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legionnaire

legionnaire

United Kingdom
November 2003

JUL 20, 2006 09:01 PM

At the end of the day today, the score was judicial acitivism 1, pointless laws 0. The ripples from the landmark Lawrence v. Texas decision on sodomy continue to make themselves felt throughout the country's halls of justice, as laws previously designed to give the government access to people's intimate livesdraw more and more fire, and a constitutional right to privacy has become an ever more important concept. Most recently on the chopping block is an idiotic 201 year old law banning cohabitation in North Carolina, challenged by the ACLU after a woman was fired from working in a police station because she was living with her boyfriend.



Deborah Hobbs, 41, says her boss, Sheriff Carson Smith of Pender County, near Wilmington, told her to get married, move out or find another job after he found out she and her boyfriend had been living together for three years. The couple did not want to get married, so Hobbs quit in 2004.



State Superior Court Judge Benjamin Alford issued the ruling late Wednesday, saying the law violated Hobbs' constitutional right to liberty. He cited a 2003 Supreme Court ruling that struck down a Texas sodomy law.



That ruling showed that "the government has no business regulating relationships between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own home," Jennifer Rudinger, executive director of the ACLU of North Carolina, said in a statement.



She added that "the idea that the government would criminalize people's choice to live together out of wedlock in this day and age defies logic and common sense."



In all fairness, these laws are predominantly relics of a much more puritanical age, a time when a lot more people believe that it was perfectly appropriate for the government to step and regulate people's personal lives, and are rarely enforced much any more. Fortunately we've come a long way since then, with some help from key cases like Griswold v. Connecticut that established the basis for law considering a right to privacy, and extended by Roe v. Wade. Both of these decisions came under fire, as accusations of judicial activism sought to show that they were desecrating the constitution by not adhering strictly to its letter, where there is not any specifically enumerated restriction on the government to intervene in people's private affairs (though it's also not so difficult to infer from other restrictions that are in there, and a mountain of case law that follows.)



At issue is whether the constitution can really be considered a "living document," that is something that changes with the times, or whether a "strict constructionist" interpretation that only includes what was originally written is the best way to proceed when trying to determine the legitimacy of a law. Common sense tells most people that cohabitation is not something that's going away any time soon, and while some may adhere to an older style of morality that belives cohabitation is a bad thing, it's not really their business - a more general "live and let live" approach to individual morality that has no effect on others has become the predominant force in society as it has grown more diverse. This particular decision was made in a state court so the precedent it has set will likely be more limited than those of the other cases mentioned, which were all decided in federal courts, but the decision can serve as beacon to others seeking to overturn equally outdated and foolish laws that the courts are willing. In order for the law to catch up with society, a little judicial activism breathing life into the constitution can be a good thing.

limpingbear03

limpingbear03

San Diego, CA
December 2005

JUL 20, 2006 10:11 PM

about fucking time......

jonasgrumby

jonasgrumby

Portland, OR
April 2004

JUL 21, 2006 01:53 AM

Fortunately we've come a long way since then, with some help from key cases like Griswold v. Connecticut that established the basis for law considering a right to privacy, and extended by Roe v. Wade. Both of these decisions came under fire, as accusations of judicial activism sought to show that they were desecrating the constitution by not adhering strictly to its letter, where there is not any specifically enumerated restriction on the government to intervene in people's private affairs (though it's also not so difficult to infer from other restrictions that are in there, and a mountain of case law that follows.)

At issue is whether the constitution can really be considered a "living document," that is something that changes with the times, or whether a "strict constructionist" interpretation that only includes what was originally written is the best way to proceed when trying to determine the legitimacy of a law.


Most strict constructionists would view the Constitution not as a power-restricting document, but a power-granting document -- that is, the federal government can only do what the Constitution specifically grants it the power to do, and nothing else. So, this new "activist" court decision would be more or less in line with strict constructionism, because there's no constitutional clause granting Congress the power to regulate people's sex lives. Since that particular power isn't granted to government in the Constitution, any law exercising that power should be struck down, according to the strict constructionist view.

The only real wrinkle from a strict constructionist perspective is that this decision nullifies a state law, not a federal law, and the Constitution was only applicable to federal law back in the day. But since the 14th Amendment is interpreted to grant people the same liberty from bad state laws as they have from bad federal laws, it could be considered kind of a modified strict constructionist approach. Some states' rights strict constructionists (I actually met one who wasn't racist, once) hate the 14th Amendment, but that's a fight they'll never win...

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUL 21, 2006 02:19 AM

jonasgrumby said:

Fortunately we've come a long way since then, with some help from key cases like Griswold v. Connecticut that established the basis for law considering a right to privacy, and extended by Roe v. Wade. Both of these decisions came under fire, as accusations of judicial activism sought to show that they were desecrating the constitution by not adhering strictly to its letter, where there is not any specifically enumerated restriction on the government to intervene in people's private affairs (though it's also not so difficult to infer from other restrictions that are in there, and a mountain of case law that follows.)

At issue is whether the constitution can really be considered a "living document," that is something that changes with the times, or whether a "strict constructionist" interpretation that only includes what was originally written is the best way to proceed when trying to determine the legitimacy of a law.


Most strict constructionists would view the Constitution not as a power-restricting document, but a power-granting document -- that is, the federal government can only do what the Constitution specifically grants it the power to do, and nothing else. So, this new "activist" court decision would be more or less in line with strict constructionism, because there's no constitutional clause granting Congress the power to regulate people's sex lives. Since that particular power isn't granted to government in the Constitution, any law exercising that power should be struck down, according to the strict constructionist view.

The only real wrinkle from a strict constructionist perspective is that this decision nullifies a state law, not a federal law, and the Constitution was only applicable to federal law back in the day. But since the 14th Amendment is interpreted to grant people the same liberty from bad state laws as they have from bad federal laws, it could be considered kind of a modified strict constructionist approach. Some states' rights strict constructionists (I actually met one who wasn't racist, once) hate the 14th Amendment, but that's a fight they'll never win...



No. A strict constructionist would vehemently disagree with this ruling because the 14th Amendment doesn't explicitly prohibit a state from passing laws to this effect. Remember that the incorporation doctrine is not something that is exactly a favorite thing of the strict constructionist. The 14th Amendment would do ONLY what it says it does and nothing more. This decision is based on a relatively modern and liberal interpretation of the due process clause (specifically the substantive due process clause, which doesn't even exist to strict constructionists).

This is a correct ruling from current Court precedent, but not anything that a constructionist would want anything to do with. Trust me.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUL 21, 2006 02:25 AM

Basically, the idea is that the Federal Constitution is a granting document, but state constitutions are limiting documents. Therefore, a strict constructionist would argue that as long as the state constitution does not prohibit this type of law from being enacted, it should be allowed.

jonasgrumby

jonasgrumby

Portland, OR
April 2004

JUL 21, 2006 02:53 AM

Subrosa said:
Basically, the idea is that the Federal Constitution is a granting document, but state constitutions are limiting documents. Therefore, a strict constructionist would argue that as long as the state constitution does not prohibit this type of law from being enacted, it should be allowed.


There are strict constructionists who are fans of the incorporation doctrine -- like Roger Pilon and Randy Barnett. That's why I awkwardly dubbed it "kind of a modified strict constructionist approach". They may not be strict constructionists in a strict sense, but they have a lot in common -- interpreting the meaning of the Constitution in almost exactly the same ways, with the caveat that they think state power should be limited in the same way that the Constitution limits federal power.

NickFaust

NickFaust

USA
April 2004

JUL 21, 2006 03:52 AM

Justice Brandeis once stated that the 4th Amendment was the embodiement of the idea that the people had a "right to be left alone" by their government.

This mixing of religious morality and law really needs to be purged from our laws.

abracadabra

abracadabra

Seattle, WA
April 2004

JUL 21, 2006 10:07 AM

this is the first "good news" story i have ever seen on the newswire ..maybe this is the start of a new trend of sane political decisions?..hmmmmm

jonzes

jonzes

Madison, WI
July 2003

JUL 21, 2006 10:27 AM

Well, if there were sane political descisions going around this dumb-assed law would have been revoked by the senate of NC long ago but apparently the representatives there don't have the balls to offend the batshit religious right by suggesting that cohabitation should be 'legalized'. Same goes for the BS sodamy laws many states had under which such vile crimes as masterbation or getting a blow job were kept on the books because legislatures knew they would only be used on gays.

What we have is a few sane judges, which is what an 'activist judiciary' is for, to keep the mob for doing stupid shiet.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUL 21, 2006 11:29 AM

jonasgrumby said:

Subrosa said:
Basically, the idea is that the Federal Constitution is a granting document, but state constitutions are limiting documents. Therefore, a strict constructionist would argue that as long as the state constitution does not prohibit this type of law from being enacted, it should be allowed.


There are strict constructionists who are fans of the incorporation doctrine -- like Roger Pilon and Randy Barnett. That's why I awkwardly dubbed it "kind of a modified strict constructionist approach". They may not be strict constructionists in a strict sense, but they have a lot in common -- interpreting the meaning of the Constitution in almost exactly the same ways, with the caveat that they think state power should be limited in the same way that the Constitution limits federal power.



Yeah, I'm not familiar with either of those two folks and nor would I consider myself necessarily an expert on the strict constructionist movement. That said, the above sounds less like the strict constructionist model and more like an old-school federalist model. Again, I would argue that a strict constructionist would find this decision illegitimate because it is based on Lawrence, which is in itself illegitimate. Moreover, it's based on a relatively expansive view of the Lawrence decision. The holding of Lawrence was simply that sodomy laws offended the fundamental right to privacy and you can see how it might be a stretch to get from that holding to this one (It's a stretch that I believe is logical and warranted, mind you, I'm just arguing the other side).

baudot

baudot

Los Angeles, CA
February 2004

JUL 21, 2006 11:34 AM

In another example of activist judges disregarding the letter of the law, a missouri murderer was told to get a new defense strategy when his lawyer attempted to get him off the hook using an old state law that declared killing mormons to not be murder.

Cassiel

Cassiel

Aurora, CO
September 2004

JUL 21, 2006 02:43 PM

sometimes, i think the best chance we have at progress is when the Cold War-mentality old guard lawmakers and elected officials leave office and the news ones, who came of age after the fall of the Berlin Wall (our generation), are put into office...so I guess the beginning of the new guard will be in about 20 years...granted, there will still be hXc right-wing psychopaths still around, but I think there will actually be some good progress made when that time comes around

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUL 21, 2006 02:51 PM

baudot said:
In another example of activist judges disregarding the letter of the law, a missouri murderer was told to get a new defense strategy when his lawyer attempted to get him off the hook using an old state law that declared killing mormons to not be murder.



Now THAT is zealous representation, my friend. Bravo!

wink

ASSH0LE

ASSH0LE

Las Vegas, NV
June 2003

JUL 21, 2006 03:43 PM

jonzes said:
masterbation



I won't challenge your mastery of the subject, but it's "masturbation.

ASSH0LE

ASSH0LE

Las Vegas, NV
June 2003

JUL 21, 2006 03:49 PM

Subrosa said:

baudot said:
In another example of activist judges disregarding the letter of the law, a missouri murderer was told to get a new defense strategy when his lawyer attempted to get him off the hook using an old state law that declared killing mormons to not be murder.



Now THAT is zealous representation, my friend. Bravo!

wink



Yeah, they got themselves chased most of the way across America before finally settling in Utah. The law was likely a quickie law done as political cover for when local militias were called in to attack the Mormons.

This is an ugly bit of American history that doesn't get much coverage in most classrooms outside of Utah and maybe Arizona, Idaho and Wyoming. They WOULD teach this in Nevada high schools, but our kids don't stick around school that long. There's great jobs as valets if you know the right dude.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

JUL 21, 2006 04:12 PM

ASSH0LE said:

Subrosa said:

baudot said:
In another example of activist judges disregarding the letter of the law, a missouri murderer was told to get a new defense strategy when his lawyer attempted to get him off the hook using an old state law that declared killing mormons to not be murder.



Now THAT is zealous representation, my friend. Bravo!

wink



Yeah, they got themselves chased most of the way across America before finally settling in Utah. The law was likely a quickie law done as political cover for when local militias were called in to attack the Mormons.

This is an ugly bit of American history that doesn't get much coverage in most classrooms outside of Utah and maybe Arizona, Idaho and Wyoming. They WOULD teach this in Nevada high schools, but our kids don't stick around school that long. There's great jobs as valets if you know the right dude.


Of course. And advancing a frivolous legal argument such as that is often grounds for sanctions. Which is why it's so awesome that the lawyer tried it. Dumb as hell, but awesome all the same.

xrinti

xrinti

Madison, WI
April 2006

JUL 21, 2006 05:56 PM

Subrosa said:
No. A strict constructionist would vehemently disagree with this ruling because the 14th Amendment doesn't explicitly prohibit a state from passing laws to this effect.



No. A modern strict constructionist would vehemently disagree with this ruling because it doesn't interpret the constitution in the way that they want it interpreted. Or perhaps because Rush told them that the ruling was another example of an "activist judge gone wild". (Obligatory Girls Gone Wild joke ignored.)