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7/24/06

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Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

JUL 18, 2006 02:56 PM

misguided said:
If you combine this initiative with conditional suffrage then I'm in. That is to say, the first 10 things on the ballot are a simple current events quiz, half provided by one party and half by the other, and if the voter doesn't get at least 8 correct his or her vote is not counted. it just comes out the other end without being enumerated and with a big X on it for manual recounts. heh.
after all, why should anyone who doesn't have the knowledge or mental capacity to understand the choice they're making have a say in it?



Because people who can afford to live in an affluent school district shouldn't have more of a say than the impoverished?

BGage

BGage

Los Angeles, CA
March 2004

JUL 18, 2006 09:52 PM

Clov said:

misguided said:
If you combine this initiative with conditional suffrage then I'm in. That is to say, the first 10 things on the ballot are a simple current events quiz, half provided by one party and half by the other, and if the voter doesn't get at least 8 correct his or her vote is not counted. it just comes out the other end without being enumerated and with a big X on it for manual recounts. heh.
after all, why should anyone who doesn't have the knowledge or mental capacity to understand the choice they're making have a say in it?



Because people who can afford to live in an affluent school district shouldn't have more of a say than the impoverished?


Bullshit. Newspapers are cheap and television is free. People who can't be bothered to think shouldn't be in a position to inflict red-state horror on the rest of us. I grew up not exactly poor, but lower middle-class, and I was better read and better-informed than my affluent peers. Besides which, few of us were able to vote before we finished high-school, so I don't know how school attendance is even relevant. I love this idea.

Lior

Lior

Australia
August 2005

JUL 18, 2006 10:03 PM

whitepuma said:

BGage said:

Chaolin said:
Why not just make it mandatory to vote like it is here in Australia?



Mandatory? ugh, what a perversion of democracy.
reminds me of that expression "If I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you!"



Like the U.S you have to register to vote in Australia but if one forgets then no harm no fowl just dont bitch about the govt the other thing is if you are registered and you dont vote you will be fiend like $50 bucks or something not to sure on the fine amount though. It makes for a greater base for the politicians to get a feel for how the voteing population is feeling at the time.



Its a $50 fine for state elections, I forgot to vote in 2004 and got fined. I think federal elections has a higher fine, but Im not sure.

And if you dont like the candidates, or just dont want to vote, but dont want to be slapped with the fine, theres always the option of not filling out the ballot.

BGage

BGage

Los Angeles, CA
March 2004

JUL 18, 2006 10:03 PM

FellOnEarth said:
Aw hell, let's just turn those fucking Diebold voter (fraud) machines into video slot machines, we'll probably all still get the same results anyways (most of us lose and the house always wins). The assholes in congress will never go for changing the system they've rigged.

Want to fix the apathy? You've got to fix the "fixed" system. You're vote should ALWAYS count with a popular majority vote deciding presidential races (instead of some archaic electoral college), .



The electoral college is an important part of our system of checks and balances, and its purpose is to safeguard our liberties from the tyranny of the mob. Raw democracy is not, in and of itself, a defense against oppression. 90% of the people in this country (according to bullshit polls, anyway) support a law or constitutional ammendment outlawing flag-burning. Most of them aren't too crazy about gay people, want prayer in schools, and something like 80% believe in ANGELS as physically real things. Still want your Government of the proletariat? Our Founding Fathers created an elaborate system to defend you and me from THEM, and the Electoral College is an important part of it. If it's any comfort, minority-vote presidents are only elected in very close elections, and Bush won both elections (especially 2004) by massive fraud that would've made Joe Kennedy blush. In other words, don't blame the system for the mess we're in, blame the thieves and bullies who hijacked it and got us here.

BGage

BGage

Los Angeles, CA
March 2004

JUL 18, 2006 10:06 PM

Lior said:

whitepuma said:

BGage said:

Chaolin said:
Why not just make it mandatory to vote like it is here in Australia?



Mandatory? ugh, what a perversion of democracy.
reminds me of that expression "If I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you!"



Like the U.S you have to register to vote in Australia but if one forgets then no harm no fowl just dont bitch about the govt the other thing is if you are registered and you dont vote you will be fiend like $50 bucks or something not to sure on the fine amount though. It makes for a greater base for the politicians to get a feel for how the voteing population is feeling at the time.



Its a $50 fine for state elections, I forgot to vote in 2004 and got fined. I think federal elections has a higher fine, but Im not sure.

And if you dont like the candidates, or just dont want to vote, but dont want to be slapped with the fine, theres always the option of not filling out the ballot.



it's still an obnoxious intrusion into your life. At least the fine's not so bad. $50 Australian, that's what, $1.98 U.S?

Anton

Anton

Australia
September 2003

JUL 18, 2006 10:12 PM

Chaolin said:
Why not just make it mandatory to vote like it is here in Australia?


Agreed. It's pretty close to being a genuinely representive democracy (for better or worse... and keeping in mind that the odds of any major party making it into parliament are close to non-existent).

Cigarette

Cigarette

Cleveland, OH
April 2004

JUL 18, 2006 10:57 PM

BGage said:

The electoral college is an important part of our system of checks and balances, and its purpose is to safeguard our liberties from the tyranny of the mob. Raw democracy is not, in and of itself, a defense against oppression.



That argument would work if we were still using the electoral college as the founding fathers intended.

When the electoral college was first used, there was no popular vote. State legislatures chose electors who cast their own votes for president. So why should anyone believe that the electoral college is effective? It no longer has anything to do with how it was intended to be used.

FellOnEarth

FellOnEarth

Temecula, CA
April 2006

JUL 21, 2006 04:04 AM

Clov said:

BGage said:

The electoral college is an important part of our system of checks and balances, and its purpose is to safeguard our liberties from the tyranny of the mob. Raw democracy is not, in and of itself, a defense against oppression.



That argument would work if we were still using the electoral college as the founding fathers intended.

When the electoral college was first used, there was no popular vote. State legislatures chose electors who cast their own votes for president. So why should anyone believe that the electoral college is effective? It no longer has anything to do with how it was intended to be used.



Exactly! Archaic as I said before, thanks Clov. The concept and idea of an electoral college once held some water, but today it is an unfair representation of REAL democracy and misrepresents the country's actual general sentiment.

Because state election laws vary by state, the countries total electoral votes aren't an accurate representation of the actual voters to begin with. Most states have winner take all with only a handful of states that try to divide electoral votes based on percentage of votes corresponding to the general vote (more democratic). The net result of red states vs. blue states paints the country with an inaccurate brush and only serves to create a divisive image. There is a disproportionate representation of electoral votes for states with smaller populations compared to that of populace states (meaning smaller populations have more representation than the larger ones), therefore the system is unfair to the voter.

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