Over the past five years, Austin rockers And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Dead have broken from Interscope, put out a series of increasingly challenging and complex albums, and started operating under their own imprint, Richter Scale Records. It's been a tough ride for Trail of Dead, but it's led them to their new LP, Tao of the Dead, which came together more easily than any record the band had ever done before. They finished it in just ten days.
Tao of the Dead is Trail of Dead's 7th full-length effort, featuring a slimmed-down four-person lineup of founding Trail members Conrad Keely and Jason Reese, lead guitarist Aaron Ford, and Midnight Masses frontman Autry Fulbright. They recorded the album in two parts, each with a different producer. Part I consists of 11 separate tracks, while part 2 is a continuous 16-minute track with six distinct movements. The Tao Te Ching, a classic Chinese text that dates back to the 6th century BC, provided a name for the record and the lyrics for part 2.
Trail's Conrad Keely is a visual artist as well as a musician -- his striking drawings appear on the band's album covers -- and he's releasing the beginning of a graphic novel along with Tao of the Dead. Listeners will have to draw their own connections between Keely's steampunk-tinged sci-fi story and Trail's music.
We talked to Keely and Fulbright about the making of Tao of the Dead, the influence of the Tao Te Ching, and Keely's new comics project.
Jay Hathaway:
Let's talk about your new album. How did it take shape into two different sides?
Conrad Keely:
It evolved that way. It was just natural that that was the right way to do it. We didn't have to talk about it or anything. It just kind of happened. That was the general experience with recording this record, as well.
JH:
Did you plan on bringing in two different producers for the two different sides? How did that happen?
CK:
We started one part with one producer -- our old producer, Chris Coady -- and he did part two with us. He did the basic track. But we always knew that we were going to do the full side with Frenchie [Chris "Frenchie" Smith], and I think the idea originally was that part 2 was going to be an EP, but instead we just made it part of the record.
JH:
So it just seemed like the two sides fit together naturally?
CK:
They fit together, but they're definitely separate. They're like two different experiences.
Autry Fulbright:
I listen to part 2 first, that's my experience, but I think everyone's going to be able to interpret it however they like as a whole thing. Even though we started with part 2 and continued with part 1 and they had their rightful places on the record, it stands as something that can be unique to anyone that listens to it.
JH:
How do you translate that to the live experience? Are you going to play the entire 16 minutes of part 2 at each show?
CK:
I think if we do side 2, we would like to perform it as one piece. It's not separable. So that's the plan, but part 1, we've already performed songs from that. The first time we played Weight of the Sun was a few months ago. I think the answer is that we don't know yet.
JH:
Is the tour lineup going to be just the four of you? I know it was kind of a stripped-down band for the recording of this album.
CK:
For now, I think it will have to be, but that's not saying that later on, we might not have more than one band. Obviously, we've been known for that. For now, we're just going to do the four thing, and it feels good this way.
JH:
Autry, are you in the band full time? Are you still doing Midnight Masses? What's your situation?
AF:
In a word, yes, to all of those things. I still have other projects that I'm working on, that include other members of Trail of Dead as well. I'm really just making music, and right now Trail of Dead is something I'm putting my focus on. I continue to look forward to more touring and more writing with everyone in it.
JH:
Did you contribute to the songwriting and the lyrics on this album? I know you're a writer yourself.
AF:
Not really to the lyrics. I think we were all under agreement that the Tao Te Ching was a great influence on part 2, and it became the album's namesake.
CK:
But the music was really collaboratively written on this record.
AF:
When we played together, a lot of the ideas came from jamming.
CK:
Which makes it different from some of our previous records, I think.
AF:
It was really great to just go in and make ideas bounce off each other, especially since we hadn't played in that capacity together before.
CK:
Yeah.
JH:
This is the second album you've put out on your own label ...
CK:
You mean under the Richter Scale imprint? I guess, officially. I consider everything we've done to be under the imprint of what we do. I just gave it a logo. I mean, we've never done any of our records without the help of the labels, really.
JH:
How are things different for you now than they were five years ago, when you were on a major label?
CK:
I think a lot of that pressure is internal. I think that back then I was a lot more stressed out about putting stuff out, but I don't think that came from the label. I think that was just self-imposed. And these days, I feel a little bit less self-conscious about it. The label has been a huge help. One of the things I really like about working with Superball is that there's so many different new formats, and ways to put things out, and it's been kind of an adventure finding out ... I mean, this album was done in four different formats, and we've never done that in the past.
JH:
You guys are doing vinyl for this record, then?
CK:
The vinyl's going to be three sides, with an engraving on the fourth side.
JH:
It must have been fun to do the cover art for that, and get a bigger canvas.
CK:
I've always designed on vinyl size. Even the albums that we didn't put out on vinyl were always ready for vinyl. They just had to be shrunk down to CD. I always design intending it to be 12 inches.
JH:
You're a band that's always made albums that are meant to be listened to as albums. With the success of iTunes, and music sales increasingly focusing on individual tracks, what do you think about the future of the album as a format?
AF:
I feel like the fact that we're doing it means that people are still doing it. The music that we both like are albums. In the 90s, where it was a more CD-driven music world, and a band could have one good song, and you'd have to buy the entire CD. To me, an album wasn't good unless it had several great songs, which meant the whole record had to be really good. I wasn't just thinking about that one song in the middle of the album. I listened to the album from start to finish.
CK:
Also, I think there are lots of bands that -- at least, the bands that I admire these days -- are putting out albums.
AF:
I feel like that's my favorite music that's around now. I don't believe in just a ...
CK:
iTunes shuffle!
AF:
Yeah!
CK:
Unless you're having a dance party. Then it's okay.
JH:
What are some of those bands? Who's putting out really great music at the moment?
CK:
I like the Die Antwoord album a lot. I was really obsessed with them. The new Beach House record, I think, is beautiful from beginning to end. A complete album.
AF:
I think Tame Impala's record, Innerspeaker, and Steeple by Wolf People have been my two favorite ones. And again, those are albums I listen to from start to finish.
CK:
It's definitely not a dead art form, if that's what people are worried about.
JH:
How did the Tao Te Ching come to influence the record? Where did you run into that, and how did it ge written into the second part?
CK:
When we were recording part 2, and I needed some lyrics to sing for the scratch vocals, and the only book that was around was the Tao Te Ching. The lyrics just fit. The reason that it struck a chord was that I'd been reading The Art of War and this book by Baltasar Gracian called The Art of Worldly Wisdom. Although all three of these were not written in the same time period, they all expressed a really close philosophy. I was surprised that the Tao Te Ching wasn't a religious or spiritual book as much as it was a practical book.
JH:
Have you finished the comic you're working on, this graphic novel?
CK:
I haven't. We're hoping to work it into the next two records, actually. But I've finished enough that it's going to be released probably right after the record comes out.
JH:
How does that relate to the album? I haven't seen the comic yet, but I've heard it's a steampunk story that you've been working on for a long time ...
CK:
I don't want to tell you how it relates. I want you to discover by checking it out. Because I want to see the connections that people make. That's half the fun, I think. Does that make sense?
JH:
Yeah, definitely. So, we've been hearing a lot about steampunk recently but you've been working on this story since before there was any kind of trend ...
CK:
There were people who'd ask me if I was into steampunk before I'd heard of it, and I didn't know what they were talking about. They'd ask that in reference to my work, my drawings.
JH:
Do you consider your drawings steampunk?
CK:
It's a bit more grounded in science fiction. It takes place on another world that doesn't relate to earth at all. It depends. It's such a wide genre. I consider Jules Verne the father of it, in a way. He was a big influence on me.
JH:
It seems like every time you put out an album, it gets compared to Source Tags and Codes. How do you feel about that, and what's your opinion of that album now?
CK:
As you can well imagine, that's kind of frustrating in some ways. Especially when I think about this perfect rating we were given by a popular online magazine. I didn't even think it was a perfect album. I don't think of that as a perfect album for us. I think of it as a developmental album. It was what helped us develop into what we are, but it wasn't some kind of penultimate statement. I guess I just have to apologize to all those people who think that was our best record, because I feel I've moved on from it. I'm probably happier about our new record than I am about any record we've made, including Source Tags.
JH:
Is it that way every time you put out a record? Do you always feel like what you've just done is your best work?
CK:
No. The last three records were very difficult. They were disastrous in some ways. But that had more to do with the difficulty of making them, and all those things that happened when they were being made. It was kind of the opposite with this record, because there was such a flow and it was so easy. It just kind of came out, y'know? We had fun doing it.
Tao of the Dead is Trail of Dead's 7th full-length effort, featuring a slimmed-down four-person lineup of founding Trail members Conrad Keely and Jason Reese, lead guitarist Aaron Ford, and Midnight Masses frontman Autry Fulbright. They recorded the album in two parts, each with a different producer. Part I consists of 11 separate tracks, while part 2 is a continuous 16-minute track with six distinct movements. The Tao Te Ching, a classic Chinese text that dates back to the 6th century BC, provided a name for the record and the lyrics for part 2.
Trail's Conrad Keely is a visual artist as well as a musician -- his striking drawings appear on the band's album covers -- and he's releasing the beginning of a graphic novel along with Tao of the Dead. Listeners will have to draw their own connections between Keely's steampunk-tinged sci-fi story and Trail's music.
We talked to Keely and Fulbright about the making of Tao of the Dead, the influence of the Tao Te Ching, and Keely's new comics project.
Jay Hathaway:
Let's talk about your new album. How did it take shape into two different sides?
Conrad Keely:
It evolved that way. It was just natural that that was the right way to do it. We didn't have to talk about it or anything. It just kind of happened. That was the general experience with recording this record, as well.
JH:
Did you plan on bringing in two different producers for the two different sides? How did that happen?
CK:
We started one part with one producer -- our old producer, Chris Coady -- and he did part two with us. He did the basic track. But we always knew that we were going to do the full side with Frenchie [Chris "Frenchie" Smith], and I think the idea originally was that part 2 was going to be an EP, but instead we just made it part of the record.
JH:
So it just seemed like the two sides fit together naturally?
CK:
They fit together, but they're definitely separate. They're like two different experiences.
Autry Fulbright:
I listen to part 2 first, that's my experience, but I think everyone's going to be able to interpret it however they like as a whole thing. Even though we started with part 2 and continued with part 1 and they had their rightful places on the record, it stands as something that can be unique to anyone that listens to it.
JH:
How do you translate that to the live experience? Are you going to play the entire 16 minutes of part 2 at each show?
CK:
I think if we do side 2, we would like to perform it as one piece. It's not separable. So that's the plan, but part 1, we've already performed songs from that. The first time we played Weight of the Sun was a few months ago. I think the answer is that we don't know yet.
JH:
Is the tour lineup going to be just the four of you? I know it was kind of a stripped-down band for the recording of this album.
CK:
For now, I think it will have to be, but that's not saying that later on, we might not have more than one band. Obviously, we've been known for that. For now, we're just going to do the four thing, and it feels good this way.
JH:
Autry, are you in the band full time? Are you still doing Midnight Masses? What's your situation?
AF:
In a word, yes, to all of those things. I still have other projects that I'm working on, that include other members of Trail of Dead as well. I'm really just making music, and right now Trail of Dead is something I'm putting my focus on. I continue to look forward to more touring and more writing with everyone in it.
JH:
Did you contribute to the songwriting and the lyrics on this album? I know you're a writer yourself.
AF:
Not really to the lyrics. I think we were all under agreement that the Tao Te Ching was a great influence on part 2, and it became the album's namesake.
CK:
But the music was really collaboratively written on this record.
AF:
When we played together, a lot of the ideas came from jamming.
CK:
Which makes it different from some of our previous records, I think.
AF:
It was really great to just go in and make ideas bounce off each other, especially since we hadn't played in that capacity together before.
CK:
Yeah.
JH:
This is the second album you've put out on your own label ...
CK:
You mean under the Richter Scale imprint? I guess, officially. I consider everything we've done to be under the imprint of what we do. I just gave it a logo. I mean, we've never done any of our records without the help of the labels, really.
JH:
How are things different for you now than they were five years ago, when you were on a major label?
CK:
I think a lot of that pressure is internal. I think that back then I was a lot more stressed out about putting stuff out, but I don't think that came from the label. I think that was just self-imposed. And these days, I feel a little bit less self-conscious about it. The label has been a huge help. One of the things I really like about working with Superball is that there's so many different new formats, and ways to put things out, and it's been kind of an adventure finding out ... I mean, this album was done in four different formats, and we've never done that in the past.
JH:
You guys are doing vinyl for this record, then?
CK:
The vinyl's going to be three sides, with an engraving on the fourth side.
JH:
It must have been fun to do the cover art for that, and get a bigger canvas.
CK:
I've always designed on vinyl size. Even the albums that we didn't put out on vinyl were always ready for vinyl. They just had to be shrunk down to CD. I always design intending it to be 12 inches.
JH:
You're a band that's always made albums that are meant to be listened to as albums. With the success of iTunes, and music sales increasingly focusing on individual tracks, what do you think about the future of the album as a format?
AF:
I feel like the fact that we're doing it means that people are still doing it. The music that we both like are albums. In the 90s, where it was a more CD-driven music world, and a band could have one good song, and you'd have to buy the entire CD. To me, an album wasn't good unless it had several great songs, which meant the whole record had to be really good. I wasn't just thinking about that one song in the middle of the album. I listened to the album from start to finish.
CK:
Also, I think there are lots of bands that -- at least, the bands that I admire these days -- are putting out albums.
AF:
I feel like that's my favorite music that's around now. I don't believe in just a ...
CK:
iTunes shuffle!
AF:
Yeah!
CK:
Unless you're having a dance party. Then it's okay.
JH:
What are some of those bands? Who's putting out really great music at the moment?
CK:
I like the Die Antwoord album a lot. I was really obsessed with them. The new Beach House record, I think, is beautiful from beginning to end. A complete album.
AF:
I think Tame Impala's record, Innerspeaker, and Steeple by Wolf People have been my two favorite ones. And again, those are albums I listen to from start to finish.
CK:
It's definitely not a dead art form, if that's what people are worried about.
JH:
How did the Tao Te Ching come to influence the record? Where did you run into that, and how did it ge written into the second part?
CK:
When we were recording part 2, and I needed some lyrics to sing for the scratch vocals, and the only book that was around was the Tao Te Ching. The lyrics just fit. The reason that it struck a chord was that I'd been reading The Art of War and this book by Baltasar Gracian called The Art of Worldly Wisdom. Although all three of these were not written in the same time period, they all expressed a really close philosophy. I was surprised that the Tao Te Ching wasn't a religious or spiritual book as much as it was a practical book.
JH:
Have you finished the comic you're working on, this graphic novel?
CK:
I haven't. We're hoping to work it into the next two records, actually. But I've finished enough that it's going to be released probably right after the record comes out.
JH:
How does that relate to the album? I haven't seen the comic yet, but I've heard it's a steampunk story that you've been working on for a long time ...
CK:
I don't want to tell you how it relates. I want you to discover by checking it out. Because I want to see the connections that people make. That's half the fun, I think. Does that make sense?
JH:
Yeah, definitely. So, we've been hearing a lot about steampunk recently but you've been working on this story since before there was any kind of trend ...
CK:
There were people who'd ask me if I was into steampunk before I'd heard of it, and I didn't know what they were talking about. They'd ask that in reference to my work, my drawings.
JH:
Do you consider your drawings steampunk?
CK:
It's a bit more grounded in science fiction. It takes place on another world that doesn't relate to earth at all. It depends. It's such a wide genre. I consider Jules Verne the father of it, in a way. He was a big influence on me.
JH:
It seems like every time you put out an album, it gets compared to Source Tags and Codes. How do you feel about that, and what's your opinion of that album now?
CK:
As you can well imagine, that's kind of frustrating in some ways. Especially when I think about this perfect rating we were given by a popular online magazine. I didn't even think it was a perfect album. I don't think of that as a perfect album for us. I think of it as a developmental album. It was what helped us develop into what we are, but it wasn't some kind of penultimate statement. I guess I just have to apologize to all those people who think that was our best record, because I feel I've moved on from it. I'm probably happier about our new record than I am about any record we've made, including Source Tags.
JH:
Is it that way every time you put out a record? Do you always feel like what you've just done is your best work?
CK:
No. The last three records were very difficult. They were disastrous in some ways. But that had more to do with the difficulty of making them, and all those things that happened when they were being made. It was kind of the opposite with this record, because there was such a flow and it was so easy. It just kind of came out, y'know? We had fun doing it.