Joe Pistone is best known as the man who broke the Bonanno crime family. As an undercover agent known to the mob as Donnie Brasco, Pistone infiltrated the family for six years. The evidence Pistone collected over the years led to the convictions of over 100 individual Mafiasos. Pistone eventually wrote that story in the book Donnie Brasco which was turned into a feature film starring Al Pacino and Johnny Depp.
Since then Pistone has branched into working on feature films, television and even produced a one man show based on his book, The Way of the Wiseguy. Pistone has also put the capper on the entire Donnie Brasco affair with the book Donnie Brasco Unfinished Business.
Buy Donnie Brasco Unfinished Business
Daniel Robert Epstein: What are you up to today?
Joe Pistone: Im working on a couple TV shows that Im trying to get sold and getting ready to outline another book and doing a little restructuring on a one-man show that I had running for awhile.
DRE: Can you talk about any of the TV shows?
Joe: Ive got a script. Its nonfiction. Its about a female that spent 20 years as a goomah to a top wise guy in New York City. Lifetime bought it. Were just finishing it up and hopefully theyll greenlight it.
DRE: Is that something you created or just something youre working on?
Joe: Somebody came to me and my partner Leo Rossi and told us this story. It was hard to comprehend because youre dealing with a female and normally females dont get involved to this extent. So we sat down, talked to the real woman over a period of a couple days. Being that I was in the life for all those years, I found that she was on the money. She was telling the truth. So we developed it and had a script written.
DRE: Who wrote the script?
Joe: Shelley Evans.
DRE: Whats the other TV show youre working on?
Joe: It is called Regarding Undercover. That hasnt been sold yet. Were talking to a couple networks, but Im not at liberty to say which ones. Its a show about undercover agents.
DRE: So youll be writer, producer and consultant on these shows?
Joe: Yeah.
DRE: It sounds like youre pretty darn settled into the film and TV world. I know youve been doing it for a long time.
Joe: Yeah. After 28 years in law enforcement, a lot of times you figure theres nothing else you can do. Its a long time to be in one profession. Then you find out there are other things you can do. I like it. Ive been fortunate that Ive met up with some good people in the business. I dont know if the name Leo Rossi means anything to you.
DRE: Sure, hes great. He was in Relentless.
Joe: Thats exactly right. Also Bobby Moresco who won the Oscar last year for co-writing Crash.
DRE: Right, I was on the set of his TV show, The Black Donnellys.
Joe: Were you really?
DRE: Yeah. Its filmed in Queens.
Joe: Im hoping it does well.
DRE: Are you working on that?
Joe: No. But Bobby and I have worked on a few things. I had a TV show in 2000 called Falcone. I worked with Bobby on that. Leo and I produced a movie Bobby directed called 10th & Wolf.
So youre in New York?
DRE: Yeah we just moved to Queens.
Joe: I have a book signing in New York in February.
DRE: That brings up an interesting point. So youre going to be really doing book signings. I asked your book publicist for a picture of you and they sent me a surveillance photo.
Joe: I really dont have photographs to be honest with you. Im not the kind of guy that just takes pictures of stuff. That was a surveillance shot that the FBI took and they didnt know who I was and I didnt know that they were taking it. But with the book signings, you do what you have to do. Ive never really ducked anything. I just take care of myself. Ive done a couple signings where a couple guys got vocal, but after you stare them down, its all false.
DRE: But I read youre not in as much danger anymore. That there was a sitdown between the FBI and the mob and they rescinded the
Joe: They never rescinded it but when [Bonanno boss] Joey Massino was still the boss, the New York guys went to him and he said, Look. As long as Im the boss, nobodys going to hurt him. You know what you worry about? Its not the hardcore guy. Its the cowboy, the wannabe, somebody that says, Hey. Im going to take out Donnie Brasco. Thats the guy that youre concerned about and theyre going to kick him in the ass after it happens.
DRE: But youre a pretty tough guy, are you worried about anything like that?
Joe: No. Look, what are you going to do? You going to stay in the house and not come out and not earn a living? Its an old saying, but whats the worse thing that can happen to you? They can kill you. What are you going to do? You got to be who you are and get it on.
DRE: I read that Unfinished Business was originally called Donnie Brasco II.
Joe: That was the working title but the actual title is Unfinished Business.
DRE: So does Unfinished Business take place directly after the events of the first book?
Joe: Yeah, it picks up with the trials. Then it goes into stuff I did when I was undercover that I couldnt reveal in the first book because of the upcoming trials. Then it goes how the mafia declined, work overseas in foreign countries and how the Bonanno family declined. Its stuff that couldnt be brought out in the first book until all the trials were settled and all the appeals were adjudicated. Guys are dead. Guys have done their time in jail. There are no more legalities involved.
DRE: In the first book and the Donnie Brasco movie, it seemed like you had some affection for those guys.
Joe: Well the movie made it a little rosier than what it was. They have to take some liberties and show that the hero isnt as stone cold as the guy hes dealing with. You have to remember that I was with [Benjamin] Lefty [Ruggerio], [Dominick] Sonny Black [Napolitano] and guys in the crew 365 days a year. Youre with them everyday. Youre with them on holidays. Youre over at their house for dinner. You meet their wives, their kids. So unless you have no heart at all, you find something in the guy that is a plus. Lefty was a stone cold gangster, a 24 hour a day gangster. The guy had killed people but he had a grandson that he loved. The same thing with Sonny but you could sit and talk to Sonny about other things besides the mafia. Sonny loved his kids. You do have some bond with these guys but you never forget who you are. A good undercover agent does not forget who he is and what his mission is. Youre conducting an investigation to gather evidence to put people in jail that you know are gangsters. If you have that mental toughness, then youre going to be successful.
DRE: Do you feel like this puts the cap on the whole Donnie Brasco situation?
Joe: As far as the six years of undercover, yeah. Is there other stuff thats going to come? Sure. Im probably going to do another novel on the Donnie Brasco character but this caps off that operation.
DRE: I read that you said that your six year undercover operation couldnt have happened before you did it or since then.
Joe: Probably not. Definitely not now because theyre not going to let an undercover go that long by himself. Since my operation, new policies have been implemented regarding undercovers and how long an operation is going to go on.
DRE: But your operation was so successful!
Joe: Thats all new policy that has been put in place by the FBI regarding undercover operations. But when I was doing it, it was new so there wasnt a handbook on policy. There wasnt an attorney generals guidelines on undercover operations.
DRE: In Unfinished Business you also talk about working on the movie.
Joe: Yeah, I got a little chapter in there about working with Johnny [Depp].
DRE: How was it having him play you?
Joe: Hes a great actor and I think we might be about the same in looks, Im just a little bit older than he is [laughs]. But kidding aside, besides being a great actor, youre talking about a great individual, a great person. Youre talking about a guy thats gracious, a guy thats polite, a guy thats honest, a guy thats straightforward, a guy that wants to get his craft to perfection. I cant say enough about this kid. Hes 40 years old but to me hes a kid. I still keep in touch with him and his family. Hes finally getting his due as an actor and Im proud that Donnie Brasco was really his first mainstream role.
DRE: I know that Al Pacino is someone thats idolized by cops and crooks, by everybody actually.
Joe: Als also very nice. I got along with Al. He showed me a lot of respect.
I could see youre out with these guys and youre in a restaurant and people come over and after awhile it gets to be a pain in the ass. Youre out there with Johnny having dinner and the poor guy cant even get a mouthful. Hes the type of guy who doesnt turn anybody away. Ive been out with him a lot, hung out with him here, in France, in England and the guy never turns anybody away. Hes unbelievable. He doesnt travel with 22 bodyguards like most of these actors. If somebody comes up to him, hell stop, chat, sign an autograph. The guys amazing.
DRE: Tell me a little bit about the one man show, The Way of the Wiseguy.
Joe: We had a very successful six week run in Chicago and its based on my last book. Leo Rossi plays me and its one day in the life of Donnie Brasco or Joe Pistone working undercover. Its the day I was called to a sitdown because I had a beef with a guy by the name of Tony Mira. Its all that day leading up to the sitdown.
DRE: I read that youre still married to the same woman.
Joe: Yeah.
DRE: She must be pretty great.
Joe: Shes like a saint to be married to me.
DRE: How do you two get along now?
Joe: We get along terrific. The movie showed me home more often. I didnt get home but like once every six months for maybe for a night or two. So maybe thats the secret. You dont see her but once every six months.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Since then Pistone has branched into working on feature films, television and even produced a one man show based on his book, The Way of the Wiseguy. Pistone has also put the capper on the entire Donnie Brasco affair with the book Donnie Brasco Unfinished Business.
Buy Donnie Brasco Unfinished Business
Daniel Robert Epstein: What are you up to today?
Joe Pistone: Im working on a couple TV shows that Im trying to get sold and getting ready to outline another book and doing a little restructuring on a one-man show that I had running for awhile.
DRE: Can you talk about any of the TV shows?
Joe: Ive got a script. Its nonfiction. Its about a female that spent 20 years as a goomah to a top wise guy in New York City. Lifetime bought it. Were just finishing it up and hopefully theyll greenlight it.
DRE: Is that something you created or just something youre working on?
Joe: Somebody came to me and my partner Leo Rossi and told us this story. It was hard to comprehend because youre dealing with a female and normally females dont get involved to this extent. So we sat down, talked to the real woman over a period of a couple days. Being that I was in the life for all those years, I found that she was on the money. She was telling the truth. So we developed it and had a script written.
DRE: Who wrote the script?
Joe: Shelley Evans.
DRE: Whats the other TV show youre working on?
Joe: It is called Regarding Undercover. That hasnt been sold yet. Were talking to a couple networks, but Im not at liberty to say which ones. Its a show about undercover agents.
DRE: So youll be writer, producer and consultant on these shows?
Joe: Yeah.
DRE: It sounds like youre pretty darn settled into the film and TV world. I know youve been doing it for a long time.
Joe: Yeah. After 28 years in law enforcement, a lot of times you figure theres nothing else you can do. Its a long time to be in one profession. Then you find out there are other things you can do. I like it. Ive been fortunate that Ive met up with some good people in the business. I dont know if the name Leo Rossi means anything to you.
DRE: Sure, hes great. He was in Relentless.
Joe: Thats exactly right. Also Bobby Moresco who won the Oscar last year for co-writing Crash.
DRE: Right, I was on the set of his TV show, The Black Donnellys.
Joe: Were you really?
DRE: Yeah. Its filmed in Queens.
Joe: Im hoping it does well.
DRE: Are you working on that?
Joe: No. But Bobby and I have worked on a few things. I had a TV show in 2000 called Falcone. I worked with Bobby on that. Leo and I produced a movie Bobby directed called 10th & Wolf.
So youre in New York?
DRE: Yeah we just moved to Queens.
Joe: I have a book signing in New York in February.
DRE: That brings up an interesting point. So youre going to be really doing book signings. I asked your book publicist for a picture of you and they sent me a surveillance photo.
Joe: I really dont have photographs to be honest with you. Im not the kind of guy that just takes pictures of stuff. That was a surveillance shot that the FBI took and they didnt know who I was and I didnt know that they were taking it. But with the book signings, you do what you have to do. Ive never really ducked anything. I just take care of myself. Ive done a couple signings where a couple guys got vocal, but after you stare them down, its all false.
DRE: But I read youre not in as much danger anymore. That there was a sitdown between the FBI and the mob and they rescinded the
Joe: They never rescinded it but when [Bonanno boss] Joey Massino was still the boss, the New York guys went to him and he said, Look. As long as Im the boss, nobodys going to hurt him. You know what you worry about? Its not the hardcore guy. Its the cowboy, the wannabe, somebody that says, Hey. Im going to take out Donnie Brasco. Thats the guy that youre concerned about and theyre going to kick him in the ass after it happens.
DRE: But youre a pretty tough guy, are you worried about anything like that?
Joe: No. Look, what are you going to do? You going to stay in the house and not come out and not earn a living? Its an old saying, but whats the worse thing that can happen to you? They can kill you. What are you going to do? You got to be who you are and get it on.
DRE: I read that Unfinished Business was originally called Donnie Brasco II.
Joe: That was the working title but the actual title is Unfinished Business.
DRE: So does Unfinished Business take place directly after the events of the first book?
Joe: Yeah, it picks up with the trials. Then it goes into stuff I did when I was undercover that I couldnt reveal in the first book because of the upcoming trials. Then it goes how the mafia declined, work overseas in foreign countries and how the Bonanno family declined. Its stuff that couldnt be brought out in the first book until all the trials were settled and all the appeals were adjudicated. Guys are dead. Guys have done their time in jail. There are no more legalities involved.
DRE: In the first book and the Donnie Brasco movie, it seemed like you had some affection for those guys.
Joe: Well the movie made it a little rosier than what it was. They have to take some liberties and show that the hero isnt as stone cold as the guy hes dealing with. You have to remember that I was with [Benjamin] Lefty [Ruggerio], [Dominick] Sonny Black [Napolitano] and guys in the crew 365 days a year. Youre with them everyday. Youre with them on holidays. Youre over at their house for dinner. You meet their wives, their kids. So unless you have no heart at all, you find something in the guy that is a plus. Lefty was a stone cold gangster, a 24 hour a day gangster. The guy had killed people but he had a grandson that he loved. The same thing with Sonny but you could sit and talk to Sonny about other things besides the mafia. Sonny loved his kids. You do have some bond with these guys but you never forget who you are. A good undercover agent does not forget who he is and what his mission is. Youre conducting an investigation to gather evidence to put people in jail that you know are gangsters. If you have that mental toughness, then youre going to be successful.
DRE: Do you feel like this puts the cap on the whole Donnie Brasco situation?
Joe: As far as the six years of undercover, yeah. Is there other stuff thats going to come? Sure. Im probably going to do another novel on the Donnie Brasco character but this caps off that operation.
DRE: I read that you said that your six year undercover operation couldnt have happened before you did it or since then.
Joe: Probably not. Definitely not now because theyre not going to let an undercover go that long by himself. Since my operation, new policies have been implemented regarding undercovers and how long an operation is going to go on.
DRE: But your operation was so successful!
Joe: Thats all new policy that has been put in place by the FBI regarding undercover operations. But when I was doing it, it was new so there wasnt a handbook on policy. There wasnt an attorney generals guidelines on undercover operations.
DRE: In Unfinished Business you also talk about working on the movie.
Joe: Yeah, I got a little chapter in there about working with Johnny [Depp].
DRE: How was it having him play you?
Joe: Hes a great actor and I think we might be about the same in looks, Im just a little bit older than he is [laughs]. But kidding aside, besides being a great actor, youre talking about a great individual, a great person. Youre talking about a guy thats gracious, a guy thats polite, a guy thats honest, a guy thats straightforward, a guy that wants to get his craft to perfection. I cant say enough about this kid. Hes 40 years old but to me hes a kid. I still keep in touch with him and his family. Hes finally getting his due as an actor and Im proud that Donnie Brasco was really his first mainstream role.
DRE: I know that Al Pacino is someone thats idolized by cops and crooks, by everybody actually.
Joe: Als also very nice. I got along with Al. He showed me a lot of respect.
I could see youre out with these guys and youre in a restaurant and people come over and after awhile it gets to be a pain in the ass. Youre out there with Johnny having dinner and the poor guy cant even get a mouthful. Hes the type of guy who doesnt turn anybody away. Ive been out with him a lot, hung out with him here, in France, in England and the guy never turns anybody away. Hes unbelievable. He doesnt travel with 22 bodyguards like most of these actors. If somebody comes up to him, hell stop, chat, sign an autograph. The guys amazing.
DRE: Tell me a little bit about the one man show, The Way of the Wiseguy.
Joe: We had a very successful six week run in Chicago and its based on my last book. Leo Rossi plays me and its one day in the life of Donnie Brasco or Joe Pistone working undercover. Its the day I was called to a sitdown because I had a beef with a guy by the name of Tony Mira. Its all that day leading up to the sitdown.
DRE: I read that youre still married to the same woman.
Joe: Yeah.
DRE: She must be pretty great.
Joe: Shes like a saint to be married to me.
DRE: How do you two get along now?
Joe: We get along terrific. The movie showed me home more often. I didnt get home but like once every six months for maybe for a night or two. So maybe thats the secret. You dont see her but once every six months.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 4 of 4 COMMENTS
degenetron:
fitzsimmons:
Awesome interview.