Comic book artists dont get more prolific than John Romita, Jr., whose acclaimed work with Marvel Comics spans over three decades and includes definitive illustrations on almost all the companys A-list brands, such as Spider-Man, X-Men, The Hulk, Iron Man, and The Punisher. His latest assignment in the Marvel universe is working alongside leading comic writer Brian Bendis on a big-picture reboot of The Avengers, the famed superhero comic that regularly teams up a handful of Marvel mainstays for collective adventures against ultra-powerful foes. Romitas assignment this time around: to create illustrations that reflect the companys desire to return the franchise to its traditional, upbeat roots after nearly a decade of downer storylines that saw Iron Man battling Spider-Man and similar episodes created to satisfy a cultural desire for darker superhero tales.
But those who think Romita is saying adios to edgy material should remember his most popular indie project to date: Kick-Ass. Created with writer Mark Millar (Wanted, Superman: Red Son) and first published by Marvel in 2008, Kick-Ass is an R-rated, decidedly meta story of real-world NYC teens who put on costumes and fight criminals, sometimes shattering bones and earning hospital stays in the process, while gradually becoming true heroes. The comic touched a nerve with its cutting humor and its depiction of foul-mouthed, pre-teen assassin Hit Girl, a modern day Baby Herman whose existence is seen by some as a middle finger to middle-class values. The Matthew Vaughn-directed film adaptation, released in April, made newcomer Chloe Moretz a star and cemented Kick-Ass in the zeitgeist, making further adventures for the characters inevitable. Romita recently called up SuicideGirls to talk superheroes and the future of Kick-Ass.
Ryan Stewart: Is the movie sequel to Kick-Ass essentially on hold until Matthew Vaughn finishes the X-Men movie?
John Romita, Jr.: Thats a good question. From what Ive been told and Im not positive -- but Ive been told that Matthew Vaughn will decide between producing and directing the sequel to Kick-Ass at a point when he is further along in the X-Men process. As far as I know, he wants to do it very badly. But with his schedule, who knows? I have to finish the series as quickly as possible so that he has the material in his hands, and I think then it will be entirely up to him.
RS: You were writing the first series almost while the first movie was being filmed, right?
JRJ: Well, we were a little bit ahead of the game in that I had done one or two issues before the screenplay was finished, but the filming began well after Id gotten the series done. And ironically, because of working on the film I couldnt finish the series quickly enough. They had me working on the film, the animated sequence, and I wasnt going to tell Matthew Vaughn Sorry, I cant do your movie because I still have a couple of comic books to draw. [laughs] That would have been an interesting conversation. So, I had to put something behind schedule and it ended up being the comic book series. Ultimately, it bothered me because I would have had more comic book sequences in the film had it all been done further in advance. It was a strange confluence of events, but thats exactly how things worked and it kind of set a precedent. I dont know if well do it again that way, but hopefully Ill be done with the new six issues well before filming begins, and then anything they would need from me wouldnt interfere with it and it would also allow me to help them out more. It worked out well the first time, but you dont want to try it again to see if it has to be done that way. Youd prefer to work from a position of strength and I think that having the series completely done before they begin would help that.
RS: Theres the one animated sequence in the Kick-Ass film that you created -- do you expect to do more such sequences in the sequel?
JRJ: I honestly dont know. Im available if they need me, but its entirely up to the director and the producers. If I can get the series done quickly enough, then Ill be able to do anything that they need at any time, but I dont know if Matthew is a director that would want to do something completely different from one film to the next or if he would want to be consistent. So, youd have to ask him. Hell need me for something! Ill sweep the floors if he wants.
RS: Are you doing any visual touch-ups to the look of the world or the main characters in the next installment of the comic, Kick-Ass: Balls to the Wall?
JRJ: The only thing is that Ive taken it upon myself to try and show a little bit of time passing. I want them to look a little bit older, perhaps a year older, but nothing drastic. There is a need for consistency, but we are in the real world in this series and I wanted to show a little bit of a difference. So, nothing immense, just Hit Girl looking slightly older, maybe a year or so. Chloe Moretz really aged in front of our eyes. This beautiful little girl became a beautiful woman, so I thought of the same thing for the character. Shes not really supposed to be any older, but I wanted to hedge my bets a little bit. The trick is to be consistent while also show a little bit of time passing.
RS: When you do conventions, do little girls dressed as Hit Girl ever come up and curse at you? Is she a role model?
JRJ: No little girls! There have been adults dressed as Hit Girl and Kick-Ass, but no little girls. And if the [role model] thing were to happen, it could be done without the foul language and the violence. I remember the words from Jane Goldman in the run-up to the film during the press junkets, when she said: I dont see a problem in the empowering of a little girl, as opposed to the victimization of a little girl. And she had a point. So, if a little girl comes by dressed up as Hit Girl and shes taken jujitsu lessons and can take care of herself, I see nothing wrong with that. Now, if she starts using foul language and swinging machetes, then Im in trouble!
RS: The cover of the first book famously promised Sickening Violence: Just The Way You Like It. Is that hard to top?
JRJ: Absolutely, and thats a great point, because it isnt so much topping myself in that I just have to top the content that Ive done -- I have to come up with creative ways to do it. This is the strangest thing, but I held back a beheading in the first series because I said That is too easy to do and I want to do something different and I may need that as a trump card. But then, at the end when Hit Girl dispatches the bad guy Mark said to split him right down the middle with an axe and I couldnt do it because thats too easy, thats what everyone would think of, visually. So, I had her do it from the side so that you could see his face. Those are the kind of sick thoughts that go through my mind, and Im a good Catholic boy from New York! [laughs] Just look at this, Im coming up with new and inventive ways to slaughter people! I do have to top myself by coming up with not just these brutally violent variations, but ones that make sense in the context and in the moment. For example, if they are outside as opposed to being in a kitchen then you cant have any kitchen utensils. If theyre outside they have to use whatever would be lying around, that kind of thing. And if Mark says Were going to do this in the middle of Times Square then theyre less likely to have knives, except for Hit Girl, who would bring her machetes. So, I wait until the scene dictates how the violence will progress, or at least I try. The problem is that Mark will come up with a scene where he says She should kill him with a bat to the back of the head and now its in the back of my mind that thats what he wants, and how do I go do that? I have to vary from what he has suggested and what Ive done before. However, the good thing is that at least I have something to go by and something to differ from. So, Ive actually helped myself in a certain way.
RS: Where do limits figure in, with an ultra-violent series like this? Im sure Marvel has limits in terms of what they want their name on. What about you?
JRJ: We pretty much own the project, with Marvel just distributing it. And so, no, there is no limit. Quote-unquote, there is no limit. There might be a tastefulness limit, I mean were not going to do pornography. Weve done some slight sexual content, but I dont think I would ever allow it to be taken too far. I would never do that. However, there will be some naked ladies. There will be some naked butts and there will be some naked men, but there wont be anything that I would be ashamed of. I do have my limits.
RS: I hear rumors about a new character called Mother Fucker. Does that mean anything to you?
JRJ: [laughs] It does mean something, thats a character! Look, Mark knows what he wants and the names have to be outrageous and different, and thats what were intending to do. I think the big difference between this and the first one is that there are more Kick-Asses than there were before. There are more costumed people, and some of these people are taking themselves seriously thats the difference between the two stories. Whereas it was a novelty in the beginning, its become less so now. And yes, theres a character called Mother Fucker. Mark wants the outrage factor and the shock value involved, and thats cool. Now I have to follow up with equally powerful costumes and visuals.
RS: Youre sort of straddling two worlds at the moment. Have you fallen in love with the movie business yet?
JRJ: I havent fallen in love with the business per se, but I was always in love with cinema. Getting involved in the business is something Im guarded about. I had this project and now there is interest in other projects. Should I be able to do it a couple of times and then people start coming to me, then wonderful, but Ive gotten one great quality from my father and that is being grounded. My feet are on the ground. Im a cartoonist who happens to be very lucky to be in this position. If it progresses and it allows me to do something that Ive always fantasized about, which is to direct a film, then so be it. But Im not going to get too far ahead of myself, if you know what I mean. Now, having said all of that, yes, I would give anything to be further involved in films from here on in because Ive always been fascinated by the process.
RS: Where do you think we are in terms of superhero movies and the public? Are people getting bored with it? Is Marvel thinking about that?
JRJ: Knowing the people who are involved in that whole spiel, I know that theyve anticipated that people can get tired of a genre. The trick is to be ahead of that curve. Marvel has always been able to come up with good stories, regardless of the premise. If you have a costumed character, you anticipate that there are going to be some people who are wary of that, rolling their eyes. The trick is to just come up with a good story, and Marvel does that. Look, Iron Man was one that no one expected to blow up into what it became. But Tony Starks story is a quality story, and in no small part thanks to Robert Downey, Jr. Iron Man was never considered to be a Spider-Man-level, A-list character, but if you have good stories you have a good quality product, and thats all there is to it.
RS: Its funny that the most popular superheroes tend to be 40 to 70 year-old properties. Why do you think that is?
JRJ: Because its like coming up with a new melody for a song. To me, that seems nearly impossible. To come up with something thats new and different has got to be so difficult, and Im amazed whenever one does appear. And perhaps its because there are already so many different characters and so many different ideas that are already out there. Its really almost impossible to come up with something new. Thats why Mark Millar is a genius and Brian Bendis is a genius these writers are geniuses. To be able to come up with a new idea on your own is amazing.
RS: A lot of people are excited about your new run on The Avengers, alongside Brian. Are you able to say anything about forthcoming stuff?
JRJ: Just to expect the unexpected. I cant get into details, except to say that this has it all. You have no idea how much can be put into a 23-page story until youve seen what Brian is asking for and what were delivering. I can say that the artwork is amazing because of Klaus Jansen and Dean White. And again I can say without hyperbole that Brian is really a genius, cause thats just the way it is.
RS: Would you like to be involved in The Avengers movie on some level?
JRJ: Sure! Id love to. If they call me, Im ready. If they need me for something, whatever they need me to do, Ill do it.
RS: Even though they are creator-owned, could the Kick-Ass characters ever be incorporated into the larger Marvel universe and interact with Marvel characters?
JRJ: I doubt it. I dont know that Marvel would allow it because of the legalities of it, since Mark and I own it. The people that own Marvel prefer to only use their own stock of characters, so, on the mundane, legal scale, no. And I also doubt that it could ever fit.
RS: Do you see any drawbacks in general to doing creator-owned stuff, as opposed to working inside the big tent?
JRJ: I dont see drawbacks in it; it really frees up the mind to come up with your own stories. However, one problem is falling in love with what you do, as opposed to seeing it in an unbiased way. You tend to think that whatever you have is quality, and you have to be able to stand back from it. If you have a creator-owned project, the writers and artists might consider it a quality story, but you have to be both subjective and objective about it. So, yeah, there are difficulties in creator-owned, its not easy. But I do embrace it because it frees up the genius of the creators, even though there is a danger that young creators can sometimes fall in love with what they think is a quality project.
RS: Kick-Ass is, of course, a take-off on the notion of real people putting on costumes and fighting crime. What do you think about the real-real world people who do that?
JRJ: Well, remember that before the costume craze there were, for years, patrols by people like the Guardian Angels in New York. There have always been neighborhood patrols, and now people are just putting on costumes. And I think the muggers and the burglars should be nervous. These people are not your everyday, average accountant. Ive met a whole slew of martial artists who are now putting on costumes. I think if you have a flashlight and a mask on and youre trying to break in through somebodys back door, Id watch your ass. There really are a lot of them out there now, and they will bust you up!
RS: If you had billions to spare, do you think you might become a superhero yourself?
JRJ: [laughs] Interestingly enough, Ive considered that. If I was that rich? Yes. I would find a way to do it, I really would.
RS: What would your name be?
JRJ: I dont know if Id even come up with a name, Id just want to be very quiet about it. I guess Id be the man with no name. Id be like Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter, just fading in and out, and nobody would ever know me. Id just be very quiet. Wait, how about that: The Quiet Man.
RS: I like it.
Kick-Ass is available this week on DVD and Blu-ray.
But those who think Romita is saying adios to edgy material should remember his most popular indie project to date: Kick-Ass. Created with writer Mark Millar (Wanted, Superman: Red Son) and first published by Marvel in 2008, Kick-Ass is an R-rated, decidedly meta story of real-world NYC teens who put on costumes and fight criminals, sometimes shattering bones and earning hospital stays in the process, while gradually becoming true heroes. The comic touched a nerve with its cutting humor and its depiction of foul-mouthed, pre-teen assassin Hit Girl, a modern day Baby Herman whose existence is seen by some as a middle finger to middle-class values. The Matthew Vaughn-directed film adaptation, released in April, made newcomer Chloe Moretz a star and cemented Kick-Ass in the zeitgeist, making further adventures for the characters inevitable. Romita recently called up SuicideGirls to talk superheroes and the future of Kick-Ass.
Ryan Stewart: Is the movie sequel to Kick-Ass essentially on hold until Matthew Vaughn finishes the X-Men movie?
John Romita, Jr.: Thats a good question. From what Ive been told and Im not positive -- but Ive been told that Matthew Vaughn will decide between producing and directing the sequel to Kick-Ass at a point when he is further along in the X-Men process. As far as I know, he wants to do it very badly. But with his schedule, who knows? I have to finish the series as quickly as possible so that he has the material in his hands, and I think then it will be entirely up to him.
RS: You were writing the first series almost while the first movie was being filmed, right?
JRJ: Well, we were a little bit ahead of the game in that I had done one or two issues before the screenplay was finished, but the filming began well after Id gotten the series done. And ironically, because of working on the film I couldnt finish the series quickly enough. They had me working on the film, the animated sequence, and I wasnt going to tell Matthew Vaughn Sorry, I cant do your movie because I still have a couple of comic books to draw. [laughs] That would have been an interesting conversation. So, I had to put something behind schedule and it ended up being the comic book series. Ultimately, it bothered me because I would have had more comic book sequences in the film had it all been done further in advance. It was a strange confluence of events, but thats exactly how things worked and it kind of set a precedent. I dont know if well do it again that way, but hopefully Ill be done with the new six issues well before filming begins, and then anything they would need from me wouldnt interfere with it and it would also allow me to help them out more. It worked out well the first time, but you dont want to try it again to see if it has to be done that way. Youd prefer to work from a position of strength and I think that having the series completely done before they begin would help that.
RS: Theres the one animated sequence in the Kick-Ass film that you created -- do you expect to do more such sequences in the sequel?
JRJ: I honestly dont know. Im available if they need me, but its entirely up to the director and the producers. If I can get the series done quickly enough, then Ill be able to do anything that they need at any time, but I dont know if Matthew is a director that would want to do something completely different from one film to the next or if he would want to be consistent. So, youd have to ask him. Hell need me for something! Ill sweep the floors if he wants.
RS: Are you doing any visual touch-ups to the look of the world or the main characters in the next installment of the comic, Kick-Ass: Balls to the Wall?
JRJ: The only thing is that Ive taken it upon myself to try and show a little bit of time passing. I want them to look a little bit older, perhaps a year older, but nothing drastic. There is a need for consistency, but we are in the real world in this series and I wanted to show a little bit of a difference. So, nothing immense, just Hit Girl looking slightly older, maybe a year or so. Chloe Moretz really aged in front of our eyes. This beautiful little girl became a beautiful woman, so I thought of the same thing for the character. Shes not really supposed to be any older, but I wanted to hedge my bets a little bit. The trick is to be consistent while also show a little bit of time passing.
RS: When you do conventions, do little girls dressed as Hit Girl ever come up and curse at you? Is she a role model?
JRJ: No little girls! There have been adults dressed as Hit Girl and Kick-Ass, but no little girls. And if the [role model] thing were to happen, it could be done without the foul language and the violence. I remember the words from Jane Goldman in the run-up to the film during the press junkets, when she said: I dont see a problem in the empowering of a little girl, as opposed to the victimization of a little girl. And she had a point. So, if a little girl comes by dressed up as Hit Girl and shes taken jujitsu lessons and can take care of herself, I see nothing wrong with that. Now, if she starts using foul language and swinging machetes, then Im in trouble!
RS: The cover of the first book famously promised Sickening Violence: Just The Way You Like It. Is that hard to top?
JRJ: Absolutely, and thats a great point, because it isnt so much topping myself in that I just have to top the content that Ive done -- I have to come up with creative ways to do it. This is the strangest thing, but I held back a beheading in the first series because I said That is too easy to do and I want to do something different and I may need that as a trump card. But then, at the end when Hit Girl dispatches the bad guy Mark said to split him right down the middle with an axe and I couldnt do it because thats too easy, thats what everyone would think of, visually. So, I had her do it from the side so that you could see his face. Those are the kind of sick thoughts that go through my mind, and Im a good Catholic boy from New York! [laughs] Just look at this, Im coming up with new and inventive ways to slaughter people! I do have to top myself by coming up with not just these brutally violent variations, but ones that make sense in the context and in the moment. For example, if they are outside as opposed to being in a kitchen then you cant have any kitchen utensils. If theyre outside they have to use whatever would be lying around, that kind of thing. And if Mark says Were going to do this in the middle of Times Square then theyre less likely to have knives, except for Hit Girl, who would bring her machetes. So, I wait until the scene dictates how the violence will progress, or at least I try. The problem is that Mark will come up with a scene where he says She should kill him with a bat to the back of the head and now its in the back of my mind that thats what he wants, and how do I go do that? I have to vary from what he has suggested and what Ive done before. However, the good thing is that at least I have something to go by and something to differ from. So, Ive actually helped myself in a certain way.
RS: Where do limits figure in, with an ultra-violent series like this? Im sure Marvel has limits in terms of what they want their name on. What about you?
JRJ: We pretty much own the project, with Marvel just distributing it. And so, no, there is no limit. Quote-unquote, there is no limit. There might be a tastefulness limit, I mean were not going to do pornography. Weve done some slight sexual content, but I dont think I would ever allow it to be taken too far. I would never do that. However, there will be some naked ladies. There will be some naked butts and there will be some naked men, but there wont be anything that I would be ashamed of. I do have my limits.
RS: I hear rumors about a new character called Mother Fucker. Does that mean anything to you?
JRJ: [laughs] It does mean something, thats a character! Look, Mark knows what he wants and the names have to be outrageous and different, and thats what were intending to do. I think the big difference between this and the first one is that there are more Kick-Asses than there were before. There are more costumed people, and some of these people are taking themselves seriously thats the difference between the two stories. Whereas it was a novelty in the beginning, its become less so now. And yes, theres a character called Mother Fucker. Mark wants the outrage factor and the shock value involved, and thats cool. Now I have to follow up with equally powerful costumes and visuals.
RS: Youre sort of straddling two worlds at the moment. Have you fallen in love with the movie business yet?
JRJ: I havent fallen in love with the business per se, but I was always in love with cinema. Getting involved in the business is something Im guarded about. I had this project and now there is interest in other projects. Should I be able to do it a couple of times and then people start coming to me, then wonderful, but Ive gotten one great quality from my father and that is being grounded. My feet are on the ground. Im a cartoonist who happens to be very lucky to be in this position. If it progresses and it allows me to do something that Ive always fantasized about, which is to direct a film, then so be it. But Im not going to get too far ahead of myself, if you know what I mean. Now, having said all of that, yes, I would give anything to be further involved in films from here on in because Ive always been fascinated by the process.
RS: Where do you think we are in terms of superhero movies and the public? Are people getting bored with it? Is Marvel thinking about that?
JRJ: Knowing the people who are involved in that whole spiel, I know that theyve anticipated that people can get tired of a genre. The trick is to be ahead of that curve. Marvel has always been able to come up with good stories, regardless of the premise. If you have a costumed character, you anticipate that there are going to be some people who are wary of that, rolling their eyes. The trick is to just come up with a good story, and Marvel does that. Look, Iron Man was one that no one expected to blow up into what it became. But Tony Starks story is a quality story, and in no small part thanks to Robert Downey, Jr. Iron Man was never considered to be a Spider-Man-level, A-list character, but if you have good stories you have a good quality product, and thats all there is to it.
RS: Its funny that the most popular superheroes tend to be 40 to 70 year-old properties. Why do you think that is?
JRJ: Because its like coming up with a new melody for a song. To me, that seems nearly impossible. To come up with something thats new and different has got to be so difficult, and Im amazed whenever one does appear. And perhaps its because there are already so many different characters and so many different ideas that are already out there. Its really almost impossible to come up with something new. Thats why Mark Millar is a genius and Brian Bendis is a genius these writers are geniuses. To be able to come up with a new idea on your own is amazing.
RS: A lot of people are excited about your new run on The Avengers, alongside Brian. Are you able to say anything about forthcoming stuff?
JRJ: Just to expect the unexpected. I cant get into details, except to say that this has it all. You have no idea how much can be put into a 23-page story until youve seen what Brian is asking for and what were delivering. I can say that the artwork is amazing because of Klaus Jansen and Dean White. And again I can say without hyperbole that Brian is really a genius, cause thats just the way it is.
RS: Would you like to be involved in The Avengers movie on some level?
JRJ: Sure! Id love to. If they call me, Im ready. If they need me for something, whatever they need me to do, Ill do it.
RS: Even though they are creator-owned, could the Kick-Ass characters ever be incorporated into the larger Marvel universe and interact with Marvel characters?
JRJ: I doubt it. I dont know that Marvel would allow it because of the legalities of it, since Mark and I own it. The people that own Marvel prefer to only use their own stock of characters, so, on the mundane, legal scale, no. And I also doubt that it could ever fit.
RS: Do you see any drawbacks in general to doing creator-owned stuff, as opposed to working inside the big tent?
JRJ: I dont see drawbacks in it; it really frees up the mind to come up with your own stories. However, one problem is falling in love with what you do, as opposed to seeing it in an unbiased way. You tend to think that whatever you have is quality, and you have to be able to stand back from it. If you have a creator-owned project, the writers and artists might consider it a quality story, but you have to be both subjective and objective about it. So, yeah, there are difficulties in creator-owned, its not easy. But I do embrace it because it frees up the genius of the creators, even though there is a danger that young creators can sometimes fall in love with what they think is a quality project.
RS: Kick-Ass is, of course, a take-off on the notion of real people putting on costumes and fighting crime. What do you think about the real-real world people who do that?
JRJ: Well, remember that before the costume craze there were, for years, patrols by people like the Guardian Angels in New York. There have always been neighborhood patrols, and now people are just putting on costumes. And I think the muggers and the burglars should be nervous. These people are not your everyday, average accountant. Ive met a whole slew of martial artists who are now putting on costumes. I think if you have a flashlight and a mask on and youre trying to break in through somebodys back door, Id watch your ass. There really are a lot of them out there now, and they will bust you up!
RS: If you had billions to spare, do you think you might become a superhero yourself?
JRJ: [laughs] Interestingly enough, Ive considered that. If I was that rich? Yes. I would find a way to do it, I really would.
RS: What would your name be?
JRJ: I dont know if Id even come up with a name, Id just want to be very quiet about it. I guess Id be the man with no name. Id be like Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter, just fading in and out, and nobody would ever know me. Id just be very quiet. Wait, how about that: The Quiet Man.
RS: I like it.
Kick-Ass is available this week on DVD and Blu-ray.