Georgia-by-way-of-Alabamas Drive-By Truckers are by nature what so many bands today aspire to be by artifice: authentic, American, rootsy rocknroll. They first hit the national radar with their third album, Southern Rock Opera, an ambitious double-album which used the story of Lynyrd Skynyrd as a metaphor for the decline of the South as a whole. Ever since, even while weathering lineup and label changes, theyve cranked out a great new record on a near-yearly basis in a decade-long winning streak that few bands have equaled. Part of the reason for this consistency has been that the band has always contained at least three of the best singer/songwriters working today, starting with the core duo of Patterson Hood and Mike Cooley, and including guitarist Jason Isbell, who left the band in 2007, and his then-wife, bassist Shonna Tucker, who remained and grew into an accomplished songwriter in her own right. Hood seems to be the frontman of the group if there is one, but Cooleys songs -- while as scarce as his words in conversation -- are as key to Drive-By Truckers records as George Harrisons were to the Beatles.
Keith Daniels: You guys pushed it pretty hard last year. How are you feeling now? Are you ready for the next four months?
Mike Cooley: [Laughs] Yeah, I guess so. Im as ready as Ill be. Hopefully one more busy year, and then we can park it for a while after this. But were having a good time. Were in a good place, you know?
KD: How long off are we talking about?
MC: If it were up to me, Id say a year! But well still be doin shows. We still have to work. [Laughs] But were just not going to be doin any month-long tours or anything like that.
KD: You guys have been going non-stop for the last... ten years?
MC: Oh yeah. Yeah, we havent really stopped much since 97.
KD: If you got some significant time off, what would you most look forward to doing?
MC: Hopefully writin some songs!
KD: How was opening for Tom Petty last year. Do you have any interesting stories about that?
MC: It was a great experience, but mostly uneventful. At this point in my life, thats a good thing. Were all huge fans. It was fun. Their crowd was nice to us, receptive to us, and we had a lot of our fans there, too.
KD: Did you get to spend any time with him, personally?
MC: No, I never met him. [Laughs] He came by our dressing room to say hello on the last show, and I wasnt in there. [Laughs] I met Mike Campbell and Scott Thurston.
KD: Mike Campbells got to be a hero...
MC: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Hes as good as it gets.
KD: Youre an old pro at the touring business by now. What do you do to prepare for a tour, to get yourself in shape?
MC: Not much. Ive gotten pretty good at packing so I dont have to think about that anymore. It never really stops, you know? Im home for anywhere from a week to three weeks. So, I try to spend as much time as I can giving my attention to the family and everything at home, and then wait til the last minute to pack and leave.
KD: Might as well not even unpack your suitcase. Just leave your toothbrush in there.
MC: I dont! Somethings I dont!
KD: Listening to this record and The Big To-Do, it sounds like you guys were maybe having more fun than youve had recording some of the previous ones.
MC: We were having a lot of fun, for sure. We usually do. Its just gotten a little bit easier. I think the bands playing together really well. I dont really remember anything specific about recording this. It was all so effortless.
KD: Big To-Do and Go-Go Boots were mostly recorded around the same time. Why did you feel you needed to split them up into two separate records?
MC: We had a lot of songs, mainly, and there were two different kinds of songs that were there. We didnt want another really long album, and we didnt want to sit on any of this stuff for another two or three years either. We were all kind of wanting to get everything we had, everything we recorded, and get it out. So the two albums [idea] appeared pretty early. It was pretty obvious we had two different projects going on at the same time.
KD: Some of your songs have been kicking around for a long time. Im thinking of Polaski, for example. You were playing that back in 2005. Is it often the case that they have to gel for a while before they end up on a record?
MC: Not necessarily. Id kind of forgotten about that song, actually. I wrote it in like 97. Its been around a long time. We had time to record, and I happened to go in the studio and Patterson [Hood] happened to remember it because itd been floating around some solo show I did a long time ago.
KD: In Cartoon Gold theres a line, Jesus made the flowers but it took a dog to make the story good. Is that what you look for in a story, the dark little details, like the dog shit being tracked on the floor?
MC: Oh yeah. Well, thats just part of it. I dont know why I thought of that, but it cracked me up, so... [Laughs] I dont even know what the Hell it means!
KD: [Laughs] Your songs often have those kinds of witty, quotable lines. Do you ever come up with a line like that and then build a song around it?
MC: A lot of the time, yeah. Sometimes the first line that pops into your head is not always going to be the first of the line of the song, and the longer it takes to figure that out the longer it takes to finish it. Sometimes itll be that one that comes to mind first. Sometimes the ones people end up quoting or the ones that stand out are the ones I come across later.
KD: Your songs are always highlights of every Drive-by Truckers record, but there are usually only two or three. Is writing like pulling teeth for you? Are you really critical of your own work?
MC: Yeah, I am. I didnt start writing at a young age, and Ive never turned out a lot of songs. If I write four or five in a year thats like a lot. I will think about em a long time before Ill ever commit em to anything.
KD: So you have to be perfectly satisfied with it before youll show it to the rest of the band?
MC: Oh yeah. Yeah.
KD: Are you ever envious of Pattersons ability to crank em out?
MC: Im envious of everybody who can do that! But thats just never been me.
KD: Used to Be a Cop has this really killer, funky bass line. How has Shonnas influence changed the bands sound? Is she part of the reason this record goes for that southern soul shes such a fan of?
MC: Yeah. Weve been able to play a lot more of that stuff because shes capable of playing stuff like that, so we dont have to work around limitations. Doing these other projects with Booker T. [Jones] and Bettye Lavette locked us in on a lot of those sounds and grooves. Weve been able to explore that side and find our own way of doing it.
KD: What did working with legends like that teach you that you hadnt realized before?
MC: Its hard to say. It is a learning experience. Mainly, wed never been a back-up band before, so it was cool, actually. It was nice and challenging to be doing something thats not our thing. You have to learn how to play together and listen to each other more closely than you would if you were in your comfort zone. You really get a grip on the less is more concept -- finding your place and stayin in it.
KD: In one of the episodes youve posted online for Go-Go Boots, Brad [Morgan] was talking about how, when youre recording one of your songs, you like to get it on one take. What do you feel is special about the first take?
MC: It doesnt always happen, but I always prefer the early ones. You lose some of the spontaneity -- some of the life -- the more you play it. Every now and then you do one over and over and over and its actually gettin better; if it is, you run with it, but most of the time when we do that well put it aside and come back maybe the next day or a couple of days later and then play it when everybody knows it. But if you can get it early its great. Youll usually have more mistakes here and there, and therell be some things you dont play quite as slick and polished as you do in the later takes but youre going to have something about it that holds your attention.
KD: It reminds me of something Jeff Tweedy from Wilco said about one of Fleetwood Macs songs on Rumours. Lindsay Buckingham was a notorious perfectionist, but if you listen closely you can still hear his fingers squeak on the bridge of the guitar. Is that the kind of imperfection that brings a song to life for you?
MC: That kind of thing doesnt bother me. Strings squeak. Some of that stuffs just part of the sound, you know? There are people who will just labor and go nuts. There is a limit, but those kinds of things dont really bother me. I can get it to a point where I know I could probably do it better, but it wont be any better, yknow? So I just leave it alone.
KD: I havent seen it, unfortunately, because it hasnt been possible yet where I live, but how did The Secret to a Happy Ending come about?
MC: It went over a few years. Barr [Weissman] approached us, initially, out of the blue. He was at one of our shows. He is a film-maker, anyway, thats what he does for a living, and [we] just seemed to be the subject matter hed been lookin for -- somethin of a more personal nature.
KD: Theres a concept Ive heard you guys talk about called the movie version. Are there elements to the stories you guys are interested in telling that can only be conveyed in a film?
MC: I hope not. [Laughs] I dont want to play me in a movie again for a while. But yeah, the two art forms are really interrelated. The kind of songs Ive always liked are the ones that are visual in nature and kind of set-up and play out like a film or a play. I think the kind of stuff we write takes that path, so yeah, I guess [Drive-by Truckers] and film are kind of a natural match, but again, Im going to get somebody else to play me.
KD: You guys have always been really good about getting your records out on vinyl. The Deluxe Edition of Go-Go Boots looks incredible. Why is getting all your stuff out on vinyl so important?
MC: Well now its just kind of become the smart thing to do; its kind of become part of the process. Most everybodys doin it. We always wanted to, anyway, in the past. We all like vinyl. All the stuff I had growin up was all on vinyl, so I always thought itd be cool to have one of my own in that format. Luckily, everythings kind of worked out to where its become actual smart business instead of just a cool thing to do. Most of the labels that are working with especially independently-minded artists like us are all willin to do it, and its just become somethin you do now. Its cool.
KD: Whats the most prized record in your collection? The one youd save from a fire?
MC: Oh, I dunno. I dont really get all googly over records like some people do.
KD: How worried are you about the future of the South? Im from Oklahoma myself, and I see all these small towns that have just completely gone to shit. Everybodys left, or theyre on meth or welfare.
MC: You know, its hard to tell. I go from one end of the country to the other several times a year, and the corporate landscape is so dominant now... If I look out the window I cant tell by what the place looks like where the Hell I am. Theres Home Depot, theres Old Navy... Most of those things Im lookin at, somewhere behind it all is one of those small towns. [Laughs] Where I come from, its kind of always been that way as far as people movin away and businesses comin and goin. I dont know what the futures going to hold.
KD: A couple of years ago you guys were going through a really rough time. People were leaving the band, Patterson has talked about serious money problems, you left New West records... How do you feel about the state of the band now?
MC: Everythings cool! Were not having any problems. [Laughs] In this business, thats really what you can hope for. Its almost a no news is good news sort of thing. ATOs been really great at doing a lot of the things we want to do; in fact, some of the time theyve mentioned it first. Thats a great sign. There hasnt been any serious difference of opinion or way of goin about anything. Its been really cool.
Keith Daniels: You guys pushed it pretty hard last year. How are you feeling now? Are you ready for the next four months?
Mike Cooley: [Laughs] Yeah, I guess so. Im as ready as Ill be. Hopefully one more busy year, and then we can park it for a while after this. But were having a good time. Were in a good place, you know?
KD: How long off are we talking about?
MC: If it were up to me, Id say a year! But well still be doin shows. We still have to work. [Laughs] But were just not going to be doin any month-long tours or anything like that.
KD: You guys have been going non-stop for the last... ten years?
MC: Oh yeah. Yeah, we havent really stopped much since 97.
KD: If you got some significant time off, what would you most look forward to doing?
MC: Hopefully writin some songs!
KD: How was opening for Tom Petty last year. Do you have any interesting stories about that?
MC: It was a great experience, but mostly uneventful. At this point in my life, thats a good thing. Were all huge fans. It was fun. Their crowd was nice to us, receptive to us, and we had a lot of our fans there, too.
KD: Did you get to spend any time with him, personally?
MC: No, I never met him. [Laughs] He came by our dressing room to say hello on the last show, and I wasnt in there. [Laughs] I met Mike Campbell and Scott Thurston.
KD: Mike Campbells got to be a hero...
MC: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Hes as good as it gets.
KD: Youre an old pro at the touring business by now. What do you do to prepare for a tour, to get yourself in shape?
MC: Not much. Ive gotten pretty good at packing so I dont have to think about that anymore. It never really stops, you know? Im home for anywhere from a week to three weeks. So, I try to spend as much time as I can giving my attention to the family and everything at home, and then wait til the last minute to pack and leave.
KD: Might as well not even unpack your suitcase. Just leave your toothbrush in there.
MC: I dont! Somethings I dont!
KD: Listening to this record and The Big To-Do, it sounds like you guys were maybe having more fun than youve had recording some of the previous ones.
MC: We were having a lot of fun, for sure. We usually do. Its just gotten a little bit easier. I think the bands playing together really well. I dont really remember anything specific about recording this. It was all so effortless.
KD: Big To-Do and Go-Go Boots were mostly recorded around the same time. Why did you feel you needed to split them up into two separate records?
MC: We had a lot of songs, mainly, and there were two different kinds of songs that were there. We didnt want another really long album, and we didnt want to sit on any of this stuff for another two or three years either. We were all kind of wanting to get everything we had, everything we recorded, and get it out. So the two albums [idea] appeared pretty early. It was pretty obvious we had two different projects going on at the same time.
KD: Some of your songs have been kicking around for a long time. Im thinking of Polaski, for example. You were playing that back in 2005. Is it often the case that they have to gel for a while before they end up on a record?
MC: Not necessarily. Id kind of forgotten about that song, actually. I wrote it in like 97. Its been around a long time. We had time to record, and I happened to go in the studio and Patterson [Hood] happened to remember it because itd been floating around some solo show I did a long time ago.
KD: In Cartoon Gold theres a line, Jesus made the flowers but it took a dog to make the story good. Is that what you look for in a story, the dark little details, like the dog shit being tracked on the floor?
MC: Oh yeah. Well, thats just part of it. I dont know why I thought of that, but it cracked me up, so... [Laughs] I dont even know what the Hell it means!
KD: [Laughs] Your songs often have those kinds of witty, quotable lines. Do you ever come up with a line like that and then build a song around it?
MC: A lot of the time, yeah. Sometimes the first line that pops into your head is not always going to be the first of the line of the song, and the longer it takes to figure that out the longer it takes to finish it. Sometimes itll be that one that comes to mind first. Sometimes the ones people end up quoting or the ones that stand out are the ones I come across later.
KD: Your songs are always highlights of every Drive-by Truckers record, but there are usually only two or three. Is writing like pulling teeth for you? Are you really critical of your own work?
MC: Yeah, I am. I didnt start writing at a young age, and Ive never turned out a lot of songs. If I write four or five in a year thats like a lot. I will think about em a long time before Ill ever commit em to anything.
KD: So you have to be perfectly satisfied with it before youll show it to the rest of the band?
MC: Oh yeah. Yeah.
KD: Are you ever envious of Pattersons ability to crank em out?
MC: Im envious of everybody who can do that! But thats just never been me.
KD: Used to Be a Cop has this really killer, funky bass line. How has Shonnas influence changed the bands sound? Is she part of the reason this record goes for that southern soul shes such a fan of?
MC: Yeah. Weve been able to play a lot more of that stuff because shes capable of playing stuff like that, so we dont have to work around limitations. Doing these other projects with Booker T. [Jones] and Bettye Lavette locked us in on a lot of those sounds and grooves. Weve been able to explore that side and find our own way of doing it.
KD: What did working with legends like that teach you that you hadnt realized before?
MC: Its hard to say. It is a learning experience. Mainly, wed never been a back-up band before, so it was cool, actually. It was nice and challenging to be doing something thats not our thing. You have to learn how to play together and listen to each other more closely than you would if you were in your comfort zone. You really get a grip on the less is more concept -- finding your place and stayin in it.
KD: In one of the episodes youve posted online for Go-Go Boots, Brad [Morgan] was talking about how, when youre recording one of your songs, you like to get it on one take. What do you feel is special about the first take?
MC: It doesnt always happen, but I always prefer the early ones. You lose some of the spontaneity -- some of the life -- the more you play it. Every now and then you do one over and over and over and its actually gettin better; if it is, you run with it, but most of the time when we do that well put it aside and come back maybe the next day or a couple of days later and then play it when everybody knows it. But if you can get it early its great. Youll usually have more mistakes here and there, and therell be some things you dont play quite as slick and polished as you do in the later takes but youre going to have something about it that holds your attention.
KD: It reminds me of something Jeff Tweedy from Wilco said about one of Fleetwood Macs songs on Rumours. Lindsay Buckingham was a notorious perfectionist, but if you listen closely you can still hear his fingers squeak on the bridge of the guitar. Is that the kind of imperfection that brings a song to life for you?
MC: That kind of thing doesnt bother me. Strings squeak. Some of that stuffs just part of the sound, you know? There are people who will just labor and go nuts. There is a limit, but those kinds of things dont really bother me. I can get it to a point where I know I could probably do it better, but it wont be any better, yknow? So I just leave it alone.
KD: I havent seen it, unfortunately, because it hasnt been possible yet where I live, but how did The Secret to a Happy Ending come about?
MC: It went over a few years. Barr [Weissman] approached us, initially, out of the blue. He was at one of our shows. He is a film-maker, anyway, thats what he does for a living, and [we] just seemed to be the subject matter hed been lookin for -- somethin of a more personal nature.
KD: Theres a concept Ive heard you guys talk about called the movie version. Are there elements to the stories you guys are interested in telling that can only be conveyed in a film?
MC: I hope not. [Laughs] I dont want to play me in a movie again for a while. But yeah, the two art forms are really interrelated. The kind of songs Ive always liked are the ones that are visual in nature and kind of set-up and play out like a film or a play. I think the kind of stuff we write takes that path, so yeah, I guess [Drive-by Truckers] and film are kind of a natural match, but again, Im going to get somebody else to play me.
KD: You guys have always been really good about getting your records out on vinyl. The Deluxe Edition of Go-Go Boots looks incredible. Why is getting all your stuff out on vinyl so important?
MC: Well now its just kind of become the smart thing to do; its kind of become part of the process. Most everybodys doin it. We always wanted to, anyway, in the past. We all like vinyl. All the stuff I had growin up was all on vinyl, so I always thought itd be cool to have one of my own in that format. Luckily, everythings kind of worked out to where its become actual smart business instead of just a cool thing to do. Most of the labels that are working with especially independently-minded artists like us are all willin to do it, and its just become somethin you do now. Its cool.
KD: Whats the most prized record in your collection? The one youd save from a fire?
MC: Oh, I dunno. I dont really get all googly over records like some people do.
KD: How worried are you about the future of the South? Im from Oklahoma myself, and I see all these small towns that have just completely gone to shit. Everybodys left, or theyre on meth or welfare.
MC: You know, its hard to tell. I go from one end of the country to the other several times a year, and the corporate landscape is so dominant now... If I look out the window I cant tell by what the place looks like where the Hell I am. Theres Home Depot, theres Old Navy... Most of those things Im lookin at, somewhere behind it all is one of those small towns. [Laughs] Where I come from, its kind of always been that way as far as people movin away and businesses comin and goin. I dont know what the futures going to hold.
KD: A couple of years ago you guys were going through a really rough time. People were leaving the band, Patterson has talked about serious money problems, you left New West records... How do you feel about the state of the band now?
MC: Everythings cool! Were not having any problems. [Laughs] In this business, thats really what you can hope for. Its almost a no news is good news sort of thing. ATOs been really great at doing a lot of the things we want to do; in fact, some of the time theyve mentioned it first. Thats a great sign. There hasnt been any serious difference of opinion or way of goin about anything. Its been really cool.