I remember getting a letter in the mail from someone named Jon Crosby when I was living in NYC working on a script asking if I would be involved with the artwork for the third VAST album. Okay buddy, have your manager call me... was my response. Strange how things work out
I had a chance to sit down with the beautiful Jon Crosby of VAST and talk about his upcoming third album NUDE (IN STORES TODAY!!) being the flagship release for 456 Entertainment, working with Carson Daly, being the first artist to sell his albums online at a price that competes with the major labels, and the future of the online world.
Check out the VAST website at REALVAST.COM
DebraJeanD: So is it true that you are the first band to sell a record online as mp3s at a substantially lower price than the cost of a CD?
Jon Crosby: Yes, I heard Ice-T had done it a month before us but Im not sureand I also heard some acts made songs available for free from their sites. But, there is a big difference between giving your music away for free, and selling your music at a cost that competes with the traditional way of selling music. The stars aligned in a certain way for us that made it possible for us to be in this position. Most bands are either unknown or they dont own their digital rights. A band like Creed is not legally allowed to sell 10 songs online for $3.99. They would have to get permission from their label, and there isnt one label on the planet that would let them. So we went for it and we were surprised by the results. The two downloads we did have been number two and three on the online chart for six monthswe were only beaten by Madonna who was selling her single. So Im very happy!
DJD: Why did you release Turquoise and Crimson as downloads of unfinished material off your upcoming album NUDE?
JC: For me, Ive always felt like VAST is about doing new and exciting things whenever I can. Thats what turns me on and keeps me going. Doing things no one has done before is exciting to me. You normally wouldnt be able to release unfinished material before the finished material because it wouldnt make sense in retail, but the internet is allowing completely new ways for artists to create and express themselvesfor those who are interested.
DJD: What are your views on file sharing and people now paying for your music online?
JC: VAST has become a much bigger band then we were a few years ago; I wouldnt have left Elektra Records if there wasnt an internet most likely. SuicideGirls has been a big inspiration as well. The internet has made it possible for the first time in history for people to communicate information to the masses on the same level that has been reserved exclusively for the rich and powerful. Its no longer just, you are either on MTV or you are in a van playing in front of three people, just in the same way that you are no longer in Playboy magazine or your own nude pictures are developed at a One hour photo shop. The irony is that while file sharing has caused record sales to go down, but its also allowed people to find out about things they normally would have never found out about. In a sense, its like a big radio station, but better because they always play your requests.
DJD: If you feel this way, why are you releasing a record in stores and why did you sign a deal with 456 Entertainment owned by Jonathon Rifkind and Carson Daly?
JC: I dont think that the music industry is over; I just think that its changing drastically. And I think because of the internet, it puts bands and labels in a unique position to do things differently and thus I dont feel like the label Im on can be described as major or independent. There are three key components of 456 that I like: I have creative control, they understand what Im about, and they have a progressive way of thinking about the music industry in general. Its not the end of the world; its the end of the world as we know it.
DJD: Seems that Carson Daly is an odd pairing with VAST, do you agree?
Its funny that you mention that. He actually was the first DJ in America to play Radiohead and he stood behind countless independent bands. A lot of that was before TRL; his show Last Call with Carson Daly, from what I understand, has been getting very high ratings, more so then David Letterman. The media has a tendency to try to pigeon-whole you no matter what you are and even more so when you are successful. Carson is just a regular guy, and he is a lot younger then people thinkI think he is just 30.
JC: Ive heard people call VAST, the biggest underground band in the world. Are you worried that if this record makes VAST more mainstream, you will loose credibility?
I grew up in a really small town south of the Oregon border, and a band had to be pretty big for me to even hear who they were. I had never even heard the words Joy Division or The Misfits until I moved to San Francisco until I was 17. There was no indie ethic where I came from, because it was too small to support a local music scene. In San Francisco, a lot of people become legends in their own minds, they are more concerned about being big fish in a small ponds, then competing on a national or international level. A lot of people in San Francisco in the late 90s when I started were rich. If their band was never heard, it didnt matter because their parents would buy them a house. I didnt have money to go to college; if music didnt work I would have been working at a laundry-mat. You never hear black people say they dont want to get too big. The only people who care about credibility are the people who dont have any in my book.
DJD: Whats in the CD player right now?
JC: I dont have a CD player; I only have a tape player and record player. Tapes and vinyl sound better. The Top Gun soundtrackits nice to listen to music from a time when people were happier.
DJD: Are you planning on touring anytime soon?
JC: We are starting a headlining tour at the end of March.
DJD: What are your thoughts on SuicideGirls?
JC: From the very beginning, I feel like I understood it on a level that a lot of people around me didnt. Calling SuicideGirls a porn site is like calling U2 a punk band. Very little serious literature has been written about what the Internet is becoming. There are a lot of dull, dry, boring books written in the mid 90s about cyberspace, but I just dont think those people get it. The Internet makes it possible to sell a lifestyle by actually selling the lifestyle. Before, people would try and sell you a car or a magazine or a jacket by selling you a lifestyle. I see Suicide Girls getting so much bigger that it will surprise everyone, which is my general feeling about the Internet. I want to add one thing, I feel like part of the success of Suicide Girls is that you have young people speaking directly to young people. I really do think that a lot of the mass media is disturbingly out of touch.
DJD: Do you have any favorite Suicide Girls?
JC: You, of course, Im totally in LOVE!
DJD: Ive noticed that you talk to a lot of fans online, does it drive you crazy? Why do you think other people dont do it as much?
JC: See, I think the word online is almost misleading. It implies a separate universe which the Internet sometimes feels like, [it is] but its actually our world. For me to refuse to talk to a fan online on AIM is the same as refusing to talk to a fan after a show who just wants to say hi. Ive met a lot of interesting people in general; I think that celebrities are scared of the internet [in general] which I think stems from the fact that music file sharing has become a scapegoat for what anyone, other then a complete idiot, would see as a much larger issue.
DJD: I want to get back to this file-sharing thing. Its funny you bring that up about it being a larger issue, because it really is. It always amazed me that people go on and on about the music files and forget the fact that truly all information is becoming something that any dick with one dollar for an hour in an internet cafe can have. People used to spend thousands of bucks on an education that can now be downloaded for nothing; its mind blowing.
JC: Yes, and it hasnt started yet, but it will. The reason music has been hit first, is the technology. Songs are small in file size. Everything else is just around the corner, in a year or two people will be able to download movies in just a few minutes. In a year or two there wont be any reason to go to CNN.com, because there will be hundreds of other sites that have the same information. The university can choose to not recognize an education if its a self taught internet education, but the rest of the world doesnt care. If two people go up for an application for a job and one is 26 with a masters degree and one is 20 and knows the same amount of information, the employer will just employ whoever costs less. But, its a lot easier to think of Lars Ulrich not being able to afford a private plane from file sharing, then it is to think of our government hiring Indian web design companies for cents on the dollar rather than the Americans with college educations. For some reason, its a lot easier to think of Peter Gabriel sweating as he looks at his bank statement, then it is to imagine a film not being made because there is no cash flow. Human beings are really good at denial.
There is no difference between words, art, music, and ideas when they have been stripped down to the language of ones and zeros; its all digital information. And I think you will find that the digital gods truly are colorblind. Why somebody would download music for free and not porn, a college textbook, or a movie, does not make sense. And in this case, like any revolution, the first people to suffer are never the upper class - the people that have the power to make things right, also have the money to not care. Its pretty obvious that the younger generation has been forgotten. We are living in the first generation in America that has a lower standard of living then our parents. Im not saying that you shouldnt throw a rock through a window at Wal-Mart; Im just saying that by doing that, you have no effect on the people who are profiting off of Wal-Mart that make you want to throw a rock through a window. And Im not saying that its wrong for people to file share music, all Im saying is that theyre wrong if they think music is the only thing that is going to be file shared.
Check out the VAST website at REALVAST.COM
I had a chance to sit down with the beautiful Jon Crosby of VAST and talk about his upcoming third album NUDE (IN STORES TODAY!!) being the flagship release for 456 Entertainment, working with Carson Daly, being the first artist to sell his albums online at a price that competes with the major labels, and the future of the online world.
Check out the VAST website at REALVAST.COM
DebraJeanD: So is it true that you are the first band to sell a record online as mp3s at a substantially lower price than the cost of a CD?
Jon Crosby: Yes, I heard Ice-T had done it a month before us but Im not sureand I also heard some acts made songs available for free from their sites. But, there is a big difference between giving your music away for free, and selling your music at a cost that competes with the traditional way of selling music. The stars aligned in a certain way for us that made it possible for us to be in this position. Most bands are either unknown or they dont own their digital rights. A band like Creed is not legally allowed to sell 10 songs online for $3.99. They would have to get permission from their label, and there isnt one label on the planet that would let them. So we went for it and we were surprised by the results. The two downloads we did have been number two and three on the online chart for six monthswe were only beaten by Madonna who was selling her single. So Im very happy!
DJD: Why did you release Turquoise and Crimson as downloads of unfinished material off your upcoming album NUDE?
JC: For me, Ive always felt like VAST is about doing new and exciting things whenever I can. Thats what turns me on and keeps me going. Doing things no one has done before is exciting to me. You normally wouldnt be able to release unfinished material before the finished material because it wouldnt make sense in retail, but the internet is allowing completely new ways for artists to create and express themselvesfor those who are interested.
DJD: What are your views on file sharing and people now paying for your music online?
JC: VAST has become a much bigger band then we were a few years ago; I wouldnt have left Elektra Records if there wasnt an internet most likely. SuicideGirls has been a big inspiration as well. The internet has made it possible for the first time in history for people to communicate information to the masses on the same level that has been reserved exclusively for the rich and powerful. Its no longer just, you are either on MTV or you are in a van playing in front of three people, just in the same way that you are no longer in Playboy magazine or your own nude pictures are developed at a One hour photo shop. The irony is that while file sharing has caused record sales to go down, but its also allowed people to find out about things they normally would have never found out about. In a sense, its like a big radio station, but better because they always play your requests.
DJD: If you feel this way, why are you releasing a record in stores and why did you sign a deal with 456 Entertainment owned by Jonathon Rifkind and Carson Daly?
JC: I dont think that the music industry is over; I just think that its changing drastically. And I think because of the internet, it puts bands and labels in a unique position to do things differently and thus I dont feel like the label Im on can be described as major or independent. There are three key components of 456 that I like: I have creative control, they understand what Im about, and they have a progressive way of thinking about the music industry in general. Its not the end of the world; its the end of the world as we know it.
DJD: Seems that Carson Daly is an odd pairing with VAST, do you agree?
Its funny that you mention that. He actually was the first DJ in America to play Radiohead and he stood behind countless independent bands. A lot of that was before TRL; his show Last Call with Carson Daly, from what I understand, has been getting very high ratings, more so then David Letterman. The media has a tendency to try to pigeon-whole you no matter what you are and even more so when you are successful. Carson is just a regular guy, and he is a lot younger then people thinkI think he is just 30.
JC: Ive heard people call VAST, the biggest underground band in the world. Are you worried that if this record makes VAST more mainstream, you will loose credibility?
I grew up in a really small town south of the Oregon border, and a band had to be pretty big for me to even hear who they were. I had never even heard the words Joy Division or The Misfits until I moved to San Francisco until I was 17. There was no indie ethic where I came from, because it was too small to support a local music scene. In San Francisco, a lot of people become legends in their own minds, they are more concerned about being big fish in a small ponds, then competing on a national or international level. A lot of people in San Francisco in the late 90s when I started were rich. If their band was never heard, it didnt matter because their parents would buy them a house. I didnt have money to go to college; if music didnt work I would have been working at a laundry-mat. You never hear black people say they dont want to get too big. The only people who care about credibility are the people who dont have any in my book.
DJD: Whats in the CD player right now?
JC: I dont have a CD player; I only have a tape player and record player. Tapes and vinyl sound better. The Top Gun soundtrackits nice to listen to music from a time when people were happier.
DJD: Are you planning on touring anytime soon?
JC: We are starting a headlining tour at the end of March.
DJD: What are your thoughts on SuicideGirls?
JC: From the very beginning, I feel like I understood it on a level that a lot of people around me didnt. Calling SuicideGirls a porn site is like calling U2 a punk band. Very little serious literature has been written about what the Internet is becoming. There are a lot of dull, dry, boring books written in the mid 90s about cyberspace, but I just dont think those people get it. The Internet makes it possible to sell a lifestyle by actually selling the lifestyle. Before, people would try and sell you a car or a magazine or a jacket by selling you a lifestyle. I see Suicide Girls getting so much bigger that it will surprise everyone, which is my general feeling about the Internet. I want to add one thing, I feel like part of the success of Suicide Girls is that you have young people speaking directly to young people. I really do think that a lot of the mass media is disturbingly out of touch.
DJD: Do you have any favorite Suicide Girls?
JC: You, of course, Im totally in LOVE!
DJD: Ive noticed that you talk to a lot of fans online, does it drive you crazy? Why do you think other people dont do it as much?
JC: See, I think the word online is almost misleading. It implies a separate universe which the Internet sometimes feels like, [it is] but its actually our world. For me to refuse to talk to a fan online on AIM is the same as refusing to talk to a fan after a show who just wants to say hi. Ive met a lot of interesting people in general; I think that celebrities are scared of the internet [in general] which I think stems from the fact that music file sharing has become a scapegoat for what anyone, other then a complete idiot, would see as a much larger issue.
DJD: I want to get back to this file-sharing thing. Its funny you bring that up about it being a larger issue, because it really is. It always amazed me that people go on and on about the music files and forget the fact that truly all information is becoming something that any dick with one dollar for an hour in an internet cafe can have. People used to spend thousands of bucks on an education that can now be downloaded for nothing; its mind blowing.
JC: Yes, and it hasnt started yet, but it will. The reason music has been hit first, is the technology. Songs are small in file size. Everything else is just around the corner, in a year or two people will be able to download movies in just a few minutes. In a year or two there wont be any reason to go to CNN.com, because there will be hundreds of other sites that have the same information. The university can choose to not recognize an education if its a self taught internet education, but the rest of the world doesnt care. If two people go up for an application for a job and one is 26 with a masters degree and one is 20 and knows the same amount of information, the employer will just employ whoever costs less. But, its a lot easier to think of Lars Ulrich not being able to afford a private plane from file sharing, then it is to think of our government hiring Indian web design companies for cents on the dollar rather than the Americans with college educations. For some reason, its a lot easier to think of Peter Gabriel sweating as he looks at his bank statement, then it is to imagine a film not being made because there is no cash flow. Human beings are really good at denial.
There is no difference between words, art, music, and ideas when they have been stripped down to the language of ones and zeros; its all digital information. And I think you will find that the digital gods truly are colorblind. Why somebody would download music for free and not porn, a college textbook, or a movie, does not make sense. And in this case, like any revolution, the first people to suffer are never the upper class - the people that have the power to make things right, also have the money to not care. Its pretty obvious that the younger generation has been forgotten. We are living in the first generation in America that has a lower standard of living then our parents. Im not saying that you shouldnt throw a rock through a window at Wal-Mart; Im just saying that by doing that, you have no effect on the people who are profiting off of Wal-Mart that make you want to throw a rock through a window. And Im not saying that its wrong for people to file share music, all Im saying is that theyre wrong if they think music is the only thing that is going to be file shared.
Check out the VAST website at REALVAST.COM
VIEW 25 of 35 COMMENTS
zoomusikgrl:
is this interview really 3 years old??? holy crap. well, i've been into vast for ages and i think each new album is better than the last. i just saw them last month and they were *amazing* live. yay vast! 
kthrose:
SG has some of the most enjoyable interviews on the internet. Handsdown.