Harry Shearer's new film Teddy Bear's Picnic takes place in a fictional version of Bohemian Groove which is a secluded campground in California's Sonoma County, is the site of an annual two-week gathering of a highly select, all-male club, whose members have included every Republican president since Calvin Coolidge. Current participants include George Bush, Henry Kissinger, James Baker and David Rockefeller -- a virtual who's who of the most powerful men in business and government.
Well Teddy Bear's Picnic contains a veritable who's who as well of comedy George Wendt, Fred Willard, Michael McKean, Henry Gibson and Howard Hesseman. Harry Shearer is still running with the big boys in terms of comedy, he is in Christopher Guest's next improvised film and just came off a yearlong tour with Spinal Tap.
Even though The Simpsons may end soon, Shearer's voice can still be heard every week on his syndicated radio show, Le Show. The only thing I didn't like is that he refused to find me work on a sex farm.
Dan Epstein: You ready?
Harry Shearer: Born ready baby.
DE: You just directed your first narrative feature film, Teddy Bear's Picnic. Why did it take you so long to direct a feature film?
HS: Well I directed a few feature length things for HBO in the late eighties.
DE: The Martin Mull one [The History of White People in America Volumes 1 and 2].
HS: And one with Paul Schafer. I wrote things that took a while to produced and time got wasted trying to get them produced in Hollywood. I didn't have a lot of independent film connections. It really took until the digital film revolution came along that I realized that I could do it myself.
DE: Doesn't your frequent collaborator Christopher Guest [Nigel Tufnel of Spinal and director of Waiting for Guffman and Best in Show] do independent films?
HS: No, Christopher works for Castle Rock [Rob Reiner's production company].
DE: Why didn't the studio who released This is Spinal Tap fund the film, for instance?
HS: Well they don't exist anymore. That was Embassy Pictures, they went bankrupt shortly after This is Spinal Tap came out. Norman Lear and Jerry Perenchio [co-founders of Embassy Communications] are no longer in the movie business. So the people who helped put out This is Spinal Tap aren't around to help me out anymore.
DE: I know Teddy Bear's Picnic is based somewhat on Bohemian Grove, were you worried that all the ex-presidents that are members might come crushing down on you?
HS: Well half worried and half hoping. When you're marketing your own film you get into this weird ruthless state of mind where its like "Yeah I hope I get attacked, its good for the box-office."
DE: What was it like interviewing ex-members and the prostitutes that worked there?
HS: Well it was fascinating. This was a world that was foreign to me and I far prefer to find out what really goes on rather than just sit around making it up. It was amazing to learn that when guys reach this pinnacle of power and wealth that this is their chosen way of relaxing as opposed to sailing or scuba diving. They prefer to hang out with each other, get stinking drunk and walk around naked peeing on redwood trees.
The prostitute that I remember most, the one I based the prostitute character on [played by Annabelle Gurwitch of TBS Superstation's DINNER & A MOVIE] said to me that the interesting thing about these guys is that the vast majority of them just want to sit and talk.
DE: Awww.
HS: Awww. Exactly [laughs].
DE: Was there a lot of improvisation?
HS: In the film?
DE: Yes.
HS: Because in life there is. No there wasn't in the film. That's Chris's style and I didn't want to mess with that. Also economically we didn't have the shooting or editing schedule that allowed for that. The shooting was only 18 days long. The subject matter of this film didn't lend itself to the mockumentary format. The idea of this film is guys trying to preserve a secret from exposure in the media. So the mockumentary approach seemed to be at odds with that. Who'd be shooting this? Who's point of view would we be seeing, who would they let in to shoot it? So for all those reasons it wouldn't work.
DE: So with such a tight schedule what was the set like?
HS: Oh they were having a great time. It was me that wasn't doing a lot of joking around. We weren't paying them a lot of money so I wanted to make the situation as enjoyable as possible. I hope they were having a good time when they hit the set. The other thing is since we doing it digitally, if there was a great take the cameraman won't bust it in the middle for a reload. We tried to minimize the waiting around though you can't get rid of it completely. I'm of the school that believes good comedy comes from people who are having a good time.
DE: Well you do have some of the greatest comedians ever in the movie.
HS: Unbelievably good cast. My favorite thing that happened is what happened between Kenny Mars [Young Frankenstein and The Producers] and Bob Einstein [Super Dave Osborne]. I knew Kenny a little from Fernwood 2Nite [television series that ran from 1977-1978 hosted by Martin Mull and Fred Willard]. Their characters were father and son in the movie and hated each other but they were just going at each other. Maybe they were just playing around with that relationship or maybe they really didn't like each other. I couldn't tell. They were sniping at each other every time they were together.
Bob would say, [Shearer doing perfect Super Dave impression] "Are you going to just let him spit in every take of every scene he does, you're not going to use all that." Then he would say the same to Kenny. Then Kenny would just give him this blood-curdling look that seemed to say, when you decide to start acting just let me know. It was one the situations where I thought, should I get in the middle of this, nah. Whatever it is, it seems to be working.
DE: There is a lot of racist humor in Teddy Bear's Picnic, are you worried about any repercussions from that?
HS: It's not racist humor, its humor about racism. Racist humor is if the
filmmaker has the attitude. I'm making fun of that attitude. I didn't put it in to do anything but depict that group of people. This is a group of white mainly WASP and catholic guys. They are in some sense cutting themselves off from the multi gender, multi ethnic world even hiding from it in a place, which makes it safe to do that sort of thing. I thought that was important to include things like that because that is one of the reasons why don't allow women and many other things so they could go there and do things like that.
DE: Was Alan Thicke playing himself, a joke?
HS: Alan knows that I've had some fun at his expense. Bohemian Grove does have a smattering of show business people in it. So Alan, Dick Butkus and Peter Marshall [host of The Hollywood Squares from 1966-1982] were sort of representative of that membership. As a matter of fact George Wendt has been to the real one. So Alan was aware of the role he was playing.
DE: So is The Simpsons feature film going to happen, I heard possibly in 2005?
HS: There's a deal for one, the contract is in place. Intentions are hardening.
DE: Will the show end at that time?
HS: Well right now there is a deal for another year right after this year. After that there would have to be another negotiation. If FOX finds another show that they could put on then, who knows? For instance when The Chamber premiered in The Simpsons timeslot it did well. When the second episode flowed The Simpsons it did well. When it moved to Friday night it disappeared, when they find another show that can do what The Simpsons does, they will be delighted to do cancel The Simpsons. I'm sure they're avid in trying to find one but they haven't.
DE: You're doing another film with Christopher Guest; it is going to be the one about the folk singers. Are your other alter egos, The Folksmen the band that opens for Spinal Tap, going to be the focus?
HS: They'll be in it, along with several other groups who are being made up as we speak. Its an improvisational movie as well so we're all involved with it, Michael [McKean], me, Christopher, Eugene Levy and Michael's wife Annette O'Toole have all been busy writing songs for the movie.
DE: How, when and where did you first meet Michael McKean and Christopher Guest?
HS: Michael came to join a comedy group I was with that was doing radio shows in Los Angeles in the early 1970's. David L. Lander who was later to become Squiggy on Laverne and Shirley was always saying, [In perfect Squiggy voice] "I got this friend McKean, you'd love him youve got to meet McKean." The first six months I knew him I didn't even know he had a first name. Michael had been doing music in New York and David had convinced him to come out to the West Coast and he joined our radio show. So the first time I met was the first time he came into work.
How I met Christopher was that I was in New York and I was hanging around. Chris was doing the National Lampoon and he was an old pal of Michael's and I think Michael connected me with him. Then when I was producing a pilot with Rob Reiner in the late 70's, Christopher and his then partner Tom Leopold [who later went on to write for the television series Seinfeld and executive produce Madigan Men] had done a couple of shows I really loved. I hired them for that program so that's the first time I worked with him.
DE: So it's not like you grew up with them.
HS: No but its not like actually grew up either.
DE: What it's like having an action figure of yourself?
HS: Well I have three action figures. Well more because of the variations on Mr. Burns. Plus Chris, Michael and I were voices for characters in Small Soldiers [Shearer played the character of Punch-It]. And then of course there is the Derek Smalls action figure.
DE: Do you have them all fight each other?
HS: Yeah but only at night when Im not around.
DE: Like in Small Soldiers.
HS: Right. [laughs]
DE: Your political humor radio show, Le Show is now in its nineteenth year. So what's your opinion on GW Bush?
HS: He's a work in progress. Democrats always like to brag that their guys are smarter than the opponents and Republicans always like to brag that their guys are more moral than the opponents. But if you're looking for morals in politics you're looking for bananas in the cheese department. The last president we had was the smartest guy anyone could remember and he did the dumbest thing anyone has ever seen in the White House so go figure.
Bush is a frat boy in the White House but weve had that before. But I wasn't one of those people that was threatening to leave the country. By the way none of those people have left the country. Alec Baldwin is still here.
DE: Within two weeks of the terrorist attacks of 9/11 you were back on the air lampooning Bush, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Vice President Dick Cheney, you lost some key stations, do you regret that at all?
HS: I lost one station in Washington DC and a few stations pre-empted for a couple of weeks.
DE: What did you think of that?
HS: Well Washington DC what are you going to do. They think the capitol steps are the state of the art in comedy. You try to drag them into the 20th century let alone the 21st and they refuse to come with you. Bill Maher had gotten into trouble at the time for using the word coward in an interesting context. So when I went on the air I said "if you want to talk about cowards." Then I mentioned the stations that had been pre-empting me. That sore of helped spur them back into the fold. I do what I do. One would like to think that public radio is a place where you can do it without thinking "ooh, we're going to piss off Sears."
DE: How does Rupert Murdoch [CEO of the FOX Network] respond at those big parties when you make fun of him?
HS: I don't go to the big parties. That's how I protect myself.
DE: You were Eddie Haskell in the TV pilot of Leave It to Beaver. What happened?
HS: My parents didn't want me to be a regular in a series. I was a working actor from time to time but they thought was a little too much being a star of a series. They wanted me to have a slightly more normal childhood.
DE: In the big SNL book [Saturday Night : A Backstage History of Saturday Night Live by Doug Hill, Jeff Weingrad] you're described but I've always heard you did you're work?
HS: That's how you make trouble there. You show up on time, you do your work and say "how come it didn't get on the air?" That's trouble.
DE: So your time there was unhappy?
HS: Well I was there for one full season [1979-1980] then I went back for half a season [in 1984]. Yeah it was definitely unhappy but most of the people who work there, whether they're on the air or off, will tell you pretty much the same story. It's amazing. I've been pretty public about my feelings about the show and I'm amazed when people on the show come up to me and start venting and unloading about their time on the show. It's pretty consistent.
DE: So what's it like touring with Spinal Tap now? I saw you at the Beacon Theatre last year.
HS: Its great fun. We probably won't be doing much more of that, we've gotten one offer this which I think we are going to find irresistible which is performing with the Honolulu Philharmonic. But I think we've pretty much done it. We've played Carnegie Hall, The Greek Theatre, Royal Albert Hall and Wembley Stadium. Pretty much everything we ever wanted to do as a live act we've done and we've been really lucky we haven't had to repeat ourselves very much.
DE: Maybe The Folksmen will go on tour by themselves?
HS: We would love to. That would be great fun. We can actually hear each other when we do that act as opposed to Spinal Tap where its like "I know you're there, I know you're playing and I'm assuming you're playing what I'm playing."
DE: Last thing, could you do a little Mr. Burns for me?
HS: [in Mr. Burns voice] Oh you'd love that wouldn't you, but you can't afford me.
DE: Thank you so much.
Check out Harry Shearer's website at harryshearer.com, and Spinal Tap's website is spinaltap.com.
Well Teddy Bear's Picnic contains a veritable who's who as well of comedy George Wendt, Fred Willard, Michael McKean, Henry Gibson and Howard Hesseman. Harry Shearer is still running with the big boys in terms of comedy, he is in Christopher Guest's next improvised film and just came off a yearlong tour with Spinal Tap.
Even though The Simpsons may end soon, Shearer's voice can still be heard every week on his syndicated radio show, Le Show. The only thing I didn't like is that he refused to find me work on a sex farm.
Dan Epstein: You ready?
Harry Shearer: Born ready baby.
DE: You just directed your first narrative feature film, Teddy Bear's Picnic. Why did it take you so long to direct a feature film?
HS: Well I directed a few feature length things for HBO in the late eighties.
DE: The Martin Mull one [The History of White People in America Volumes 1 and 2].
HS: And one with Paul Schafer. I wrote things that took a while to produced and time got wasted trying to get them produced in Hollywood. I didn't have a lot of independent film connections. It really took until the digital film revolution came along that I realized that I could do it myself.
DE: Doesn't your frequent collaborator Christopher Guest [Nigel Tufnel of Spinal and director of Waiting for Guffman and Best in Show] do independent films?
HS: No, Christopher works for Castle Rock [Rob Reiner's production company].
DE: Why didn't the studio who released This is Spinal Tap fund the film, for instance?
HS: Well they don't exist anymore. That was Embassy Pictures, they went bankrupt shortly after This is Spinal Tap came out. Norman Lear and Jerry Perenchio [co-founders of Embassy Communications] are no longer in the movie business. So the people who helped put out This is Spinal Tap aren't around to help me out anymore.
DE: I know Teddy Bear's Picnic is based somewhat on Bohemian Grove, were you worried that all the ex-presidents that are members might come crushing down on you?
HS: Well half worried and half hoping. When you're marketing your own film you get into this weird ruthless state of mind where its like "Yeah I hope I get attacked, its good for the box-office."
DE: What was it like interviewing ex-members and the prostitutes that worked there?
HS: Well it was fascinating. This was a world that was foreign to me and I far prefer to find out what really goes on rather than just sit around making it up. It was amazing to learn that when guys reach this pinnacle of power and wealth that this is their chosen way of relaxing as opposed to sailing or scuba diving. They prefer to hang out with each other, get stinking drunk and walk around naked peeing on redwood trees.
The prostitute that I remember most, the one I based the prostitute character on [played by Annabelle Gurwitch of TBS Superstation's DINNER & A MOVIE] said to me that the interesting thing about these guys is that the vast majority of them just want to sit and talk.
DE: Awww.
HS: Awww. Exactly [laughs].
DE: Was there a lot of improvisation?
HS: In the film?
DE: Yes.
HS: Because in life there is. No there wasn't in the film. That's Chris's style and I didn't want to mess with that. Also economically we didn't have the shooting or editing schedule that allowed for that. The shooting was only 18 days long. The subject matter of this film didn't lend itself to the mockumentary format. The idea of this film is guys trying to preserve a secret from exposure in the media. So the mockumentary approach seemed to be at odds with that. Who'd be shooting this? Who's point of view would we be seeing, who would they let in to shoot it? So for all those reasons it wouldn't work.
DE: So with such a tight schedule what was the set like?
HS: Oh they were having a great time. It was me that wasn't doing a lot of joking around. We weren't paying them a lot of money so I wanted to make the situation as enjoyable as possible. I hope they were having a good time when they hit the set. The other thing is since we doing it digitally, if there was a great take the cameraman won't bust it in the middle for a reload. We tried to minimize the waiting around though you can't get rid of it completely. I'm of the school that believes good comedy comes from people who are having a good time.
DE: Well you do have some of the greatest comedians ever in the movie.
HS: Unbelievably good cast. My favorite thing that happened is what happened between Kenny Mars [Young Frankenstein and The Producers] and Bob Einstein [Super Dave Osborne]. I knew Kenny a little from Fernwood 2Nite [television series that ran from 1977-1978 hosted by Martin Mull and Fred Willard]. Their characters were father and son in the movie and hated each other but they were just going at each other. Maybe they were just playing around with that relationship or maybe they really didn't like each other. I couldn't tell. They were sniping at each other every time they were together.
Bob would say, [Shearer doing perfect Super Dave impression] "Are you going to just let him spit in every take of every scene he does, you're not going to use all that." Then he would say the same to Kenny. Then Kenny would just give him this blood-curdling look that seemed to say, when you decide to start acting just let me know. It was one the situations where I thought, should I get in the middle of this, nah. Whatever it is, it seems to be working.
DE: There is a lot of racist humor in Teddy Bear's Picnic, are you worried about any repercussions from that?
HS: It's not racist humor, its humor about racism. Racist humor is if the
filmmaker has the attitude. I'm making fun of that attitude. I didn't put it in to do anything but depict that group of people. This is a group of white mainly WASP and catholic guys. They are in some sense cutting themselves off from the multi gender, multi ethnic world even hiding from it in a place, which makes it safe to do that sort of thing. I thought that was important to include things like that because that is one of the reasons why don't allow women and many other things so they could go there and do things like that.
DE: Was Alan Thicke playing himself, a joke?
HS: Alan knows that I've had some fun at his expense. Bohemian Grove does have a smattering of show business people in it. So Alan, Dick Butkus and Peter Marshall [host of The Hollywood Squares from 1966-1982] were sort of representative of that membership. As a matter of fact George Wendt has been to the real one. So Alan was aware of the role he was playing.
DE: So is The Simpsons feature film going to happen, I heard possibly in 2005?
HS: There's a deal for one, the contract is in place. Intentions are hardening.
DE: Will the show end at that time?
HS: Well right now there is a deal for another year right after this year. After that there would have to be another negotiation. If FOX finds another show that they could put on then, who knows? For instance when The Chamber premiered in The Simpsons timeslot it did well. When the second episode flowed The Simpsons it did well. When it moved to Friday night it disappeared, when they find another show that can do what The Simpsons does, they will be delighted to do cancel The Simpsons. I'm sure they're avid in trying to find one but they haven't.
DE: You're doing another film with Christopher Guest; it is going to be the one about the folk singers. Are your other alter egos, The Folksmen the band that opens for Spinal Tap, going to be the focus?
HS: They'll be in it, along with several other groups who are being made up as we speak. Its an improvisational movie as well so we're all involved with it, Michael [McKean], me, Christopher, Eugene Levy and Michael's wife Annette O'Toole have all been busy writing songs for the movie.
DE: How, when and where did you first meet Michael McKean and Christopher Guest?
HS: Michael came to join a comedy group I was with that was doing radio shows in Los Angeles in the early 1970's. David L. Lander who was later to become Squiggy on Laverne and Shirley was always saying, [In perfect Squiggy voice] "I got this friend McKean, you'd love him youve got to meet McKean." The first six months I knew him I didn't even know he had a first name. Michael had been doing music in New York and David had convinced him to come out to the West Coast and he joined our radio show. So the first time I met was the first time he came into work.
How I met Christopher was that I was in New York and I was hanging around. Chris was doing the National Lampoon and he was an old pal of Michael's and I think Michael connected me with him. Then when I was producing a pilot with Rob Reiner in the late 70's, Christopher and his then partner Tom Leopold [who later went on to write for the television series Seinfeld and executive produce Madigan Men] had done a couple of shows I really loved. I hired them for that program so that's the first time I worked with him.
DE: So it's not like you grew up with them.
HS: No but its not like actually grew up either.
DE: What it's like having an action figure of yourself?
HS: Well I have three action figures. Well more because of the variations on Mr. Burns. Plus Chris, Michael and I were voices for characters in Small Soldiers [Shearer played the character of Punch-It]. And then of course there is the Derek Smalls action figure.
DE: Do you have them all fight each other?
HS: Yeah but only at night when Im not around.
DE: Like in Small Soldiers.
HS: Right. [laughs]
DE: Your political humor radio show, Le Show is now in its nineteenth year. So what's your opinion on GW Bush?
HS: He's a work in progress. Democrats always like to brag that their guys are smarter than the opponents and Republicans always like to brag that their guys are more moral than the opponents. But if you're looking for morals in politics you're looking for bananas in the cheese department. The last president we had was the smartest guy anyone could remember and he did the dumbest thing anyone has ever seen in the White House so go figure.
Bush is a frat boy in the White House but weve had that before. But I wasn't one of those people that was threatening to leave the country. By the way none of those people have left the country. Alec Baldwin is still here.
DE: Within two weeks of the terrorist attacks of 9/11 you were back on the air lampooning Bush, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Vice President Dick Cheney, you lost some key stations, do you regret that at all?
HS: I lost one station in Washington DC and a few stations pre-empted for a couple of weeks.
DE: What did you think of that?
HS: Well Washington DC what are you going to do. They think the capitol steps are the state of the art in comedy. You try to drag them into the 20th century let alone the 21st and they refuse to come with you. Bill Maher had gotten into trouble at the time for using the word coward in an interesting context. So when I went on the air I said "if you want to talk about cowards." Then I mentioned the stations that had been pre-empting me. That sore of helped spur them back into the fold. I do what I do. One would like to think that public radio is a place where you can do it without thinking "ooh, we're going to piss off Sears."
DE: How does Rupert Murdoch [CEO of the FOX Network] respond at those big parties when you make fun of him?
HS: I don't go to the big parties. That's how I protect myself.
DE: You were Eddie Haskell in the TV pilot of Leave It to Beaver. What happened?
HS: My parents didn't want me to be a regular in a series. I was a working actor from time to time but they thought was a little too much being a star of a series. They wanted me to have a slightly more normal childhood.
DE: In the big SNL book [Saturday Night : A Backstage History of Saturday Night Live by Doug Hill, Jeff Weingrad] you're described but I've always heard you did you're work?
HS: That's how you make trouble there. You show up on time, you do your work and say "how come it didn't get on the air?" That's trouble.
DE: So your time there was unhappy?
HS: Well I was there for one full season [1979-1980] then I went back for half a season [in 1984]. Yeah it was definitely unhappy but most of the people who work there, whether they're on the air or off, will tell you pretty much the same story. It's amazing. I've been pretty public about my feelings about the show and I'm amazed when people on the show come up to me and start venting and unloading about their time on the show. It's pretty consistent.
DE: So what's it like touring with Spinal Tap now? I saw you at the Beacon Theatre last year.
HS: Its great fun. We probably won't be doing much more of that, we've gotten one offer this which I think we are going to find irresistible which is performing with the Honolulu Philharmonic. But I think we've pretty much done it. We've played Carnegie Hall, The Greek Theatre, Royal Albert Hall and Wembley Stadium. Pretty much everything we ever wanted to do as a live act we've done and we've been really lucky we haven't had to repeat ourselves very much.
DE: Maybe The Folksmen will go on tour by themselves?
HS: We would love to. That would be great fun. We can actually hear each other when we do that act as opposed to Spinal Tap where its like "I know you're there, I know you're playing and I'm assuming you're playing what I'm playing."
DE: Last thing, could you do a little Mr. Burns for me?
HS: [in Mr. Burns voice] Oh you'd love that wouldn't you, but you can't afford me.
DE: Thank you so much.
Check out Harry Shearer's website at harryshearer.com, and Spinal Tap's website is spinaltap.com.