kingdom
November 2003

NOV 30, 2006 05:38 PM

Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has raised his own profile within the US by being the first Iranian president to visit the country since the 1979 revolution, as well as his outspoken defiance of Bush's nuclear ultimatums, and a near constant needling of Bush and US foreign policy. Now he's decided to take a page from Bush's own repertoire by writing an open letter to the citizens of the US.



Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, told the American people on Wednesday that he was certain they detested President Bush's policies _ his support for Israel, war in Iraq and curtailed civil liberties _ and he offered to work with them to reverse those policies.

[...]

"What have the Zionists done for the American people that the U.S. administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors?" Mr. Ahmadinejad wrote. "Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?"

[...]

"Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning."



The president made no reference to the level of poverty, political freedom or judicial independence in his own country.



After referring to Abu Ghraib in Iraq and the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, he wrote: "I have no doubt that the American people do not approve of this behavior and indeed deplore it."



The full text of the letter can be read here.



Bush should take home one lesson from this exercise in diplomacy: while it's fine to criticize one's own country, it's annoying as hell to hear some know-it-all from another offer the same criticisms, particularly when his own record isn't exactly spotless. People in Iran aren't stupid, they feel exactly the same way when Bush offers these "heartfelt pleas" to them to rise up against their own government and boot out Ahmadinejad and the clerics. In fact Iran has an active political movement against its theocracy, one that is widely supported by the populace (and despite Mohammed Khatami's perceived ineffectiveness he did try to initiate pro-Western reforms in Iraq during his tenure.)



But condescending to the Iranian people through cheap publicity stunts like "open letters" will just piss them off and likely stoke support in the exact opposite direction. Notice that spontaneous pro-Ahmadinejad rallies haven't sprung up around the US in response to his letter.



The best way to support dissent in Iran is to lead by example and offer help to dissidents whenever they ask for it. No one wants opinions from foreign despots shoved down their throats though.

Feride

Feride

Tucson, AZ
March 2006

NOV 30, 2006 09:29 PM

I read his letter...he actually warns the Democrats briefly, rather entertaining. He talks to us like a parent scolding someone else's children.
Sigh.

I read a bit in Arabic (it's in Persian, Arabic, and English), then the entire thing in English.

He refers to us as Noble Americans. Hehe.

DieWhiteGirls

DieWhiteGirls

Madison, WI
July 2005

NOV 30, 2006 09:53 PM

He's certainly one fuck of a master manipulator. Bypass the big guy and appeal to the peons. Regardless, he makes some good points.

_Elichrusos

_Elichrusos

Australia
November 2004

NOV 30, 2006 09:56 PM

You are, quite clearly, a genius. ♥

geo35

geo35

Minneapolis, MN
January 2003

NOV 30, 2006 10:31 PM

He's an interesting character, but who knows how much we can trust him? And Bush has got him beaten on one count: brevity.

emperorreagan

emperorreagan

Baltimore, MD
January 2004

NOV 30, 2006 11:18 PM

We can't trust him, any more than we can trust any other politician in the world. And he's a good politician - listen to him speak sometime. My friend who speaks Persian says he comes across even better as compared to the English translation.

Doesn't mean we should refuse diplomatic relations and open dialog. Refusing diplomatic relations and imposing sanctions does absolutely nothing, except harm the common man.

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

Knoxville, TN
OLD SKOOL

DEC 01, 2006 04:52 AM

What's great is how any good points which he might happen to make will be demonized by accociation with the guy who made them.

MetaTag

MetaTag

United Kingdom
September 2002

DEC 01, 2006 05:35 AM

We can learn a lot about Civil Liberties from Iran. NOT.

R0nin

R0nin

Chicago, IL
October 2005

DEC 01, 2006 06:40 AM

emperorreagan said:
Doesn't mean we should refuse diplomatic relations and open dialog. Refusing diplomatic relations and imposing sanctions does absolutely nothing, except harm the common man.



I'd just like to ad that when we live in a country where our "leaders" can't see this, it's time for new leadership!

Ahmadinejad made some good points, which will unfortunately be ignored simply because of who he is....

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

DEC 01, 2006 08:24 AM

GeorgeJefferson said:
What's great is how any good points which he might happen to make will be demonized by accociation with the guy who made them.


I very much doubt he actually belives much of what he is saying, except for the antisemtic bullshit, and is instead saying it because he thinks it is what we want to hear.

UpTight

UpTight

I'm lost
December 2003

DEC 01, 2006 10:23 AM

Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning.



This - from the president of a regime that punishes homosexuality with death and forces women to dress like Batman.

Does anyone know if it's mandatory to give a warning before issuing a fatwa?

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

DEC 01, 2006 10:43 AM

uptight said:

Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning.



This - from the president of a regime that punishes homosexuality with death and forces women to dress like Batman.

Does anyone know if it's mandatory to give a warning before issuing a fatwa?



His own country's record notwithstanding, it is an accurate observation.

Your own contributions to this board make clear that truth can fall from a lying mouth.

c4ff31n3

c4ff31n3

I'm lost
November 2004

DEC 01, 2006 12:45 PM

uptight said:

Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning.



This - from the president of a regime that punishes homosexuality with death and forces women to dress like Batman.

Does anyone know if it's mandatory to give a warning before issuing a fatwa?



Dang, You forgot to mention flogging, stoning, beheading, cutting off hands, secret execution of those in opposition to his regime, exclusion of recognition of opposition political parties, and general sociopolitical intolerance. I do like a good random fatwa, though. Regardless of his apparent charisma, I find it interesting that anyone would align themselves with him, even against a President they abhor. Life is odd.

By the by, your first testimonial is the best thing I've read in a long time...

UpTight

UpTight

I'm lost
December 2003

DEC 01, 2006 12:52 PM

NickFaust said:

uptight said:

Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning.



This - from the president of a regime that punishes homosexuality with death and forces women to dress like Batman.

Does anyone know if it's mandatory to give a warning before issuing a fatwa?



His own country's record notwithstanding, it is an accurate observation.



perhaps he meant it as a compliment

BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

Knoxville, TN
OLD SKOOL

DEC 01, 2006 12:56 PM

GeorgeJefferson said:
What's great is how any good points which he might happen to make will be demonized by accociation with the guy who made them.



uptight said:

Civil liberties are increasingly being curtailed. Even the privacy of the individuals is fast losing its meaning.



This - from the president of a regime that punishes homosexuality with death and forces women to dress like Batman.

Does anyone know if it's mandatory to give a warning before issuing a fatwa?

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2006 03:58 PM

"Fatwa" sounds Muslim and bad.

For myself, I'm pretty pissed at Ahmedinejad. Way to undercut the opposition, jerk-ass.

YUSUF

YUSUF

Detroit, MI
November 2006

DEC 01, 2006 05:35 PM

Zarth said:
"Fatwa" sounds Muslim and bad.

For myself, I'm pretty pissed at Ahmedinejad. Way to undercut the opposition, jerk-ass.



funny smile

YUSUF

YUSUF

Detroit, MI
November 2006

DEC 01, 2006 05:41 PM

oyaji said:

Ahmadinejad is not qualified to issue fatvas. He does not have the authority to issue fatvas. He has never issued a fatva. What do fatvas have to do with anything in this thread?



good point.
a lot of people have misconsceptions like that - they think Bin Ladin makes Fatwas and he is not qualified. He'd not even a cleric. Neither is Ahmadinejad.

Nice Avatar...

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2006 05:50 PM

arab_Misfit said:
good point.
a lot of people have misconsceptions like that - they think Bin Ladin makes Fatwas and he is not qualified. He'd not even a cleric. Neither is Ahmadinejad.



Exactly. Most Westerners don't even know what a fatwa is. They just heard about Rushdie and they assume it's some kind of death sentence, which is the sense in which uptight was using it (though, to be fair, it was the Iranian regime that issued that one as I recall, though obviously not the secular arm).

YUSUF

YUSUF

Detroit, MI
November 2006

DEC 01, 2006 06:05 PM

Well, I'm new here, so I don't know all your opinions,
...I'm just glad you are informed Zarth! i'm sure there
are many others. Sh*t, even i don't know half the things
I should know. surreal

YUSUF

YUSUF

Detroit, MI
November 2006

DEC 01, 2006 06:07 PM

oyaji said:
Thanks.

I believe that OBL has indeed issued "fatwas," though, notwithstanding that he is in no way qualified in any orthodox sense to issue fatwas. As far as I know, Ahmadinejad has not issued any "fatvas." If he did issue "fatvas" he would have serious political and possibly legal problems in Iran.



i think it was mullah Omar that issues the edicts and bin Ladin then spews them.

Zarth

Zarth

Seattle, WA
December 2004

DEC 01, 2006 07:03 PM

arab_Misfit said:
i think it was mullah Omar that issues the edicts and bin Ladin then spews them.



Bin Laden has actually issued fatawa, even though he's not qualified. He and Zawahiri cosigned the judgment calling for Jihad Against Zionists and Crusaders back in '98. I think he did a couple others, as well.

1stXer

1stXer

Minden, LA
April 2004

DEC 01, 2006 07:58 PM

arab_Misfit said: Sh*t, even i don't know half the things
I should know. surreal



Keep it simple, one thing at a time.

YUSUF

YUSUF

Detroit, MI
November 2006

DEC 02, 2006 09:58 AM

1stXer said:

Keep it simple, one thing at a time.



That's about all we can do! I find it difficult being in the middle of this global mess, but I found that objectivity helps. The only way to be objective is to know facts.

legionnaire

legionnaire

United Kingdom
November 2003

DEC 02, 2006 10:46 PM

YUSUF said:
The only way to be objective is to know facts.



You're already ahead of about 90% of the people who post here then.