keith

Nick Mason is the only member of Pink Floyd who's been there for the whole ride, from the beginning to the present. Through his forty years behind the drums for the legendary band he's witnessed the departures of Syd Barrett and Roger Waters, the arrival of David Gilmour, and even more changes in style, direction, and levels of fame (and infamy) for the group. It's fitting, then, that he should be the first member of the group to write an insider history of the band. His new book, Inside Out: A Personal History of Pink Floyd is a comprehensive auto-biography of one of the most influential, and successful, bands in rock'n'roll history. Far from a mere coffee-table decoration, the band's story is told from the very beginning to the present-day through Mason's self-effacing wit, insight, and humor, and packed with previously unseen photographs and recollections from a host of people involved with Pink Floyd through the years. It's an essential read for any fan of the band.

Keith Daniels: More was recently released on DVD. Have you seen it recently?

Nick Mason: No, I don't think I've seen it for about twenty years.

KD: You've said that you'd been working on this book since 1994. What took so long, and why did you feel the time was right for a biography of Floyd?

NM: I think a couple of things. You're right, I started ten years ago, and then it really got a bit bogged down. It was going to be sort of an "official" history, and then it became apparent that to get it to be an official history we would, all four of us, have to agree on every version of every event. So, I really couldn't quite see how to take it all [in], and it really went into abeyance for a while. I actually ended up working on another book, about cars. Then, a couple of years ago, things changed. Our manager of thirty years, Steve O'Rourke, died unexpectedly, and I suddenly realized that, actually, people that I was sort of thinking would eventually help me -- fact checking and filling me in on extra details -- might not all be around to help. So, I thought, "Right. This indicates that I've actually got to get on and do it." I also worked out with David [Gilmour] that, by making it my version of events, if anyone cared to disagree, that was fine. We'd just say "This is how I perceived it." If other people had other versions, so be it. Finally, I'd met Roger [Waters] around the same time, on holiday, and we'd sort of rekindled the friendship. It sort of gave me what can only be described as a happy ending, and a good way of rounding the book off at that particular point. It just all seemed liked the right time to get it finished and actually done.

KD: Were you surprised by how different people's recollections of the same events can be?

NM: Astonished, and [about] how much time we could spend arguing the task. Whether it was Cleveland or Pittsburgh, which particular track it was that somebody... It's extraordinary. People either have a very, very clear memory, or they remember absolutely nothing at all. [Laughs]

KD: I noticed that, in many places in the book, you seemed to be extrapolating events with phrases like "We must have been..." or "We probably were...". How difficult was it for you to remember everything?

NM: Quite difficult, but fortunately I'm quite inventive.

KD: [Laughs] In looking back, were you surprised by things you hadn't remembered that suddenly sprung to mind?

NM: Oh, endlessly. You'd look at a photograph and remember people that you'd sort of forgotten about. I still am [surprised]. Someone will say "Do you remember Pepperland?"-- playing Pepperland in Los Angeles -- or something like that. They just remind you of shows that had completely gone out of your head. You just need one trigger and immediately you remember the venue, or someone who was there, or some event that took place.

KD: Pink Floyd had, at one time, somewhat of an antagonistic relationship with journalists. How did it feel to step into that role yourself?

NM: Yeah, crossing the enemy line. Very exciting. A couple of things, really. The first thing I discovered is that there is some extraordinary in-built mechanism in cassette tape recorders, that, when you start an interview, the thing explodes. I'd always seen this with journalists interviewing me, but when I came to interview other people, I was astonished that the tape would spring out, or the batteries would go flat, or the thing wouldn't record at all. That was an eye-opener. I think actually some years ago I discovered that I really quite enjoyed writing, so I'd done a little bit more of, if not quite journalism, I knew a bit more about how it worked. I think the period where we were a bit pissed-off with journalists tended be less-so in America, more in Europe, when we felt that we were being misrepresented, and couldn't see that they were being very much help to us.

KD: What are some of your favorite books about music, and did you draw any lessons from them in writing the book?

NM: I tried to read quite a lot. I couldn't find that many books that interested me, mainly because so many of them are written by music critics or journalists, and they have to take, for their source material, sort of second-hand comments. It's very difficult to get an entire band to actually agree to say anything significant. I thought the Nick Schaffner book on Pink Floyd, Saucerful of Secrets, was quite good, but now very out-of-date. He'd done an extraordinarily good job considering he didn't have real inside knowledge. There were a few other things. There was a book, not related to what I was going to do at all, from the drummer of Canned Heat, [Fito de la Parra's Living the Blues]. My favorite music book is actually Stravinsky's letters, his writings, which is absolutely terrific. So, there were a couple of things I'd read in the past, but, to some extent, I had a fairly clear field, I think.

KD: You seem to have been able to gather recollections from a wide range of people associated with the band. Was anyone reluctant to participate?

NM: No. I have to say that everyone gave their best. There were some people who were completely useless: very anxious to help, but you'd say, "Right, I'm trying to check some stuff. Do you remember Cleveland, 1972?" and they'd go, "Cleveland, 1972? Uh... no." You'd say "Well, we played such and such," and they'd go, "Oh, hmm, did we?" Norman Smith, very good, remembered everything about the early sessions. Snowy White, the guy who played guitar with us, and played with Roger a fair amount, was an absolute star. He was brilliant. He could not only remember stuff, he could write about it almost in my voice. So, instead of having to take the stuff that he said and rewrite it, I could almost take the text that he'd wrote to me and put it straight into the book.

KD: You speak in the book of the band sometimes as if it were a separate entity. Do you feel, in some way, Pink Floyd exists apart from the members of the band?

NM: Umm... yes, I suppose I do, really. I mean, I suppose I see myself as one person, and as a member of Pink Floyd, I'm something else. That's a good point. I can't express it properly, but it's absolutely true. I suppose it's something like this: when the four of us are together, being Pink Floyd, I suppose I feel like a slightly different person -- perhaps I'm empowered in some way; I've suddenly become more important. Then, as soon as we drop out of that, I revert back to a slightly different person.

KD: Does that feeling make it easier to continue even when individual members leave?

NM: I don't know, because I don't know whether the others necessarily feel that. It might be significant in that I've [Laughs] sort of been the one that's hung out the longest.

KD: [Laughs] Yeah, you talked about, at one point, you'd be the guy who looted the...

NM: The typewriter.

KD: There are a lot of great photographs in this book from your personal collection. Have you always been a pack rat? Did you have all these things cataloged?

NM: No, I didn't. All I had were boxes with a bunch of stuff in them. I got someone to help catalog the boxes, really. I'm not an archivist in the [Rolling Stones'] Bill Wyman sense. Bill's brilliant, keeps everything, knows exactly what it is, makes lists, all the rest of it, but I did have boxes with stuff in them, things like the odd press clipping. It could even be just the menu from an old hotel, or I don't know what. You just need those little triggers to give you something to talk about.

KD: Was it tempting at all to sort of edit the more awkward moments, or to make yourself look better?

NM: It was certainly... Not really, and I'll tell you why. It's because I knew that the others were going to read the book, and consequently, it's a bit like having that [Laughs] spirit of darkness looking over your shoulder. I probably wrote the book for the benefit of my children, but constantly with the knowledge that David, Rick, and Roger would all be looking at it. I would not wish to, afterwards, go "Oh, I'm ashamed of that," or "I did try to take too much credit there" or whatever. I think you're always being kept honest. That was probably the most significant pressure to keep it straight.

KD: This is probably a small part of your life, but it's something I know my audience will be interested in. In chapter 8, you talk briefly about punk rock, and particularly your work with the Damned on Music For Pleasure. Were you surprised when they contacted you, and why did you decide to work with them?

NM: Yeah. First of all, I was surprised, and I jumped at the chance. Knowing what I know now, I think what probably actually happened was that they approached our publisher, and what they really had in mind was they wanted to see if Syd Barrett would produce them, which would have been pretty wild. I think it was probably a far better experience for me than for them. By the time we got into the studio, the band was fragmenting anyway. Brian was really keen to work with me, [but] I think the Captain [Sensible] and Rat [Scabies] wanted to do something a bit wilder. So there wasn't that sort of unity that would've enabled us to develop an album as a team, but having said that, I loved the speed with which they worked, the aggression, and the fact that the album was made in the time it normally would've taken Floyd to set up the drum sound.

KD: Were you surprised at the negative reviews of that album, and what did you think of it, personally?

NM: I think that, because of the state of the band, it was impossible to make a great record. I'm sorry that it didn't work, really, as well as everyone would have hoped. It's very difficult. As soon as the album was over, Brian split, and they went in slightly different ways.

KD: The next thing you talk about in the book is the making of The Wall, which is about alienation between the performer and the audience, and, within the context of that, you tear down that wall -- something punk rock was also trying to do. Do you feel that The Wall might've been inspired by, at least the attitude of, punk rock?

NM: No, I don't think I do, really. Funnily enough, I think the album that was most influenced by punk was probably Animals, because that was done more or less in the same period, and was probably one of the leanest records we ever made, in terms of the band playing together, and not having much extraneous session players, other instruments, what have you. I think Roger's view of the alienation issue, and the wall between the performer and the audience, was probably brought out of playing the big stadium shows, and the feeling that the audience probably weren't in touch with what was going on onstage. For me, the whole punk thing was almost a rage against what had become the new conservatives, really.

KD: I was going to ask you who you were planning to vote for in May. What party, I mean.

NM: Very difficult. Well, not difficult to decide who not to vote for. Certainly not Conservative, and I'm afraid to say, I've been a Labour voter all my life, but I can't see myself approving of where we've got to with Labour these days. Lib Dems, probably. Either Lib Dems, or the Green party. That might be the way forward.

KD: There's an interesting line in the book, I assume you were referring to Thatcher, where you talk about "the wallflowers who were left out in the sixties", and took control in the eighties. I get the same feeling from Bush, sometimes, that he was probably the guy in the sixties with a crew cut who thought the hippies were disgusting.

NM: And also he was probably ignored by the hippies. That's the problem. We should never leave these people out, because they either climb up clock towers and shoot people, or become President and shoot another lot of people.

KD: [Laughs] What's next for you?

NM: No big plans. I have to say that I've really enjoyed doing the book, and I'd love to do some more writing. I think that might be the way to go, unless anyone comes along and says "Let's do some more music."

KD: What do you have in mind?

NM: Well, I've threatened the rest of the band that I shall do a novel based loosely on my life, painting myself as a far better person, and demonizing the rest of them. [Laughs]

More information about the book, Nick Mason, and Pink Floyd can be found at their official site: PinkFloyd.com.