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hi

Hey there, Marielaa!! How are you, bud?

I'm going to keep this short.
My husband is a nudist and he loves going to the retreats and resorts.
He used to be into open relationships but when we met he explained to me that he didn't want that anymore. He expressed to me that he didn't want an open relationship with me because he truly is in love with me. I myself have never been in an open relationship but I believe that if you are in love with someone you can't really have an open relationship.
Well, I know I couldn't. That's just me though.

Best of luck to you.

Hey there,

First of all, my condolences on your father's passing. It has been a few months since you posted this, so hopefully the pain and shock of losing him is slowly giving way to a celebration of his life and fondness in revisiting old memories of the time you spent with him. I cannot say that I know what it's like to lose a parent. I did lose my grandfather when I was 12, and he was my best friend. He was a fireman and a family man, a self-effacing hero who devoted his life to those he loved, and I was the world to him. One of the few regrets I have in life is that he didn't live to see me grow up to be the man I am becoming, so that I could make him proud, give back some of that love to him, learn more from him, and most importantly share more moments and bond with him some more. Anyway, all this to say that I sympathize with your pain, and in time I hope you find peace regarding his passing, and that it leads you to an even deeper appreciation of what you had with him.

Now regarding your question, I have to mention that I have never been in an open relationship before, so please take this for what it is, i.e. advice from someone who's never been there, with different viewpoints and his own biases. I can see why an open relationship would be fulfilling, and I have always wanted to enter one. I am insanely busy with school, and I have my own life and wish to have my own experiences, without having to have to report to someone constantly regarding my whereabouts and activities, and I am a loner who needs his space. Being in an open relationship would be the only relationship I could accommodate right now, the only one that would make sense and fit into my life, rather than uproot it entirely. Mostly though, I just really hate clingy, needy people who latch on to you and use you as their crutch. It seems to me as if, oftentimes, an exclusive relationship comes with a set of boundaries that goes beyond the lack of sexual exploration with other partners, for instance a great commitment of time and energy, which often has to be maintained as part of a schedule, much like a chore really. I find that this takes away from the excitement of being with another person, takes the spontaneity and the fun out of it, which is likely what drew you in in the first place. My sister will flat out not be in a relationship with another person who needs a regular commitment of time, because she likes to be able to ''disappear for a few days without having someone worry about or need her", and then pop back up randomly. She wants to be with someone who is not only okay with that, but who actually LIKES that and appreciates the spontaneity in that, and the fact that it is much more natural. What's important to note here is that she does not wish this because she wants to go and sleep with other men, but simply because she wants to enjoy unlimited freedom, except for sex with other partners. My sister has been with her boyfriend for 4 years now, so I guess that is possible. It is not an open relationship per se, but it is non traditional in that in comes free of expectations other than sexual exclusivity. One of my best friends, 20-some years older than me, has been with his girlfriend of 15 years. He is very intelligent, worldly, and a wealth of knowledge, and I always look to him for advice. When he was younger and perhaps in the first 5-10 years of his relationship, he cheated many times with his girlfriend. He told me that this brought him closer to his girlfriend, and he was dead serious when he told me this...So, although cheating is obviously a breach of trust, the parallel here is that if you don't cheat, with overt sexual advances or activities with another person, but actually share some for of bonding, sharing, cuddling that by many would be construed as intimacy, you are in fact most likely getting closer to your partner as a result. This would be both because you are allowed by your partner to go out and have experiences with other women, which in itself is an emotional sacrifice on the part of your partner for the sake of your own personal development, and also because by seeing who else is out there and connecting with them, yet ultimately showing restraint, you gain a greater appreciation of what you do have with your partner.

So my point with that last example is that perhaps your girlfriend sees your actions at the nudist retreat as a transgression, when it is in fact good for your relationship. It is good because it is letting you go and giving you your freedom out of love, only to have you come back to her more loving and appreciative of what you share with her. Maybe she doesn't see it that way because she is more selfish and possessive than she is loving, but most likely it is simply because she is insecure. She was probably caught up in her own emotions and insecurities when you told her this, and too hurt in the moment to appreciate the sensitive nature and the meaning of this getaway, what with your father's passing and your frame of mind at the time. Hopefully, between the time when you wrote this post and now, she has had a chance to reflect on what you needed at the time, and that it was not sexual and is in no way threatening to your relationship. I don't even think that there not being a phone is an issue at all; wasn't the retreat a way to get away from things and people and your everyday grind in the first place, precisely because you needed to unclutter your mind from all of it to allow yourself to grieve fully and to immerse yourself in your pain so you could heal? You skipping out of the hot tub, leaving this girl behind, and calling your girlfriend for permission would have been completely unnatural. She wouldn't have understood, because being in the state of mind you were in, not to mention the sedation, you probably could not have explained the nature of this experience properly. She also would not have been able to understand it, seeing as she reacted the way she did when you told her calmly and soberly to her face when you got back. If she blew up on you like that when you were there for her to look you in the eyes and see that you were genuine in what you were telling her, imagine how she would have felt when you were telling her this at the other end of a phone connection. And most importantly, you leaving the hot tub to call your girlfriend would have entirely broken the spirit of the retreat, it would have brought you back to the "real world'' you needed to escape from, would have ruined the rest of your retreat, and would have made you miss out on an all important moment of connecting and grieving in your life, and would have hindered your grieving process. It would have been imposing on her part, and would have been a major restriction on your freedom.

Now having said that, I would be a complete hypocrite if I said that I would not have felt more than a pang of jealousy if my partner came back from a nudist retreat to tell me of intense kissing and sharing with another naked person in a hot tub. Here's what I might have been thinking: if my partner needed some time to get away from things to think, grieve, make peace with something, etc, wouldn't it make more sense for them to just go off by themselves somewhere secluded in nature, rather than with many other people at a nudist retreat? And the part that might hurt a lot, more than sex perhaps, is that my partner would have had to find a stranger to connect with, share a deeply passionate kiss, and find understanding. Why couldn't I, their partner, provide that for them? Even if there was no sex, to her there probably was the apparent need to seek someone else to share deeply personal thoughts, feelings, emotions, rather than share those with her. So perhaps you need to emphasize that you did not go SEEKING that, but rather found it when all you were seeking was peace and quiet, and that it ended up being welcome and beneficial to you, and that if she would have been at the nudist retreat with you, you most likely would have shared this with her...At the same time though, I find that when you are in a relationship and are emotionally involved, it becomes hard sometimes to share certain things with your partner, because there are expectations that place a limitation on the relationship. Sometimes what you really need is a stranger who doesn't know anything about you so that they won't judge you, won't try to take that burden away from you, won't ask anything from you in return for listening (consciously or unconsciously), won't expect that they have the responsibility and ability to make it all better for you, but rather will just LISTEN to what you have to say. And then later you won't have to face them after having shared this with them, because they were a total stranger and you will never see them again. There's something very special about connecting with and opening up to total strangers. I have found that often these are the most meaningful and rewarding conversations and moments I have, because there are no expectations and you can totally be yourself.

I don't think I will talk about the ground rules you two had established before, and your respective interpretations of those rules, because as you mentioned I don't have her side of the story, so I truly cannot tell which is the truth, and most likely the 'right interpretation' is very debatable anyway, even if both of you remember the conversation word for word. But it does seem to me like you two have different expectations of the relationship, and that perhaps she is the one who is more emotionally attached, or needy perhaps, as much as you do love her. I also think that, after two years, or after any significant period of time, that initial conversation and the initial expectations may need to be revised, as the relationship may have evolved. I think that at the start of a relationship, I would be very casual indeed, and more intrigued and lustful than deeply involved and connected emotionally with the other person. But inevitably, it seems that as time passes, there is this sort of 'bubble' that forms, that bubble being the relationship, and that this bubble includes you and her, and no one else. This bubble is very comforting and familiar, but also a bit of a trap and yes, it does place its limitations, even if unspoken. Actions often speak louder than words. If you two started spending more and more time together as the relationship progressed, and that you did not need to seek out other female encounters, even if just for a chat, then you may have established a precedent of sorts, and then after that there will be expectations, albeit unspoken, that this is how the relationship now is and will be from that point on...

As you mentioned yourself, it does seem that clarity here is of the utmost importance, because this to me seems like a delicate situation, one in which both parties may not define the terms ''open'' or ''exclusive'', and especially ''cheating'' in the same way...

So here's my advice: I think you need to not worry or focus on what was said initially in that conversation about what was and what was not to be allowed, and how the boundaries were established and need to be interpreted, as if you were two lawyers arguing over the interpretation of an important clause in the constitution. I think you need to ask her to tell you what her expectations, needs, and limitations are in the now, at the current point in your relationship, and in light of this disagreement on what it means to cheat. I don't think you need to either beg for forgiveness or act indignant. If you do either of those things, you will either give her power in the relationship (beg) or assume power (indignation). Either way someone's freedom, feelings, desires, happiness will be repressed for the sake of who was in the right here, if anyone...ultimately that will lead to someone harboring resentment and feeling bullied by the other, and these feelings, until properly expressed, will fester, and probably eventually blow up in an unhealthy and exaggerated and unfair manner in the other person's face.

Nobody was wrong or right here, and the only thing that matters here is moving forward. So this past event needs to matter only insofar as it helps you redefine boundaries more clearly, and help you redefine your relationship moving forward. Your relationship is a dynamic thing, not static in the least. What applied two years ago, even if it had been defined perfectly, may no longer hold as feelings evolve. Before you can put this disagreement to good use and strengthen your relationship though, you need to explain to her what this was to you, why you needed it, what it meant and what it did not mean, and why you needed to be alone or to share with a stranger and not her...I don't presume to tell you what this was, only you know, and only telling her the truth can redeem your relationship in my opinion. And if it doesn't then, perhaps you two are incompatible?

On a personal yet related note, there is this girl in school whom I really admire. I have never been shy with girls, but I am so spastic and awkward when it comes to Sarah, it's not even funny. Normally I am very confident with girls and just go for it. Not with Sarah.I am so intimidated by her. She is so driven and focused and perfect in every way, I feel as though she is so unattainable. Yet the more I talk to her, the more compelled I become to find out more, as this just keeps getting better. She is gorgeous and a major overachiever, I love the way she thinks, etc, etc, etc...She just blows my mind. I am normally not intimidated by other people's intelligence, but she is at least as smart as I am, which if I may say so is saying something. Sometimes though, and this is how this relates to your problem, I feel as though if I were to enter a relationship with her, I would be the one who cares more, sacrifices more, is more emotionally involved, and I don't know that this is a favorable, or easy position to be in...I know this is clich, but there is always one in the relationship who cares more. Even if both people are very loving. This may be taxing on that person at times, because they are the one doing most of the work, yet getting the least attention. Maybe this is the case with you girlfriend. And maybe she was okay with that, up until the point where you shared this night with another woman, albeit not sexually. Keep in mind that women put less value on sex than men, and more on emotionally connection and involvement, so this may have been at least as painful as if you had told her you had sex with this other woman, only without feelings involved...This is all just conjecture at this point, but hopefully food for thought... All this to say, make sure not to take your girlfriend for granted, and to give her the attention she deserves, even if not on demand or on schedule so to speak. She may be more inclined to be understanding when you go away on retreats. I have to say in all honesty that if a goddess like Sarah dated me, I would be in awe each and everyday, but would be insecure at times because she could have essentially whomever she wanted. I may be a great catch, but she is the perfect catch. No homo here, but you seem like a great catch yourself, and I am sure that being the refined gentleman that you are, you have an effect on most women even when not trying to. This is probably not lost on your girlfriend, and she may need attention and reassurance from time to time, so if she feels like you're all hers, but do need your space as well, again she will probably be more understanding than she was that one time...

I hope this helps a little bit, but keep in mind that this comes from a guy who's never been in an open relationship before and who, albeit not overly jealous, is not entirely free from pangs of jealousy at times...And by the way, your blog is really interesting,and I want to respond to more posts, I am just very busy though so my replies may be sporadic. I totally get your exasperation though (expressed in another post of yours) about writing out long posts that ultimately may go unread. The way I look at this is that this is like an online diary. Do it for yourself, and tell yourself that writing a diary brings about a healthy amount of introspection, and is healthy for you. And if you get a response, or make a cool, smart friend who responds to your blog, well take that as an unexpected and pleasant bonus you get for writing a diary...

Oh, and seeing as you wrote this a while back and I just joined less than a month ago, please let me know what happened with your girlfriend (if you are back with her or not, how things are going with her, etc...) in the months that followed this post.

Cheers,

Patrick

Thank you for your comments on my photo album, much appreciated.

I'm so sorry to hear about your Father. I'm not sure of his current status, but my thoughts are with you.

I had never heard of Crohn's Disease before I met my boyfriend nine years ago, and I was not a fan when I became acquainted with it. He too has had to undergo a colectomy, and various complications, through the years. Years to come are murky, but as you say, you can only prevail, family and friends can make all the difference.

You deserved that comment, Jamity!

Thanks for the good advice, Kay. I did a WHOLE lot of salt water gargling, but it must have been a bad bug because it didn't get knocked out until I got antibiotics from my doctor.

P.S: I will definitely check out Apory's pics right now!!

And also, life has been kinder to me recently. I am still shorter on money than I should be, but much better than I have been. My boom and bust has been more boom of late. I actually got paid for two days of work recently that I never even worked, and it was not a mistake or something I should fear anyone finding out about; it simply was the result of just how insanely managed my workplace is. For a 150 year old company they have learned nearly nothing about how to manage their employees. Anyway, so the extra money is really working for me.

My favorite comment yet:

"It makes me smile, but makes me sad too. I'm definitely a creature of the woods. I had no cellphone until late 2010 when I came to Italy. The less I own the happier I am."

-I love your attitude, Feyne!