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Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

NOV 22, 2006 10:08 AM

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2006/11/22/metshoot1122b.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13

By Jeffry Scott, S.A. Reid
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 11/22/06

A 92-year-old woman was killed after she shot three Atlanta narcotics officers Tuesday night when they broke down the front door of her home trying to serve a search warrant, police said.

One officer was hit in the arm, one was struck in the shoulder and one was shot in the thigh. All were rushed to Grady Memorial Hospital, where they were in stable condition late Tuesday night. Police did not release their names.

Atlanta assistant police Chief Alan Dreher, in a news conference outside the hospital emergency room, declined to confirm the identity of the woman, but said the warrant was served at the correct address.

Sarah C. Dozier, also speaking at the hospital, identified the dead woman as her aunt, Kathryn Johnston.

Dozier said her aunt worried about crime in the neighborhood where she had lived for about 17 years, and might have thought the police were intruders.

"Every window in her home and every door on her home has burglar bars," said Dozier. "I talked to her the other day about a 72-year-old who was raped. I know she was just scared."

Dozier said her aunt was healthy and vigorous and lived alone. She said she talked to her aunt every day and was looking forward to her annual Thanksgiving dinner at her aunt's home.

Dreher, the assistant police chief, said that as far as he knew the narcotics officers did "everything by the book. They had a search warrant, they announced themselves and knocked first." He said he did not know what name was on the warrant. The woman was the only person in the home at the time, he said.

Dreher said the incident is still under investigation and "will be for days."

He declined to say how many shots were fired and what kind of gun the woman had. Dozier said her aunt owned a pistol and she had a permit. "I don't know what kind and it was rusty, but apparently it was working well," she said.

A neighbor, Yolanda Jackson, 42, said she was sitting on the front porch of her home on Joseph E. Lowery Boulevard a block away when undercover narcotics officers, who were not in street uniforms, showed up around 7 p.m. to serve the warrant at Johnston's home, at 933 Neal St.

"I heard 'pow, pow, pow, pow,' " said Jackson. "A whole lot of gunfire, really fast." She estimated the number of shots at between 16 and 24. She said within five minutes, "about 20" police cars swarmed into the area.

A few minutes later ambulances showed up and a helicopter was hovering over the neighborhood, which is an intown mix of dilapidated and well-kept homes, houses being refurbished and a few new infill houses.

By 8:15 p.m. police had Neal Street blocked off from the corner of Joseph Lowery as investigators went in and out of the home bringing out bags of evidence, according to neighbors, and TV news crews set up street shots.

The shooting came on the same day that the district attorney in neighboring DeKalb County announced she would ask for a grand jury to review Police Department investigations of 12 deadly police shootings there this year. Some of Johnston's neighbors made the connection.

"The same thing is happening here as is going on in DeKalb County," said neighbor Tony Torrance. "Police are shooting people. They aren't following procedure."

Atlanta police declined to say what they were searching for when they went to Johnston's home. Dozier said she plans to hire a lawyer to find out what really happened.

"As far as I'm concerned, they shot her down like a dog."

ON AJC.COM

> For updates on this story throughout the day go to ajc.com.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

NOV 22, 2006 10:13 AM

You know, I don't really know what happened here or whether these officers share part of the blame and how much of it they should be assigned, but it IS kind of significant that she started shooting first.

Colinism

Colinism

Atlanta, GA
July 2005

NOV 22, 2006 10:17 AM

If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too. They arrived after dark in plain clothes, knocked, said they were the police, then kicked open the door. Even if they did everything right and she was guilty, clearly the procedure used needs to be addressed.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

NOV 22, 2006 10:19 AM

Colinism said:
If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too.



No. I would ask to see the warrant.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

NOV 22, 2006 11:01 AM

Subrosa said:

Colinism said:
If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too.



No. I would ask to see the warrant.



Yes, well she would have had to read it with her face in the carpet and her arms in plastic handcuffs.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am having trouble seeing a 72 year old grandmother as the center of a drug ring. But its been a while since I moved out of the city. I am guessing the had the wrong address. In which case this person would have had no reason to assign any validity at all to the idea that the warrent - or the cops - were for real, especially since they were kicking down the door.

Maybe you have the kind of icy nerves it would take to face down three cops bursting through your door and screaming for you to get on the floor so that you could demand to see their warrent. I think that your assumption that this person would have the presence of mind to do that is unwarrented (if you will pardon the pun)

My feeling: the blame is assigned to the "no knock warrent" rulings that have severely cut down on the time between the knock and the breaking down of the door.

Shal

Shal

Los Angeles, CA
October 2002

NOV 22, 2006 11:05 AM

NickFaust said:
a 72 year old grandmother



92. Perhaps she couldn't hear the men announce themselves when they knocked and identified themselves as police officers?

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

NOV 22, 2006 11:06 AM

NickFaust said:

Subrosa said:

Colinism said:
If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too.



No. I would ask to see the warrant.



Yes, well she would have had to read it with her face in the carpet and her arms in plastic handcuffs.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am having trouble seeing a 72 year old grandmother as the center of a drug ring. But its been a while since I moved out of the city. I am guessing the had the wrong address. In which case this person would have had no reason to assign any validity at all to the idea that the warrent - or the cops - were for real, especially since they were kicking down the door.

Maybe you have the kind of icy nerves it would take to face down three cops bursting through your door and screaming for you to get on the floor so that you could demand to see their warrent. I think that your assumption that this person would have the presence of mind to do that is unwarrented (if you will pardon the pun)

My feeling: the blame is assigned to the "no knock warrent" rulings that have severely cut down on the time between the knock and the breaking down of the door.




zoom image

PatrickY

PatrickY

Vancouver, WA
December 2003

NOV 22, 2006 11:08 AM

Subrosa said:

zoom image




The best part of that is the use of loose, instead of lose, on the center square.

"Loose one turn". Yes man, cut loose with that turn!

d20

d20

San Francisco, CA
September 2003

NOV 22, 2006 11:08 AM

Shalome said:

NickFaust said:
a 72 year old grandmother



92. Perhaps she couldn't hear the men announce themselves when they knocked and identified themselves as police officers?



if that were the case, you'd really have to wonder why she was allowed to keep a handgun around.

Rude_Ruca

Rude_Ruca

I'm lost
December 2004

NOV 22, 2006 11:54 AM

LeReve said:

d20 said:

Shalome said:

NickFaust said:
a 72 year old grandmother



92. Perhaps she couldn't hear the men announce themselves when they knocked and identified themselves as police officers?



if that were the case, you'd really have to wonder why she was allowed to keep a handgun around.



Because she lives in a bad neighborhood and refused to move from her home. It was her choice. It should also be noted that the officers involved were in plainclothes. There have also been problems with police impersonations in the area.




I have to agree with you here (and Mr. NickFaust)....None of us are 92, as of yet, and I think I can assume that fairly. Therefore, none of us know exactly how we would have reacted considering the circumstances- ALL of them.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

NOV 22, 2006 12:56 PM

Subrosa said:

NickFaust said:

Subrosa said:

Colinism said:
If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too.



No. I would ask to see the warrant.



Yes, well she would have had to read it with her face in the carpet and her arms in plastic handcuffs.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am having trouble seeing a 72 year old grandmother as the center of a drug ring. But its been a while since I moved out of the city. I am guessing the had the wrong address. In which case this person would have had no reason to assign any validity at all to the idea that the warrent - or the cops - were for real, especially since they were kicking down the door.

Maybe you have the kind of icy nerves it would take to face down three cops bursting through your door and screaming for you to get on the floor so that you could demand to see their warrent. I think that your assumption that this person would have the presence of mind to do that is unwarrented (if you will pardon the pun)

My feeling: the blame is assigned to the "no knock warrent" rulings that have severely cut down on the time between the knock and the breaking down of the door.




zoom image



Ah.

Well, it's good to see you make it out to the movies every decade or so.

'Course, having a point might be entertaining too.

scorp17yh

scorp17yh

Brookings, OR
November 2004

NOV 22, 2006 01:27 PM

Since 9/11 it seems more and more common that the POLICE are not here to Serve&Protect but to harrass and intimidate. 2 officers in Eugene, OR were convicted of rape. 2 officers in Multnomaugh Co., Or were convicted of intimidaton and other charges for forcing women to show their breasts and pucbic areas after falsely claiming they were looking for tattoos. Portland, Oregons Chief of Police was forced to resign because of sexual harrasment and explicit emails sent on PD computers. The Sheriff in Multnomah Co. ,OR was at the center of corruption investigations conducted by his own District Attorney. Police killings of mentally ill citizens in OR have become common place. Police intimidation of bicycle riders in Portland and Eugene, OR are at all time highs. It just goes on and on ,not to mention the rampant Police abuse of the overtime and disability programs throughout Oregon.

quagmirething

quagmirething

I'm lost
June 2005

NOV 22, 2006 01:41 PM

If she'd had a semi-automatic shotgun she might be alive today.

When buying your grandmother's Christmas present, keep in mind that fire power counts. wink

SockPuppet

SockPuppet

I'm lost
July 2006

NOV 22, 2006 02:37 PM

Claymore mine. That discourages all sorts of intruders.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

NOV 22, 2006 02:44 PM

This is a tradgedy for all involved, of course. Perhaps serving warrants in a bad neighborhood at night and in plain clothes is not such a good idea?

Also, is it wrong to be pretty impressed that the 92 year old woman hit all 3 cops?

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

NOV 22, 2006 02:51 PM

NickFaust said:

Subrosa said:

NickFaust said:

Subrosa said:

Colinism said:
If three men kicked down your door in a crime ridden neighborhood, you would shoot first too.



No. I would ask to see the warrant.



Yes, well she would have had to read it with her face in the carpet and her arms in plastic handcuffs.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am having trouble seeing a 72 year old grandmother as the center of a drug ring. But its been a while since I moved out of the city. I am guessing the had the wrong address. In which case this person would have had no reason to assign any validity at all to the idea that the warrent - or the cops - were for real, especially since they were kicking down the door.

Maybe you have the kind of icy nerves it would take to face down three cops bursting through your door and screaming for you to get on the floor so that you could demand to see their warrent. I think that your assumption that this person would have the presence of mind to do that is unwarrented (if you will pardon the pun)

My feeling: the blame is assigned to the "no knock warrent" rulings that have severely cut down on the time between the knock and the breaking down of the door.




zoom image



Ah.

Well, it's good to see you make it out to the movies every decade or so.

'Course, having a point might be entertaining too.


My point was that you are jumping to conclusions.

hadees

hadees

Austin, TX
December 2003

NOV 22, 2006 02:53 PM

Stiles said:
This is a tradgedy for all involved, of course. Perhaps serving warrants in a bad neighborhood at night and in plain clothes is not such a good idea?


Well in the cops defence bad neighborhood generally have look outs and alert people in the area when the police are around.

Also, is it wrong to be pretty impressed that the 92 year old woman hit all 3 cops?


I'm kind of impressed the recoil didn't knock her over.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

NOV 22, 2006 02:55 PM

Subrosa said:
My point was that you are jumping to conclusions.



For once, Captain Obvious was truly needed.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

NOV 22, 2006 03:10 PM

LeReve said:
It should also be noted that the officers had a no-knock warrant meaning that they came up to the home, shouted "Police!" and kicked down the door.



From the BBC:



Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door.



Horrible tragedy, but (from what I am reading) the police went there with the information they were given, knocked, announced, broke down the door, were fired upon, and fired back. It does not appear (to me) that the cops that went there went looking to gun down an old lady because it seemed like a fun way to spend their evening. It was a bad, horrible, mistake on both sides.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

NOV 22, 2006 03:20 PM

LeReve said:

DancehallDreamer said:

LeReve said:
It should also be noted that the officers had a no-knock warrant meaning that they came up to the home, shouted "Police!" and kicked down the door.



From the BBC:



Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door.



Horrible tragedy, but (from what I am reading) the police went there with the information they were given, knocked, announced, broke down the door, were fired upon, and fired back. It does not appear (to me) that the cops that went there went looking to gun down an old lady because it seemed like a fun way to spend their evening. It was a bad, horrible, mistake on both sides.



Well I guess I could have said it better. What it means is they have the right to enter the home if the door isn't answered "quickly" or "within a reasonable amount of time."

Our local news is not reporting that they knocked at all, and the local police have made no statement as such from what I've seen, but chances are that they did - just didn't wait that long.



Police cannot wait 'that long' when serving a warrant. Waiting allows time for the people inside to flush drugs, arm themselves (which a 92 year old woman was able to do) etc. etc.

Is there anything anywhere stating what the warrant was for in the first place?

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

NOV 22, 2006 03:26 PM

From what my client officers in Narcotics have told me in the past, they often knock, announce and then bash the door in very quickly, particularly in narcotics cases where they are concerned perps will flush evidence down the toilet to avoid felony distribution/trafficking charges.

They also tend to go in fast to give people less time to get guns ready.

Old folks tend to be slow and hard of hearing, so it's very likely the woman couldn't make it to the door fast enough and may well have not heard the officers I.D. themselves at the door. 92 year olds generally can't see very well either, particularly at night - so she very well might have believed the officers were robbers violently breaking into her house.

Again, the decision to go in at night, in plainclothes, and in this manner was particularly unfortunate.

Stiles

Stiles

Oakland, CA
November 2002

NOV 22, 2006 03:30 PM

The AP reports: (bolding mine)



Updated: 05:32 PM EST

92-Year-Old Woman Dies in Shootout With Police

ATLANTA (Nov. 22) - Many people on the rundown northwest Atlanta street where Kathryn Johnston lived fortify their windows with metal bars and arm themselves for protection. Johnston, 92, was no exception. She was waiting with her gun on Tuesday night when a group of plainclothes officers with a warrant knocked down her door in a search for drugs, police said. She opened fire, wounding three officers, before being shot to death, police said.

Authorities got the search warrant after buying drugs Tuesday from a man in Kathryn Johnston's home, Assistant Atlanta Police Chief Alan Dreher said Wednesday.

Assistant Police Chief Alan Dreher called the killing "tragic and unfortunate" but said the officers were justified in returning fire.

"You don't know who's in the house until you open that door," Dreher said Wednesday. "And once they forced open the door, they were immediately fired upon."

The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist and spokesman for Johnston's family, said he could understand why the elderly woman would arm herself.

"She was afraid," Hutchins said. "This is a horrifying situation in a neighborhood where crime happens often. This incident is a result of a mix-up."

The officers had gone to the old woman's house with a search warrant after buying drugs from a man there, police said. Dreher would not say how the dealer knew Johnston.

District Attorney Paul Howard said that his office is looking into the shooting but that a preliminary review indicates the officers had a right to search the home.

Crime and drugs are a part of the landscape in the rough neighborhood where Johnston lived, and her neighbors said they do what it takes to protect themselves.

"It's the roughest neighborhood in Georgia," said 56-year-old Allen Pernel, who lives a few blocks from Johnston's home. "If she thought somebody was coming into her house, she did what any of us would have done."


Al Harley, a 50-year-old homeless man who hangs out in front of a neighborhood convenience store, said residents follow a sort of credo: "Don't let anyone disrespect your door."

The police chief said the officers had identified themselves and then forced open the door of Johnson's house of 17 years. Johnston was alone in her house, police said.

Bullets struck Investigator Gary Smith, 38, in the leg and Investigator Cary Bond, 38, in the arm. Investigator Gregg Junnier, 40, was hit in the leg, the face and his bulletproof vest. They were taken to the hospital and are expected to recover.

Johnston had no children and her closest relative was a 75-year-old niece, neighbors said.

"She hardly came outside her home," said Tameka Walker, 28, who lives behind Johnston's house and used to visit her. "She's not a 92-year-old grouchy old woman you think she was. She's a very nice person."

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

NOV 22, 2006 03:36 PM

LeReve said:

DancehallDreamer said:

Police cannot wait 'that long' when serving a warrant. Waiting allows time for the people inside to flush drugs, arm themselves (which a 92 year old woman was able to do) etc. etc.

Is there anything anywhere stating what the warrant was for in the first place?



Sure they can wait that long. When they are serving a warrant for something such as failure to appear in court, etc. I get your point, but don't try to twist my words to make me look incompetent. Understanding that we are talking about a warrant for drug search of a home, then obviously they can't "wait that long."



Which is why I asked what the warrant was for in the first place, it could give a better idea as to why the officers acted as they apparently did. I wasn't attempting to make anyone look incompetent.

DhD_No_Pants

DhD_No_Pants

Katy, TX
May 2006

NOV 22, 2006 03:38 PM

LeReve said:

DancehallDreamer said:
Which is why I asked what the warrant was for in the first place, it could give a better idea as to why the officers acted as they apparently did. I wasn't attempting to make anyone look incompetent.



Yeah sorry, I went back and took that out. I was just read it wrong and overreacted frown



Happens to the best of us. wink

Akrasia

Akrasia

Ireland
August 2004

NOV 22, 2006 03:48 PM

does anyone else see a link between this thread and this one started by the same author?

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