mathmaddicts

Cool clock

I can't see the clock...

And hey, WTF? How come my law group gets stuffed and Catcher there gets a Liberal Politics group?

But what I came here to say was... wouldn't it be foolish of me to try to provide a highly refined and foolproof definition of chaos?

not read the comic yet. will do though.

I think you've actually hit on a great difficulty in trying to do anything like teach ethics to someone - or teach, for that matter.

You're right, if autonomy is the highest moral value (I don't think that it is, incidentally, it just seemed to be the one most germane to your situation), then there is an air of paradox about trying to *tell* someone to be moral.

The best I can do is say, yeah, there are times when the moral thing to do is going to have to be to refuse to give advice and let someone figure things out on their own. But not all forms of persuasion are autonomy-destroying, I don't think. The question, I'd say, in terms of moral advice is similar to the crux of the opinion I had on your situation - you need to carefully assess the situation and see if the person you'd be influencing is coming from a strong enough point in terms of her own rational capacities and self-possession that there isn't a coercive element to your attempt at persuasion. But this is, unfortunately, an ineliminably 'fuzzy' decision, a judgment call.

Does that make any sense?

(Oh, and BTW - I didn't mean to sound preachy in my answer - you'd asked for input, and I just tried to give it my most considered shot).

at least you have SG...

damn, sounds familiar!!

Hell yeah

Well, I'm not sure if I have an overwhelmingly good answer to that question. Frankly, I initially came to this site merely for the aesthetics - I'm attracted to women who fall generally in the demographic represented in the pics here, and they're hard to find elsewhere.

I *do* think that the site is about as non-exploitative as a cash-for-photos sort of pornographic website is going to be. We are all, to some extent, treating each other as means rather than ends here. But, the presence of the women in other contexts than their photos lets me find my comfort level in terms of feeling that I'm not actively compromising anyone's autonomy by being here. There are a couple of women on here whose photos I *don't* look at precisely because I think the lack of self-assurance they show indicates that they did not make a choice in appearing here that I can endorse.

Part of this could become a long discussion about the nature of exploitation (and has, in the feminists group). As something of a left-libertarian, I hesitate to condemn people's choices as long as they seem to meet certain relatively minimal standards of empowerment, and so I don't think I've violated my moral obligations if I go ahead and benefit from that choice.

I didn't come in expecting this site to be a public service, and so I'm not disappointed that it's not. It's a business that provides me with products I desire - photos, interesting people to waste my time by chatting with, etc. - at a price I find worth it, and without (as far as I can see) committing any gross moral violations in the process. Mind you, were I to encounter credible evidence that some of the shady dealings with models Shawn et al are rumored to have were true, I'd have to revise that last clause and leave.

I'm not sure what's causing you to question Missy's skill as a photographer, in particular. Honestly, I'm not much of a photography buff, and so don't usually even pay that much attention to who has shot the sets (though I am impressed with lithium_picnic's work with Apnea, in my untrained eye sort of way).

*shrug*

I'll check it out. Are you still up for what I emailed you about?

hey man, i started to respond to your thread but i knew i would just keep going and going and i just didn't feel like getting into it with such closeminded people. i couldn't really care less if there are boys on this site, but i DO care when people get shut down with stupid ass responses.... so.... heres what i started before i just said "fuck it...why bother"
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once again i see rampant close-mindedness on a site claiming to be "alternative" and "open-minded".

don't get me wrong... i have no desire to look at naked men, but to just shut mathmaddicts down like he just started some crude "lets see more cunt" thread or something (and i have seen plenty more awfull threads too) is out of line. for as well and as honestly as he put it into words, i think at LEAST he could have been given the same in return, especially from the staff. instead he got:

if it was all about money, why does this site cost a year what most cost a month?
and why does it use so much space (which ='s money) for private groups, public pics, group photosets, etc.?
Plus, SG would cater more to the mainstream like Playboy; take a look at Playboy's boards, they are freaking out about the SG feature on their site, they (for the most part) HATE us!
also, why 'zot' members if you are out just for money?... the "respect" enforcment alone will tell you there is more to it that just money.
"go start your own site!" kind of has a "go back where you came from" ring to it, at the very least it smacks of "thanks for the suggestion....now get out."

really? how? i see people being disrespectfull to HIM, not Missy or her vision.
and NO there really isn't a site (as good are as extensive as this one) that features emo, punk, goth, alterna' boys, and if there is i can almost guarentee it is aimed at gay men, not everyone - like this site (which claims 51% women membership). this dude is just doing what THIS VERY SITE preaches, how to make it a better and fuller experience for EVERYONE.

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what was in my head was like 10 times what is here but like i said, after reading more responses i was like "why bother..."

Re what he said above. I totally agree with everything, I was going to post something on the thread too until I realised it was just turning into a stoning contest. I felt the people arguing against you were being hypocrytical and childish. I can't put it any better than above so I won't try.

Sorry that people seem to jump all over this topic. I would love to see a SB site. Maybe not here, I don't know, but I would join one. I love that there is an SG Group, and I also wish that overall, the pic quality would be better. We have such sexy boy members here. Sigh... Are you going to do a set? That would be nice. Show them how it's done.

Mmm, I'm not sure if that'll ever happen. I'm gonna drop you an email.

Are you getting back together just because there's no one else around?

And yes, meth is not one of the food groups. Although, Henry Rollins suggests that if you're going to do drugs, PCP, crystal meth, and hard alcohol are the way to go.

well, thanks.

you're pretty hot yourself.

I dig boys who say lass. Enough said.

damn double posts!

[Edited on Dec 18, 2003 12:25PM]