So not that long ago I had an argument of sorts with one of the so-called True Goths from the eighties. He wasn't really the nicest person in the world, though everyone else on this particular site liked him a lot. Probably because they all thought alike. Anyways, he made all these laims about how the Goth community isn't about haunted type stuff or any kind of horror-related theme. Instead,it's really about rebelling from the norm (duh!) and embracing politics (!). He went on to basicaly call me a moron and anyone who even thought Goth scene was about dakr things is a stupid misguided fool.
Now I looked into this whole "Goth scene" thing a while ago, and I honestly have to say that this guy was right in some ways. As far as music goes, The Cure Sisters of Mercy, Joy Division and most of the others really didn't have anything the least bit spooky or haunting about them. More like depressing. And even the Sisters of Mercy had many songs that were politically based. Of course, the Sisters and The Cure never liked being called Gothic in the first place, and maybe everyone should have listened to them and changed the defintion of the scene in the first place.
So what I want to know is why does everyone associate haunted themes and stuff like vampires, graveyards and dark castles with the Goth scene if the scene really has nothing to do with that stuff in the first place? If the original bands never had that sort of imagery in the music presentation then exactly where does the connection come from?
I've done my homework on this. The legend goes that Joy Divisions manager called the band "gothic compared to what was mainstream" at the time. Thats supposedly how it all got started. But I once read an article from 1972 about how Black Sabbath had a major influence on music that could be considered Gothic in the modern meaing of the word. And I think they fit my definition of Goth a bit more than Joy Division. I will try to find that article later tonight and post it.
Yeah, I know all about how the Goth scene came out of the Punk movement, and was characterized by atmospheric music and depressive lyrics. A study of what the word Goth originally meant will bring us down a long road. Most everyone knows about the barbarian Goths and the style of architecture known as Gothic. The buildings done in the Gothic style (which is one of my favorite styles by the way) were described as having an "ugly beauty", which is where the connection with the later use of the word comes in. The literature known as Gothic has dark settings, such as old castles and graveyards, as well as supernatural or bizzare, mysterious happneings. Again, it has that sort of dark attractiveness to it.
But when we get to the whats considered Gothic music, we come upon a use of the word which, I personally just can't understand. The Cure, despite their claims to the contrary, are still considered by and large one of the pivotal bands in the Gothic movement. But exactly how are they considered Gothic if their music really has no "dark beauty" to it. Sure, they had quite a few moments of dark themes in their songs, but it doesn't connect with the whole haunting/vampire/old castle theme I mentioned earlier. Neither does Joy Division, and neither does The Mission UK, or Sisters of Mercy, or Christian Death (who, in all fairness, had touches of Gothic themes, but ruined it with poor musicianship and bad singing). No vampires, no graveyards, nothing.
But I think now that the real problem here is that I have a different idea of what the Gothic scene should be, and so does my "friend" that I had the argument with. Maybe the Goth scene doesn't really exist, at least not coherently. I persoanlly have another set of bands that I consider Gothic. And yes, most of them are Metal bands. Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate/King Diamond, Cradle of Filth, Tristania, Danzig, Samhain, Type O Negative, Sirenia, Gothminister, My Dying Bride, The Vision Bleak...the list goes on.
And for non-metal Goth bands, theres the great NOX ARCANA, one of my personal favorites. I urge everyone to check them out if your interested in spooky music.
http://www.noxarcana.com/
And I know I am risking my popularity by saying this. I have lost friends over voicing my feelings before on this stuff, but I would rather not remain silent.
Now I looked into this whole "Goth scene" thing a while ago, and I honestly have to say that this guy was right in some ways. As far as music goes, The Cure Sisters of Mercy, Joy Division and most of the others really didn't have anything the least bit spooky or haunting about them. More like depressing. And even the Sisters of Mercy had many songs that were politically based. Of course, the Sisters and The Cure never liked being called Gothic in the first place, and maybe everyone should have listened to them and changed the defintion of the scene in the first place.
So what I want to know is why does everyone associate haunted themes and stuff like vampires, graveyards and dark castles with the Goth scene if the scene really has nothing to do with that stuff in the first place? If the original bands never had that sort of imagery in the music presentation then exactly where does the connection come from?
I've done my homework on this. The legend goes that Joy Divisions manager called the band "gothic compared to what was mainstream" at the time. Thats supposedly how it all got started. But I once read an article from 1972 about how Black Sabbath had a major influence on music that could be considered Gothic in the modern meaing of the word. And I think they fit my definition of Goth a bit more than Joy Division. I will try to find that article later tonight and post it.
Yeah, I know all about how the Goth scene came out of the Punk movement, and was characterized by atmospheric music and depressive lyrics. A study of what the word Goth originally meant will bring us down a long road. Most everyone knows about the barbarian Goths and the style of architecture known as Gothic. The buildings done in the Gothic style (which is one of my favorite styles by the way) were described as having an "ugly beauty", which is where the connection with the later use of the word comes in. The literature known as Gothic has dark settings, such as old castles and graveyards, as well as supernatural or bizzare, mysterious happneings. Again, it has that sort of dark attractiveness to it.
But when we get to the whats considered Gothic music, we come upon a use of the word which, I personally just can't understand. The Cure, despite their claims to the contrary, are still considered by and large one of the pivotal bands in the Gothic movement. But exactly how are they considered Gothic if their music really has no "dark beauty" to it. Sure, they had quite a few moments of dark themes in their songs, but it doesn't connect with the whole haunting/vampire/old castle theme I mentioned earlier. Neither does Joy Division, and neither does The Mission UK, or Sisters of Mercy, or Christian Death (who, in all fairness, had touches of Gothic themes, but ruined it with poor musicianship and bad singing). No vampires, no graveyards, nothing.
But I think now that the real problem here is that I have a different idea of what the Gothic scene should be, and so does my "friend" that I had the argument with. Maybe the Goth scene doesn't really exist, at least not coherently. I persoanlly have another set of bands that I consider Gothic. And yes, most of them are Metal bands. Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate/King Diamond, Cradle of Filth, Tristania, Danzig, Samhain, Type O Negative, Sirenia, Gothminister, My Dying Bride, The Vision Bleak...the list goes on.
And for non-metal Goth bands, theres the great NOX ARCANA, one of my personal favorites. I urge everyone to check them out if your interested in spooky music.
http://www.noxarcana.com/
And I know I am risking my popularity by saying this. I have lost friends over voicing my feelings before on this stuff, but I would rather not remain silent.
Come and give a speech to them and maybe they'll get a fucking job haha.
and i usually only go to maryland once a year for death fest..... i hate maryland hahaha sorry