HEADONISM: AN INTERVIEW WITH KILJOY
The latest in an ongoing series of chats with SG friends and semi-strangers, The Headonism Interviews.
I am spasmodically delighted to publish this here interview with Kiljoy. It's a long interview, and he tells great stories, and it's so worth your time. I hope you enjoy as much as I did.
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1) Is it purely my imagination that there are unusual numbers of SG folks from your lovely part of the globe [New Zealand / Australia]? Moreover, much has been said of America's collective Puritanical neurosis, so I could be imagining this also, but doesn't there seem to be something a little...daringly libertine about you folks?
That's a hard one, and my answer will obviously be mere speculation, but here goes...
I guess it's factorial really. I know I became aware of the site because an old friend of mine from School, Olivia, was one of the founders of the site and another good friend, Sawks, helped Olivia and s5 code the bones of what was the original Suicide Girls many moons ago ('93 I believe). Well, that's me accounted for. As for the many other antipodeans on SG? Well, we are a touch more liberal politically around these parts, although not usually sexually liberal (New Zealanders can be very shy and reserved, more so that Australians), so that shoots that idea out of the water. To be honest I'd like to see some figures around the geographic representation of this site's membership, sadly I think that we shall never be privy to that information. I'd hazard a guess and say that it's probably just something in the water.
2) Goodness, I had no idea you had relations back to the foundations of the site. But you've only been a member, I see, since 2004. Anything in particular stall you from joining? And what eventually brought you into the fold? Also, as someone who's been here for quite some time before me, have you noticed any interesting changes or evolution?
When I first joined the site in '04 I was a very different person, well not quite, but I was definitely a lot younger and my personal ideals and understandings weren't as considered as they are now I guess, (this site itself has made me question everything I thought I knew about myself from my sexuality, politics, ethics, music, diet, etc. etc.) so I don't know if the site has changed that much, although I'm sure it has, or if my own personal understandings and views have changed in turn altering how I view this site. Trying to be less self aware about things, Suicide Girls now does seem less chaotic and anarchic than it used to be with it's own culture of behaviour and existence that has grown from the conflicts that inevitably arise from such chaos. Although there was more open minded people present and active in groups and on the boards, the lack of rules and moderators to enforce them sometimes led to huge flaming sessions, backwards and forwards, with the trolls usually claiming some sort of 'freedom of speech' impingement. That in turn bred rules and more active mods. Another aspect of change is the mainstreaming of the outwardly present SG image: the conventionally 'hot' early 20 something with piercings/tattoos/alt-hairstyle or all of the above shot in a slightly more erotic art than porn style usually with an alt-culture theme attached for good measure. Not that this is bad, but some of the amazingly beautiful girls who've had great sets rejected for what one can only assume was due to 'not fitting the mold' does make me wonder what's going on in HQ. The one thing I do love about this site is the communities that thrive on here, the active members of the groups and boards are able to support each other from opposite sides of the globe about everything from sobriety, coming out, body image issues, mental health issues etc. This is why I like this site: a liberal, and sex positive space where only intolerance isn't tolerated. If the world could be like SG I'd be happy and probably walk around naked if it wasn't too cold. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.
3) Of course, between 2004 and now, the alt-look itself became mainstream, and even blas. (When I went to high school, it was daring for women to get butterfly tattoos on their ankles; now full sleeves or chest tats seem de rigueur.) And I've also noticed that the women who go pink are more likely than not to be conventionally unconventional -- but I wonder if this isn't just human nature: to establish norms as quickly as possible and reward exemplars of these norms? Of course, it's terribly exciting (and terrible) when you just can't manage to fit in. With regards to others, what are some things you're attracted to that just don't seem to be popular, or even acceptable?
I find my attraction to both men and women to be driven by intelligence, personality and attitude far more than outward physical appearance. Sure, the animalistic part of the attraction is still there, I like boobs and bums and cocks, but the scope of what I consider to be physically attractive is I think much wider than the mainstream norm. I have had to unlearn some of the socialised concepts around masculinity and sexuality since becoming an adult (not that I've ever really felt like an adult) and I've really tried to open myself up to anything and everything, and have since found myself attracted to pretty much... well, anything and everything. I now have a long list of fetishes and kinks (not that I've actually engaged in much of it) but I've really tried to be question everything and ended up feeling much happier for it. On SG I find I spend far more time on the groups and the boards, being intellectually stimulated as well as visually and sharing myself for the stimulation of others (hopefully).
4) Oh, KJ, you've stumbled on my cunning plan to keep you talking until the interview-friendly subject of kinks inevitably arose. You've triggered the sudden but inevitable Speed Answer Round! For each of the following questions about your preferences, please give a 1 to 5 word response. Extra points awards for witty, revealing, lewd, or hi-larious responses. Go!:
Exhibitionism vs. voyeurism? Submissiveness vs. dominance?
About 50/50. I prefer power equity.
Day vs. night sex?
Yes please.
Amateur vs. professional porn?
How about Pro-Am?
Intoxicated vs. sober sex?
I'd rather remember.
Group vs. trio vs. duo vs. solo sex?
I'll take two thanks.
Chastity vs. priapic satyric goat demon?
Just call me Goatboy.
Jackhammer something-to-prove vs. Vaseline tenor saxophone late-80s sex?
Think of the Tenacious D song...
Most inappropriate music to accompany sex?
Probably the music I'd want.
Fetishized non-genital body parts?
The body is a genital.
Public vs. private?
Mostly private due to legality.
Posh hotel vs. sleeping bag?
Fort in the living room?
Costumed role-playing superhero babysitter vs. self-respect?
Does it require a d20?
5) You failed to compliantly answer a single question!; I like that. Your response to the last question prompts this one:
What's your stance on gleefully immature social / sexual / "Truth or Dare"-esque diversions? Assuming a certain amount of experience, please describe three illuminating episodes in which party games got (delightfully / horribly) out of hand.
Sadly you assume too much. Although I've been part of flirtatious party games, phone calls, chat conversations and the like I've always only taken it up to a certain level before respectfully throwing water of the fire. I've never really been a self confident person sexually until maybe the past 4 or 5 years and that whole time I've been in a monogamous and loving partnership with my now wife Sarraz. I've always been 'kinky' but I've never had the courage to actively organise an 'all the way' senario and when I've inadvertently found myself in the beginnings of some sexual supernova I've always excused myself awkwardly and rejoined the safety of the rest of the party. I'm sorry I'm such a disappointment.
As for my stance on them, well.... I'm all for them, as a fun initiation of possible sexual interaction, yet I'm not in a situation where I can or will participate further than friendly flirting right now. This may or may not change in the future.
6) You should rightfully be ashamed of your sexual decency. If only I'd known when I asked for this interview that you didn't whip well-oiled slave boys and ride rickshaws drawn by redheaded concubines...
(Oh...the joke has backfired...for now I'm gauzy and vacant...thinking about those redheaded concubines...)
Okay okay okay. Next question. It's time for a refreshingly straightforward, somewhat generic, even boring question: How did you choose your SG name? It seems like a knowingly dour name to wear around a sexy flirty rah rah site like SG?
Ok, my current SG name, which was also my first SG name (I used KVNT for a couple of years until about 6 months ago when I switched back), is my DJ alias that I chose for myself around 12 years ago. I chose it because it was the name of my favourite New Zealand made album 'Kiljoy' by a band called Shihad. I inadvertently misspelled it though, leaving out the second 'l', and ending up with Kiljoy. After having that pointed out to me a year or so later I decided it was better anyway due to its uniqueness.
It does in a strange way suit me though. I surround myself rather happily with negative things and ideas; they make me happy... I listen to all sorts of music, but I do prefer dark, aggressive, violent and generally negative music and lyrical content. I'm also that person who doesn't mind telling you when things aren't ok, in fact I'll probably unload onto people quite happily not even realising that it's 'killing their buzz'... So in a way my handle is quite fitting don't you think?
7) Perhaps it suits you; I'm still learning! Personally, I've always gone for the sonically chipper / lyrically dire. I like a bubblegum requiem.
Anyhow, getting back to your name, I had thought it was a pun on 'Kilroy was here,' the ubiquitous WWII graffiti...but my range of reference is weird. I grew up with grandparents, encyclopedias from the '50s, and Victorian Gothic.
So, okay, my question is: tell us something about the circumstances of your childhood. Did you feel you had a typical upbringing, or was it charmingly weird, or not-so-charmingly different? How do you think the way you were raised help you fit in or stand out?
My early childhood was magical. I was born in a small Bay of Plenty town called Kawerau. The town itself had in recent years boomed in population due to the creation of a pulp and paper mill to harvest and process the abundance of Pinus Radiata that had been planted 2 decades earlier specifically for 'the Mill'. My parents had moved there so my father could work in the risk insurance dept at the mill whilst my mother set about birthing both myself and my younger brother. The Bay of Plenty is a magical place full of old Maori myths and beautiful landscapes which allow those myths to ring true. Our family was definitely among they higher end of incomes in the town, not that there was a lot of poverty, but due to the white collar nature of my father's work compared to the predominantly blue collar population we seemed very well off. There was a high percentage of Maori in the town, not uncommon for the area, maybe making Pakeha (us white fullas) a minority of around 10% or so. To be honest I didn't even realise I wasn't Maori until around age 8. I was horrified! 'But I'm a New Zealander' I cried to my mother... 'But our relatives are from England' she replied. 'But I don't wanna be from England, I wanna be from HERE!'
This to be honest is still a big thing for me. Growing up with so many Maori friends who were healthily connected to and surrounded by their mother culture that I too felt connected to by default and the fact I don't Whakapapa (Maori genealogy that's spiritually linked to the land of your people) back to this place, but instead to a 'foreign' country where I can't even get a work visa leaves me in a state of cultural emptiness with no historical lineage I feel proud of or connected too. My Maori friends and I still joke about how I am Ngati Pakeha (kind of an oxymoron, Ngati is a Maori tribal prefix and Pakeha loosely translates a foreigner).
But I digress.... My upbringing there was one of colour. Summers spent on East Coast Maraes (Maori meeting houses where the tribe can come together and eat, drink, be merry and generally be connected to their culture), Bay of Plenty beaches (some of the best in the world in my opinion), riding our BMX bikes through miles and miles of pine forrest pretending we're on Endor, etc etc... Usual child stuff. At age 9, after a few years of my mother studying Japanese at University level via correspondence school, she decided to take both my brother and I to Japan for a year so she could study Japanese and teach English at a University in Kyoto. Talk about culture shock, but being kids you just suck it up. By the end of our year there my brother and I were fluent in the local Kamigamo dialect as well as the common Tyokyo/Kansai dialect and even dressed like little Japanese kids in those cutesy clothes covered in awful English phrases that make absolutely no sense what so ever. Upon returning to New Zealand we were moved (dads office shifted) up to Auckland, specifically to the North Shore. To make an analogy, that'd be like moving from Helena, Montana to Orange County... Culture shock once more. We'd gone from well to dos in Kawerau to interesting Gaijin (Japanese for foreigner) kids in Japan to lower middle class (with an emphasis on the lower) in Milford on the North Shore of Auckland. The kids there were 'cool'. They had the 'cool' clothes and did 'cool' things like play Soccer and race single seat sailing boats... I had a BMX and Japanese kids clothes that got me laughed at. I soon found comfort among the other 'ugly' misfits during intermediate (middle school) and high school and found my own musical abilities then too. I decided from about age 12 or 13 that I didn't want to try fit in with those jerks who made fun of me, I wanted to not be like them at all, and now years later getting stopped in the street by old school acquaintances, the ones that would dump my in rubbish bins, the ones that would call me 'faggot', are now interested in what I'm up to. The conversations usually go as follows, in fact this one is almost verbatim:
Him: "Hey Evan, remember me, we went to school together... Westlake Boys..."
Me: "Yeah, hey dude." recognising the face but not remembering his name at all "How's things?"
Him: "Yeah, really good man. Hey you're doing well eh? I bought you new album last week, it's pretty wicked eh?"
Me: "Oh cool, thanks man... Yeah... What are you up to now?"
Him "Oh, I just work at the bank down the road," he's wearing a suit over his once 1st XV school rugby team body "it's OK I guess but you're doing well eh?"
He looks at me with a smile that can't hide the slight twinge of jealousy and maybe guilt for being a complete cunt to me during our schooling...
Me: "Yeah dude, hey thanks. I gotta split. Catch you up soon"...
I know he's probably grown up now and isn't the awful little child he once was. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there. But you know what, it vindicates me in a way; seeing that look on his face having. It feels like victory... Or am I still just stuck in the past?
Woah, rant... Sorry. Long story short: I've always felt like an outcast, somewhat different from the 'others', I guess we all do in a way, but I am proud of who am am and what I do and where I've come from.
8) What a beautiful story. How silly I brought up the subject so late in the discussion; I would've asked so many more questions about your childhood, your many homes and cultures, and your adventures. I'm quite unable to disguise my envy...
America's primary crops are myopia and hubris. We have no idea what happens in the rest of the world, but we're certain we're better at it. Yet I've always dreamed of living in places like you describe: across the world, somewhere very very old, somewhere a part of the world but also separate from it. And at the same time, I think: it's a short life, and you must be in the heart of it.
This brings up too too many questions. For you, is there a contention between city-living and country-living? Where do you feel you belong? Do you feel you're missing something by being where you are?
Lastly, from my megalomaniacal American perspective, I can't help but ask: What do you think about America and have you thought of coming here? (And why oh why must practically everyone everywhere at some point wonder about going to America?)
Country vs. city? Well, I like aspects of both, and we're lucky in New Zealand that even the biggest metropolitan centres are only 30 mins drive from virtual wilderness (virtual being used in the non-technological meaning of the word). Here in central Auckland we can be at Piha (on the west coast) in 30 mins or Tawharanui (on the east coast) in an hour or so. So you don't really miss out on country life even living in the city assuming of course you have a vehicle. City life in New Zealand is very relaxed compared to many other cities I've visited. Auckland, which is the hustlest and bustlest of New Zealand cities, has a very similar vibe to say Seattle, although it does lack the scenery of the Northwest, but it terms of pace, I'd say it's similar.
My dream is for Sarraz and I to buy a couple of arces (or more) on the Tawharanui peninsula and build an eco-friendly yet modern and convenient house with vege garden, hens for eggs and maybe a wee vineyard too. So far it's just a dream that we both share but we'll get there I'm sure. Right now though, we're content with our turn of the century villa in Kingsland.
I love America, it truly is a great country. I also love Americans, many of them (the majority that I've met) are exceptionally nice people. I love what America is built on, the values, the hopes and dreams. Sure, there are many awful things about the US, but there are many awful things about all countries. I've met Brittons that are just as insular as the stereotypical ignorant American, as well as Italians, Russians, Israelis and yes, even Kiwis. I've visited a lot of your fair country, sure I have my favourite places but aside from maybe Miami I'd surely return again. I'm absolutely in love with the pacific northwest, San Fran and Seattle being my faves. I also have spent a lot of time in Philly, and I have grown to love it's roguish charms. NYC: nice place to visit for 48hrs if you have the money. LA: Nice place to visit for 24hrs (find me the closest Los Betos where my friend has to order in Spanish and I'll be happy). Ahhhh, I have many happy memories of traveling the States, even from Salt Lake City and Omaha, Nebraska... The grass is always greener, and your grass is pretty green too. You've just gotta look at it the right way.
9) Nothing said about America is untrue. America is everything and its opposite. Still, thanks for the kind sentiments and I desperately wish I were in a position to return the compliments. New Zealand is endlessly attractive to me, and I'd like to visit when life and finances agree. (Among the other places you've lived, I would also crazymuch wish to visit Japan.)
And I agree, America's Pacific Northwest is the corner that appeals to me most. The corridor between Portland, Oregon and Seattle is endlessly fascinating, Portland is one of my favorite cities, and several years ago I toured the Olympic Peninsula -- the northwestern-most protuberance of Washington State, which contains the only rainforest in the contiguous United States.
(And the spooks and the dreaming forests of the Northwest! Have you ever watched "Twin Peaks"?)
Your couple of acres on the Tawharanui peninsula sounds enchanting...and your life with Sarraz sounds terribly romantic. I always ask you such large questions -- but you're so good at responding -- that I can't help but ask another: could you share with us the story of Kiljoy and Sarraz? I don't mean anything secret or invasive, of course, but I'd love to hear the version of your meeting and courtship that you might tell around a dinner table, during drinks and reminiscences.
Ahhhh, it all began in a small hick town (probably actually passes as a small city) called Palmerston North, which is about 2 hours drive north of the capital Wellington. I was on tour as a live sound engineer for my friends' band Kitsch. We were playing an all ages venue in town called 'the Stomach' after which we would pack down and drive to Wellington to stay with a friend of the band named Sarah; I was told she was 'cool'. We arrived in 'Palmy' with support band and punk-rock reprobates Missing Teeth in tow and went about setting up the show, doing the normal pre show things: sound check etc, after which Sam (Kitsch vocalist) and I stood watching the many young girls sift into the venue after the doors had opened. Five minutes passed with us giggling about cute girls and then, BAM! This pale faced, blue eyed, blond haired angel walked through the door. No shit, my heart skipped and my eyes widened. She looked straight at me and smiled her big smile... I nudged Sam, and whispered something along the lines of 'Oh my god dude, check her out.' to which he replied 'Dude, that's our friend Sarah and you're not going there.'
Oh well, I'd just come out of a fairly abusive 18 month relationship anyway and I was just becoming happy being a single guy again, I didn't need another relationship right now anyway, or so I told myself. In between mixing the first and second bands of the evening I popped outside to smoke a ciggie and Sarah was standing there with her good friend Shelly drinking an awful concoction of cheap vodka and what you would call 'koolade'. I introduced myself to her and she said she knew who I was, I thanked her for letting us stay at her place for the weekend's shows and she said she was happy to help out. For a 19 year old she seemed pretty grounded and smart, I don't think I even knew her age at the time and might've guessed at 24 or 25; my age at the time. The show went on, it was ok I guess but I remember nothing special about it apart from the Missing Teeth vocalist getting a blowjob from a hideously underaged girl in their van whilst her friends yelled at her to stop and the rest of his band were laughing and filming it on their handy cam. We packed down, loaded our van and headed for Wellington at around midnight with Sarah traveling with us for directions to her house. On the way we stopped for gas and I made the bold move of usurping the front seat next to Sarah from my friend Dean because I wanted to talk with her some more. The joke goes: 'We started talking and we've never stopped', I think a few people in the van even told us to shut up. We found we shared many of the same ethics and ideals (vegetarianism, our internal war between humanism and misanthropy, etc.), we also shared a very dark sense of humour... I had a gig to play in Wellington myself that same night, DJing a friend's going away do at a club called Studio Nine. I was booked to play from 5am to 7am (believe it or not it was only the second to last slot of the 'night') and so as the rest of or party continued onto bed at Sarah's I was dropped of outside my venue, record crate in hand, with directions back to Sarah's place. The gig was fun enough but being a sober person at 3am at a drum'n'bass gig is a very weird experience although I was very used to it at the time. I played my slot, turned down many drinks and offers of assorted drugs and at about 7am I dragged myself hastily out of the club, into the late dawn and trundled off in search of Sarah's place.
That next day we all got up quite late, sometime well after midday, and started plotting some sort of late brunch. Sarah and I continued talking to each other and decided we'd make Thai noodles in a satay sauce for the whole crew and off we went together to the local asian food store to pick up some groceries. Whilst walking she quizzed me on my current relationship status and she seemed surprised and happy that I was single. She'd heard that I'd gone to the UK the year before with my girlfriend (with whom I'd had the aforementioned abusive relationship with) and had assumed we were still together. I told her the gory details of the dying days of that pairing as well as other things about myself and she gave me a brief history of herself too...
We made noodles, they were yum...
The Wellington gig that night with Kitsch was great. More shenanigans from the Missing Teeth guys in the way of starting a bonfire in the back carpark at Valve bar first using the empty beer boxes they had a multitude of in their van and then, once they'd run out of beer boxes, parts of the club's furniture (chairs and tables) and even parts of the club itself (door frame flushings etc.). The bar manager was furious. After the gig, we decided to pick up the gear the next day so we didn't have to double hand it and we all casually walked back to Sarah's place, a short 10 minutes away from the venue. Sarah and I walked back together talking the whole time, she mentioned she was a little cold so without even thinking I extended my arm out around her shoulders and held her close to me as we walked the rest of the way. I could tell she liked this. I also liked this.
Upon reaching her house we found two punk rock bands in the throes of post gig drinking and smoking. It only took an hour before everything calmed down and Sarah and I found ourselves cuddling next to each other on the couch in the lounge watching 'the Others' on the telly. I was gently caressing her bare arms, focusing more on our caressing her than the movie but we both pretended to be watching it for fear of seeming too keen... The movie finished and she aggressively dragged me up the stairs to her bedroom where we made love for hours (seriously, hours) until the sun started to come up and we started talking again. I told her she was perfect for me and we cuddled and talked and cuddled and talked. Finally I had to get up, shower and leave with the guys to pickup our gear and head back to Auckland. I promised her I'd be back in 2 weeks for another gig and would bring her my vegan chocolate cake I'd bragged about earlier.
2 weeks later, after talking on the phone every night, I arrived back at her house with the vegan chocolate cake. We made love some more, we talked some more and 7 months later (after many intercity visits from each other) she moved up to Auckland and we settled into our first house together. 5 years (to the day) after that first night in her bedroom I proposed to her on the beach at Byron Bay, Australia, and a year to the day after that we were married on Waiheke Island where we had been living.
I was love at first sight, but it was also so much more than that, and it only seems to be getting stronger.
10) Thank you for the beautiful story. My last question is intriguing and serious:
You seem to live in numerous distinct but intersecting communities. There's your music community, and the many communities you've been a part of in different cities and countries, and your marriage -- which is its own community of two. And of course there's SG, which seems to be a passionate but difficult community. I wonder: How do you (or do you?) resolve these competing areas of your life? Which community demands the most of you? Is any particular community the one in which you feel most yourself? And do you ever want to run away from all of them -- shut down the SG, quit the band -- and hike out with Sarraz to that dream Tawharanui farm?
Ahhh, yes. I do live in very segregated communities. The music communities I am a part of are even segregated themselves, for example: I've been a dance music producer / DJ of reasonable profile in the past and now play in a hardcore / punkrock / postpunk outfit and also a thrash metal band and all three of those have very separate scenes / communities and on top of that with the work I do as an audio engineer / producer leaves me with a very diverse collection of friends and acquaintances; that that's just music (although that's the biggest part of my life). Then there's the wife's friends, who are either people she's known since high school or people she met since through work. Many of them have become very very close friends of mine too, she has immaculate taste in humans. Then there's the old groups of friends I do try keeping in touch with: my old school mates, kids I used to skate with, etc. etc. The hardest thing about having so many people as 'friends' is that only very few are close enough for me to really bare my true self or soul with. Many of my band mates have no idea about my bisexual / pansexual tendencies (although I'm sure a few might suspect), only a few select friends know. Some are comfortable with it and some are a little less than comfortable, this could be because with these friends I've openly said that I wish sex and sexuality wasn't as much of a big deal everyone makes it out to be so we could all just fuck and have fun... That could be it... Maybe they're not uncomfortable about my sexuality per se, but more about their potential involvement in my sexuality...
If I could feel the most comfortable in any community it would probably be here on SG. Part of that comes through the partial anonymity that it provides, although I don't exactly try to hide myself here, but it's the mostly welcoming and supportive nature to positive lifestyle choices that I love here. I can be me and people can appreciate that.
As for quitting work and bands and running to the hills, sure on a weekly basis I dream of a simpler life with just Sarraz and myself. Both of us are workaholics and social flirters so we find our time occupied mostly with work, hobbies or hanging out with friends. We are getting better at making time for just the two of us though, after reading The Ethical Slut we realised that although there's absolutely nothing wrong with our relationship as it is right now, if we don't make an effort to do things together, just the two of us, that we may find ourselves in stagnant water further down the track. Besides, it's just a great excuse to spend some quality time together, not that you really need an excuse, but it's an excuse for an excuse I guess...
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What a lovely conclusion to our interview! You're a wonderful writer, Kiljoy, and it's been a shiny honor to chat with you. Thank you so much for your kindness, trust, and openness!
The latest in an ongoing series of chats with SG friends and semi-strangers, The Headonism Interviews.
I am spasmodically delighted to publish this here interview with Kiljoy. It's a long interview, and he tells great stories, and it's so worth your time. I hope you enjoy as much as I did.
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1) Is it purely my imagination that there are unusual numbers of SG folks from your lovely part of the globe [New Zealand / Australia]? Moreover, much has been said of America's collective Puritanical neurosis, so I could be imagining this also, but doesn't there seem to be something a little...daringly libertine about you folks?
That's a hard one, and my answer will obviously be mere speculation, but here goes...
I guess it's factorial really. I know I became aware of the site because an old friend of mine from School, Olivia, was one of the founders of the site and another good friend, Sawks, helped Olivia and s5 code the bones of what was the original Suicide Girls many moons ago ('93 I believe). Well, that's me accounted for. As for the many other antipodeans on SG? Well, we are a touch more liberal politically around these parts, although not usually sexually liberal (New Zealanders can be very shy and reserved, more so that Australians), so that shoots that idea out of the water. To be honest I'd like to see some figures around the geographic representation of this site's membership, sadly I think that we shall never be privy to that information. I'd hazard a guess and say that it's probably just something in the water.
2) Goodness, I had no idea you had relations back to the foundations of the site. But you've only been a member, I see, since 2004. Anything in particular stall you from joining? And what eventually brought you into the fold? Also, as someone who's been here for quite some time before me, have you noticed any interesting changes or evolution?
When I first joined the site in '04 I was a very different person, well not quite, but I was definitely a lot younger and my personal ideals and understandings weren't as considered as they are now I guess, (this site itself has made me question everything I thought I knew about myself from my sexuality, politics, ethics, music, diet, etc. etc.) so I don't know if the site has changed that much, although I'm sure it has, or if my own personal understandings and views have changed in turn altering how I view this site. Trying to be less self aware about things, Suicide Girls now does seem less chaotic and anarchic than it used to be with it's own culture of behaviour and existence that has grown from the conflicts that inevitably arise from such chaos. Although there was more open minded people present and active in groups and on the boards, the lack of rules and moderators to enforce them sometimes led to huge flaming sessions, backwards and forwards, with the trolls usually claiming some sort of 'freedom of speech' impingement. That in turn bred rules and more active mods. Another aspect of change is the mainstreaming of the outwardly present SG image: the conventionally 'hot' early 20 something with piercings/tattoos/alt-hairstyle or all of the above shot in a slightly more erotic art than porn style usually with an alt-culture theme attached for good measure. Not that this is bad, but some of the amazingly beautiful girls who've had great sets rejected for what one can only assume was due to 'not fitting the mold' does make me wonder what's going on in HQ. The one thing I do love about this site is the communities that thrive on here, the active members of the groups and boards are able to support each other from opposite sides of the globe about everything from sobriety, coming out, body image issues, mental health issues etc. This is why I like this site: a liberal, and sex positive space where only intolerance isn't tolerated. If the world could be like SG I'd be happy and probably walk around naked if it wasn't too cold. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.
3) Of course, between 2004 and now, the alt-look itself became mainstream, and even blas. (When I went to high school, it was daring for women to get butterfly tattoos on their ankles; now full sleeves or chest tats seem de rigueur.) And I've also noticed that the women who go pink are more likely than not to be conventionally unconventional -- but I wonder if this isn't just human nature: to establish norms as quickly as possible and reward exemplars of these norms? Of course, it's terribly exciting (and terrible) when you just can't manage to fit in. With regards to others, what are some things you're attracted to that just don't seem to be popular, or even acceptable?
I find my attraction to both men and women to be driven by intelligence, personality and attitude far more than outward physical appearance. Sure, the animalistic part of the attraction is still there, I like boobs and bums and cocks, but the scope of what I consider to be physically attractive is I think much wider than the mainstream norm. I have had to unlearn some of the socialised concepts around masculinity and sexuality since becoming an adult (not that I've ever really felt like an adult) and I've really tried to open myself up to anything and everything, and have since found myself attracted to pretty much... well, anything and everything. I now have a long list of fetishes and kinks (not that I've actually engaged in much of it) but I've really tried to be question everything and ended up feeling much happier for it. On SG I find I spend far more time on the groups and the boards, being intellectually stimulated as well as visually and sharing myself for the stimulation of others (hopefully).
4) Oh, KJ, you've stumbled on my cunning plan to keep you talking until the interview-friendly subject of kinks inevitably arose. You've triggered the sudden but inevitable Speed Answer Round! For each of the following questions about your preferences, please give a 1 to 5 word response. Extra points awards for witty, revealing, lewd, or hi-larious responses. Go!:
Exhibitionism vs. voyeurism? Submissiveness vs. dominance?
About 50/50. I prefer power equity.
Day vs. night sex?
Yes please.
Amateur vs. professional porn?
How about Pro-Am?
Intoxicated vs. sober sex?
I'd rather remember.
Group vs. trio vs. duo vs. solo sex?
I'll take two thanks.
Chastity vs. priapic satyric goat demon?
Just call me Goatboy.
Jackhammer something-to-prove vs. Vaseline tenor saxophone late-80s sex?
Think of the Tenacious D song...
Most inappropriate music to accompany sex?
Probably the music I'd want.
Fetishized non-genital body parts?
The body is a genital.
Public vs. private?
Mostly private due to legality.
Posh hotel vs. sleeping bag?
Fort in the living room?
Costumed role-playing superhero babysitter vs. self-respect?
Does it require a d20?
5) You failed to compliantly answer a single question!; I like that. Your response to the last question prompts this one:
What's your stance on gleefully immature social / sexual / "Truth or Dare"-esque diversions? Assuming a certain amount of experience, please describe three illuminating episodes in which party games got (delightfully / horribly) out of hand.
Sadly you assume too much. Although I've been part of flirtatious party games, phone calls, chat conversations and the like I've always only taken it up to a certain level before respectfully throwing water of the fire. I've never really been a self confident person sexually until maybe the past 4 or 5 years and that whole time I've been in a monogamous and loving partnership with my now wife Sarraz. I've always been 'kinky' but I've never had the courage to actively organise an 'all the way' senario and when I've inadvertently found myself in the beginnings of some sexual supernova I've always excused myself awkwardly and rejoined the safety of the rest of the party. I'm sorry I'm such a disappointment.
As for my stance on them, well.... I'm all for them, as a fun initiation of possible sexual interaction, yet I'm not in a situation where I can or will participate further than friendly flirting right now. This may or may not change in the future.
6) You should rightfully be ashamed of your sexual decency. If only I'd known when I asked for this interview that you didn't whip well-oiled slave boys and ride rickshaws drawn by redheaded concubines...
(Oh...the joke has backfired...for now I'm gauzy and vacant...thinking about those redheaded concubines...)
Okay okay okay. Next question. It's time for a refreshingly straightforward, somewhat generic, even boring question: How did you choose your SG name? It seems like a knowingly dour name to wear around a sexy flirty rah rah site like SG?
Ok, my current SG name, which was also my first SG name (I used KVNT for a couple of years until about 6 months ago when I switched back), is my DJ alias that I chose for myself around 12 years ago. I chose it because it was the name of my favourite New Zealand made album 'Kiljoy' by a band called Shihad. I inadvertently misspelled it though, leaving out the second 'l', and ending up with Kiljoy. After having that pointed out to me a year or so later I decided it was better anyway due to its uniqueness.
It does in a strange way suit me though. I surround myself rather happily with negative things and ideas; they make me happy... I listen to all sorts of music, but I do prefer dark, aggressive, violent and generally negative music and lyrical content. I'm also that person who doesn't mind telling you when things aren't ok, in fact I'll probably unload onto people quite happily not even realising that it's 'killing their buzz'... So in a way my handle is quite fitting don't you think?
7) Perhaps it suits you; I'm still learning! Personally, I've always gone for the sonically chipper / lyrically dire. I like a bubblegum requiem.
Anyhow, getting back to your name, I had thought it was a pun on 'Kilroy was here,' the ubiquitous WWII graffiti...but my range of reference is weird. I grew up with grandparents, encyclopedias from the '50s, and Victorian Gothic.
So, okay, my question is: tell us something about the circumstances of your childhood. Did you feel you had a typical upbringing, or was it charmingly weird, or not-so-charmingly different? How do you think the way you were raised help you fit in or stand out?
My early childhood was magical. I was born in a small Bay of Plenty town called Kawerau. The town itself had in recent years boomed in population due to the creation of a pulp and paper mill to harvest and process the abundance of Pinus Radiata that had been planted 2 decades earlier specifically for 'the Mill'. My parents had moved there so my father could work in the risk insurance dept at the mill whilst my mother set about birthing both myself and my younger brother. The Bay of Plenty is a magical place full of old Maori myths and beautiful landscapes which allow those myths to ring true. Our family was definitely among they higher end of incomes in the town, not that there was a lot of poverty, but due to the white collar nature of my father's work compared to the predominantly blue collar population we seemed very well off. There was a high percentage of Maori in the town, not uncommon for the area, maybe making Pakeha (us white fullas) a minority of around 10% or so. To be honest I didn't even realise I wasn't Maori until around age 8. I was horrified! 'But I'm a New Zealander' I cried to my mother... 'But our relatives are from England' she replied. 'But I don't wanna be from England, I wanna be from HERE!'
This to be honest is still a big thing for me. Growing up with so many Maori friends who were healthily connected to and surrounded by their mother culture that I too felt connected to by default and the fact I don't Whakapapa (Maori genealogy that's spiritually linked to the land of your people) back to this place, but instead to a 'foreign' country where I can't even get a work visa leaves me in a state of cultural emptiness with no historical lineage I feel proud of or connected too. My Maori friends and I still joke about how I am Ngati Pakeha (kind of an oxymoron, Ngati is a Maori tribal prefix and Pakeha loosely translates a foreigner).
But I digress.... My upbringing there was one of colour. Summers spent on East Coast Maraes (Maori meeting houses where the tribe can come together and eat, drink, be merry and generally be connected to their culture), Bay of Plenty beaches (some of the best in the world in my opinion), riding our BMX bikes through miles and miles of pine forrest pretending we're on Endor, etc etc... Usual child stuff. At age 9, after a few years of my mother studying Japanese at University level via correspondence school, she decided to take both my brother and I to Japan for a year so she could study Japanese and teach English at a University in Kyoto. Talk about culture shock, but being kids you just suck it up. By the end of our year there my brother and I were fluent in the local Kamigamo dialect as well as the common Tyokyo/Kansai dialect and even dressed like little Japanese kids in those cutesy clothes covered in awful English phrases that make absolutely no sense what so ever. Upon returning to New Zealand we were moved (dads office shifted) up to Auckland, specifically to the North Shore. To make an analogy, that'd be like moving from Helena, Montana to Orange County... Culture shock once more. We'd gone from well to dos in Kawerau to interesting Gaijin (Japanese for foreigner) kids in Japan to lower middle class (with an emphasis on the lower) in Milford on the North Shore of Auckland. The kids there were 'cool'. They had the 'cool' clothes and did 'cool' things like play Soccer and race single seat sailing boats... I had a BMX and Japanese kids clothes that got me laughed at. I soon found comfort among the other 'ugly' misfits during intermediate (middle school) and high school and found my own musical abilities then too. I decided from about age 12 or 13 that I didn't want to try fit in with those jerks who made fun of me, I wanted to not be like them at all, and now years later getting stopped in the street by old school acquaintances, the ones that would dump my in rubbish bins, the ones that would call me 'faggot', are now interested in what I'm up to. The conversations usually go as follows, in fact this one is almost verbatim:
Him: "Hey Evan, remember me, we went to school together... Westlake Boys..."
Me: "Yeah, hey dude." recognising the face but not remembering his name at all "How's things?"
Him: "Yeah, really good man. Hey you're doing well eh? I bought you new album last week, it's pretty wicked eh?"
Me: "Oh cool, thanks man... Yeah... What are you up to now?"
Him "Oh, I just work at the bank down the road," he's wearing a suit over his once 1st XV school rugby team body "it's OK I guess but you're doing well eh?"
He looks at me with a smile that can't hide the slight twinge of jealousy and maybe guilt for being a complete cunt to me during our schooling...
Me: "Yeah dude, hey thanks. I gotta split. Catch you up soon"...
I know he's probably grown up now and isn't the awful little child he once was. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there. But you know what, it vindicates me in a way; seeing that look on his face having. It feels like victory... Or am I still just stuck in the past?
Woah, rant... Sorry. Long story short: I've always felt like an outcast, somewhat different from the 'others', I guess we all do in a way, but I am proud of who am am and what I do and where I've come from.
8) What a beautiful story. How silly I brought up the subject so late in the discussion; I would've asked so many more questions about your childhood, your many homes and cultures, and your adventures. I'm quite unable to disguise my envy...
America's primary crops are myopia and hubris. We have no idea what happens in the rest of the world, but we're certain we're better at it. Yet I've always dreamed of living in places like you describe: across the world, somewhere very very old, somewhere a part of the world but also separate from it. And at the same time, I think: it's a short life, and you must be in the heart of it.
This brings up too too many questions. For you, is there a contention between city-living and country-living? Where do you feel you belong? Do you feel you're missing something by being where you are?
Lastly, from my megalomaniacal American perspective, I can't help but ask: What do you think about America and have you thought of coming here? (And why oh why must practically everyone everywhere at some point wonder about going to America?)
Country vs. city? Well, I like aspects of both, and we're lucky in New Zealand that even the biggest metropolitan centres are only 30 mins drive from virtual wilderness (virtual being used in the non-technological meaning of the word). Here in central Auckland we can be at Piha (on the west coast) in 30 mins or Tawharanui (on the east coast) in an hour or so. So you don't really miss out on country life even living in the city assuming of course you have a vehicle. City life in New Zealand is very relaxed compared to many other cities I've visited. Auckland, which is the hustlest and bustlest of New Zealand cities, has a very similar vibe to say Seattle, although it does lack the scenery of the Northwest, but it terms of pace, I'd say it's similar.
My dream is for Sarraz and I to buy a couple of arces (or more) on the Tawharanui peninsula and build an eco-friendly yet modern and convenient house with vege garden, hens for eggs and maybe a wee vineyard too. So far it's just a dream that we both share but we'll get there I'm sure. Right now though, we're content with our turn of the century villa in Kingsland.
I love America, it truly is a great country. I also love Americans, many of them (the majority that I've met) are exceptionally nice people. I love what America is built on, the values, the hopes and dreams. Sure, there are many awful things about the US, but there are many awful things about all countries. I've met Brittons that are just as insular as the stereotypical ignorant American, as well as Italians, Russians, Israelis and yes, even Kiwis. I've visited a lot of your fair country, sure I have my favourite places but aside from maybe Miami I'd surely return again. I'm absolutely in love with the pacific northwest, San Fran and Seattle being my faves. I also have spent a lot of time in Philly, and I have grown to love it's roguish charms. NYC: nice place to visit for 48hrs if you have the money. LA: Nice place to visit for 24hrs (find me the closest Los Betos where my friend has to order in Spanish and I'll be happy). Ahhhh, I have many happy memories of traveling the States, even from Salt Lake City and Omaha, Nebraska... The grass is always greener, and your grass is pretty green too. You've just gotta look at it the right way.
9) Nothing said about America is untrue. America is everything and its opposite. Still, thanks for the kind sentiments and I desperately wish I were in a position to return the compliments. New Zealand is endlessly attractive to me, and I'd like to visit when life and finances agree. (Among the other places you've lived, I would also crazymuch wish to visit Japan.)
And I agree, America's Pacific Northwest is the corner that appeals to me most. The corridor between Portland, Oregon and Seattle is endlessly fascinating, Portland is one of my favorite cities, and several years ago I toured the Olympic Peninsula -- the northwestern-most protuberance of Washington State, which contains the only rainforest in the contiguous United States.
(And the spooks and the dreaming forests of the Northwest! Have you ever watched "Twin Peaks"?)
Your couple of acres on the Tawharanui peninsula sounds enchanting...and your life with Sarraz sounds terribly romantic. I always ask you such large questions -- but you're so good at responding -- that I can't help but ask another: could you share with us the story of Kiljoy and Sarraz? I don't mean anything secret or invasive, of course, but I'd love to hear the version of your meeting and courtship that you might tell around a dinner table, during drinks and reminiscences.
Ahhhh, it all began in a small hick town (probably actually passes as a small city) called Palmerston North, which is about 2 hours drive north of the capital Wellington. I was on tour as a live sound engineer for my friends' band Kitsch. We were playing an all ages venue in town called 'the Stomach' after which we would pack down and drive to Wellington to stay with a friend of the band named Sarah; I was told she was 'cool'. We arrived in 'Palmy' with support band and punk-rock reprobates Missing Teeth in tow and went about setting up the show, doing the normal pre show things: sound check etc, after which Sam (Kitsch vocalist) and I stood watching the many young girls sift into the venue after the doors had opened. Five minutes passed with us giggling about cute girls and then, BAM! This pale faced, blue eyed, blond haired angel walked through the door. No shit, my heart skipped and my eyes widened. She looked straight at me and smiled her big smile... I nudged Sam, and whispered something along the lines of 'Oh my god dude, check her out.' to which he replied 'Dude, that's our friend Sarah and you're not going there.'
Oh well, I'd just come out of a fairly abusive 18 month relationship anyway and I was just becoming happy being a single guy again, I didn't need another relationship right now anyway, or so I told myself. In between mixing the first and second bands of the evening I popped outside to smoke a ciggie and Sarah was standing there with her good friend Shelly drinking an awful concoction of cheap vodka and what you would call 'koolade'. I introduced myself to her and she said she knew who I was, I thanked her for letting us stay at her place for the weekend's shows and she said she was happy to help out. For a 19 year old she seemed pretty grounded and smart, I don't think I even knew her age at the time and might've guessed at 24 or 25; my age at the time. The show went on, it was ok I guess but I remember nothing special about it apart from the Missing Teeth vocalist getting a blowjob from a hideously underaged girl in their van whilst her friends yelled at her to stop and the rest of his band were laughing and filming it on their handy cam. We packed down, loaded our van and headed for Wellington at around midnight with Sarah traveling with us for directions to her house. On the way we stopped for gas and I made the bold move of usurping the front seat next to Sarah from my friend Dean because I wanted to talk with her some more. The joke goes: 'We started talking and we've never stopped', I think a few people in the van even told us to shut up. We found we shared many of the same ethics and ideals (vegetarianism, our internal war between humanism and misanthropy, etc.), we also shared a very dark sense of humour... I had a gig to play in Wellington myself that same night, DJing a friend's going away do at a club called Studio Nine. I was booked to play from 5am to 7am (believe it or not it was only the second to last slot of the 'night') and so as the rest of or party continued onto bed at Sarah's I was dropped of outside my venue, record crate in hand, with directions back to Sarah's place. The gig was fun enough but being a sober person at 3am at a drum'n'bass gig is a very weird experience although I was very used to it at the time. I played my slot, turned down many drinks and offers of assorted drugs and at about 7am I dragged myself hastily out of the club, into the late dawn and trundled off in search of Sarah's place.
That next day we all got up quite late, sometime well after midday, and started plotting some sort of late brunch. Sarah and I continued talking to each other and decided we'd make Thai noodles in a satay sauce for the whole crew and off we went together to the local asian food store to pick up some groceries. Whilst walking she quizzed me on my current relationship status and she seemed surprised and happy that I was single. She'd heard that I'd gone to the UK the year before with my girlfriend (with whom I'd had the aforementioned abusive relationship with) and had assumed we were still together. I told her the gory details of the dying days of that pairing as well as other things about myself and she gave me a brief history of herself too...
We made noodles, they were yum...
The Wellington gig that night with Kitsch was great. More shenanigans from the Missing Teeth guys in the way of starting a bonfire in the back carpark at Valve bar first using the empty beer boxes they had a multitude of in their van and then, once they'd run out of beer boxes, parts of the club's furniture (chairs and tables) and even parts of the club itself (door frame flushings etc.). The bar manager was furious. After the gig, we decided to pick up the gear the next day so we didn't have to double hand it and we all casually walked back to Sarah's place, a short 10 minutes away from the venue. Sarah and I walked back together talking the whole time, she mentioned she was a little cold so without even thinking I extended my arm out around her shoulders and held her close to me as we walked the rest of the way. I could tell she liked this. I also liked this.
Upon reaching her house we found two punk rock bands in the throes of post gig drinking and smoking. It only took an hour before everything calmed down and Sarah and I found ourselves cuddling next to each other on the couch in the lounge watching 'the Others' on the telly. I was gently caressing her bare arms, focusing more on our caressing her than the movie but we both pretended to be watching it for fear of seeming too keen... The movie finished and she aggressively dragged me up the stairs to her bedroom where we made love for hours (seriously, hours) until the sun started to come up and we started talking again. I told her she was perfect for me and we cuddled and talked and cuddled and talked. Finally I had to get up, shower and leave with the guys to pickup our gear and head back to Auckland. I promised her I'd be back in 2 weeks for another gig and would bring her my vegan chocolate cake I'd bragged about earlier.
2 weeks later, after talking on the phone every night, I arrived back at her house with the vegan chocolate cake. We made love some more, we talked some more and 7 months later (after many intercity visits from each other) she moved up to Auckland and we settled into our first house together. 5 years (to the day) after that first night in her bedroom I proposed to her on the beach at Byron Bay, Australia, and a year to the day after that we were married on Waiheke Island where we had been living.
I was love at first sight, but it was also so much more than that, and it only seems to be getting stronger.
10) Thank you for the beautiful story. My last question is intriguing and serious:
You seem to live in numerous distinct but intersecting communities. There's your music community, and the many communities you've been a part of in different cities and countries, and your marriage -- which is its own community of two. And of course there's SG, which seems to be a passionate but difficult community. I wonder: How do you (or do you?) resolve these competing areas of your life? Which community demands the most of you? Is any particular community the one in which you feel most yourself? And do you ever want to run away from all of them -- shut down the SG, quit the band -- and hike out with Sarraz to that dream Tawharanui farm?
Ahhh, yes. I do live in very segregated communities. The music communities I am a part of are even segregated themselves, for example: I've been a dance music producer / DJ of reasonable profile in the past and now play in a hardcore / punkrock / postpunk outfit and also a thrash metal band and all three of those have very separate scenes / communities and on top of that with the work I do as an audio engineer / producer leaves me with a very diverse collection of friends and acquaintances; that that's just music (although that's the biggest part of my life). Then there's the wife's friends, who are either people she's known since high school or people she met since through work. Many of them have become very very close friends of mine too, she has immaculate taste in humans. Then there's the old groups of friends I do try keeping in touch with: my old school mates, kids I used to skate with, etc. etc. The hardest thing about having so many people as 'friends' is that only very few are close enough for me to really bare my true self or soul with. Many of my band mates have no idea about my bisexual / pansexual tendencies (although I'm sure a few might suspect), only a few select friends know. Some are comfortable with it and some are a little less than comfortable, this could be because with these friends I've openly said that I wish sex and sexuality wasn't as much of a big deal everyone makes it out to be so we could all just fuck and have fun... That could be it... Maybe they're not uncomfortable about my sexuality per se, but more about their potential involvement in my sexuality...
If I could feel the most comfortable in any community it would probably be here on SG. Part of that comes through the partial anonymity that it provides, although I don't exactly try to hide myself here, but it's the mostly welcoming and supportive nature to positive lifestyle choices that I love here. I can be me and people can appreciate that.
As for quitting work and bands and running to the hills, sure on a weekly basis I dream of a simpler life with just Sarraz and myself. Both of us are workaholics and social flirters so we find our time occupied mostly with work, hobbies or hanging out with friends. We are getting better at making time for just the two of us though, after reading The Ethical Slut we realised that although there's absolutely nothing wrong with our relationship as it is right now, if we don't make an effort to do things together, just the two of us, that we may find ourselves in stagnant water further down the track. Besides, it's just a great excuse to spend some quality time together, not that you really need an excuse, but it's an excuse for an excuse I guess...
* * *
What a lovely conclusion to our interview! You're a wonderful writer, Kiljoy, and it's been a shiny honor to chat with you. Thank you so much for your kindness, trust, and openness!
VIEW 8 of 8 COMMENTS
I'm a wonderful writer? Compared to you, I am but a troll without a cause.