Film director Michael Apted is such an anomaly in Hollywood. He careens from big budget films such as The World Is Not Enough to smaller films like Enigma. But always, without fail, every seven years Apted puts together another UP film. In 1964 a group of seven year old children were interviewed about their lives and Apted was a researcher on that film. Since then Apted has taken on the directing reins and every seven years he gets together with as many of the original people as possible and interviews them again. Now 49 UP has just been released along with all the UP films in a big DVD box set.
Buy the DVD set of the UP series
Daniel Robert Epstein: Is there ever any doubt in your mind that you always do another UP film?
Michael Apted: I think so. It seems to chug along pretty well so Ill keep it going as long as Im above ground and as long as I get enough of them to do it.
DRE: So there were 12 of the original people in 49 UP.
MA: Yeah, 12 out of 14 originals so thats pretty good.
DRE: How many of the originals would there have to not be there for you not to do one?
MA: If I had only half of them I think I would have to think about it. It really diminishes a film when people drop out. So if half of them dropped out Id probably bag it. It also depends who drops out.
DRE: Obviously the theme of the movies has changed over the years, what do you feel the group represents now?
MA: I think its a universal issue of dealing with the things we all have to deal with I dont think its any more complicated than that. It started out as something else, as much more of a political document about the English class system but over the years that got taken over by the strengths of the characters and I think its the characters that drive it. Its the issues that these characters are facing which I think are beyond borders because the films are successful outside England where people have no working knowledge of the English caste system. So it must really have an appeal beyond its roots and I can only think its the universality of what it deals with. With all of us getting older and having kids and grandkids and jobs and money.
DRE: Has the theme of the English class system gone by the wayside because the English class system has changed so much?
MA: I always felt that had I started the film say ten years later, it would be somewhat different. The class system has definitely softened its grip. It is still there and I think it still underpins the lives of the people who I made the film about. But it has less of an influence on the generation of people who were born much later. Education systems open up and job opportunities open up and the class system is, on the whole, more fluid than it was. It isnt quite that suffocating than it was when I did my film. So I think its a mixture of the fact that life has changed over the last half century. English class has changed and also the fact that the interests in the film are more specifically personal than they are political.
DRE: Obviously the films are very personal for you but what do you get out of doing it besides it being an artistic endeavor?
MA: A lot of stress and strain, frankly. It is pretty hard work and its hard work to keep them all in the film. I find that the interviews get easier in one sense and more difficult in another. People are much more prepared to talk and be more forthcoming. The relationship between us is more intimate than its ever been because I think the age difference as we get older gets smaller and smaller. So our relationship is much more emotional which makes it harder for me. This last one was pretty exhausting so although theyre more willing to talk and though the talk is easier I think it takes more out of us to do it.
DRE: Has anyone thought about doing anything fictionalized based on the group?
MA: I think its come up. I dont know how you begin to do it because truth is stranger than fiction. You could barely invent some of these stories weve seen. Certainly every time one comes up the idea gets booted around and I just need to think of a way to do it.
DRE: Is it difficult to present the group in a new and fresh way?
MA: Well a bit of its there but I think there is some craft in it. One thing is to try and clear your mind of the previous film when you start each one. To not just make it a follow up on the last one but try and break fresh ground with them and see what theyre thinking about. To get a different perspective from them. If you look at all the different films in the box set they all look quite different. They all have a different tone to them and you never know what that tone is going to be until you cut the film together. But I think the way to guarantee that theyre not just a rehash of the old ones is to get rid of the preconceptions, not to just ask follow ups to the previous film and really attack the issue as though you were seeing them for the first time. Its hard to do because there are themes throughout their lives that youre not going to let go of. But its good to have an open mind as you approach each film and not have a series of expectations or prejudices about them.
DRE: Whats harder, making the UP films or dealing with the Broccolis on a Bond film?
MA: Well its a different thing all together working with the Broccolis on a Bond film. That is a business arrangement. This is an emotional arrangement. I need something from them and they dont really need me. So they are in a very powerful position and they do like to torture me and give me a hard time and say they dont want to do it. A good number of them find it difficult and awkward and vaguely embarrassing in an English way and perhaps would rather if I didnt knock on the door every seven years. Once we get on with it, then its not that difficult. But it is a whole lot easier than dealing with James Bond, I can tell you.
DRE: How does doing these documentaries affect the way that you work with actors in fiction film?
MA: I think I have a documentary spirit. I approach all the fiction films in a documentary way. I find truth is stranger than fiction. So if Im doing a movie then I like to get into the research of it and the reality on which its supposedly based. I find that very helpful. Even with the Bond I found it helpful. I approach everything with a spirit of a documentarian with an inquiring mind whos prepared to look into stuff and not just sit in a room and fictionalize stuff.
DRE: Was getting John back for 49 UP difficult?
MA: Well you cant cajole him. I think he saw that this was probably another good time to push his Bulgarian charity. I dont mind, whatever it takes.
DRE: Whats interesting is when the whole series ends, its going to be something that will looked at for generations to come as a portrait of people in this time period.
MA: Well I hope so, not just the peoples lives but the society. I hope it would exist as a social history of England since the 1960s. I hope it will be a bit more than just a portrait of 14 people. I hope that the portraits have a wider resonance but who knows, you cant judge what history is going to say about them but clearly its a pretty unique documentation of a period of history.
DRE: Which member of the series has surprised you the most over the years?
MA: Obviously Neils life has been a roller coaster and Nick the country boy with his little Wellington boots at seven is now is a professor at a university in America. I think everybody is a surprise. I suppose the least surprising were the most empowered. Those who had their lives or at least their education mapped out for them. I suppose they havent been really surprising. They havent really gone against expectations or anything. Theyve all done pretty well but most of them have surprises and changes in their lives. I think you predict peoples lives at your peril.
DRE: I know you directed the documentary Married in America, are you doing another one?
MA: Ive just done the second one. The second one is coming out in February next year.
DRE: Is that something else you want to keep going on with?
MA: Yeah. It grew out of this series because I always thought the marriages were so interesting so I thought, Why not do one about marriage. So these things get their own balance of men and women in it. Yes, Im pleased with it. Some interesting things have happened to people so I think you want to see whats going to happen next so its something Im very optimistic about.
DRE: Are there other topics you want to tackle?
MA: No, I dont think so. Not in a longitudinal sense. Im 65 so Im not a young man. I have to be a bit realistic about this but maybe Ive got another decade in me and I could do another couple of marriage and another one or two of the art films before I lose my mind. But I dont think I want to start anything new on that because if you do it properly its very time consuming.
DRE: Has anyone ever asked you to consult on a reality show or help create on?
MA: No [laughs] they havent, funnily enough. Actually perhaps they should and now I feel bad about it. No ones ever asked me that question before and no one has ever asked me to consult on a reality show.
DRE: Would you have any interest in revisiting the people in the UP series in between or do you feel like seven years is the right time period?
MA: I think that seven is good but if there were very exceptional circumstances I would. Ive only done it once and that was when Bruce got married and Neil was showing up at the wedding and I couldnt let that pass by but otherwise Ive been pretty strict about keeping the seven year gap.
DRE: I read your wife created the show What About Brian and that you directed an episode.
MA: Yes she told me I had to do one. What do you say? No? I did episode four.
DRE: How do you like doing TV?
MA: Ive done it aoccasionally in America. Its very tough because its a brutal schedule. I enjoy it though because its fast and theres a good buzz to it and the people are usually nice. But its not something one wants to make a living with. I just like doing different things too. It changes the rhythm around. It is good for the cardiovascular.
DRE: Im a big comedy fan so I wanted to ask you about working with John Belushi, not that Continental Divide was a comedy. I know that every director thats ever worked with John Belushi says that besides being one of the funniest people he is also a fantastic dramatic actor.
MA: Id certainly join that club. I thought so. I think we missed a lot by his early demise. I think he could have been a really terrific character actor. Maybe I was asking a bit much playing a romantic leading man but I think he would have had a big career as a straight actor.
DRE: Yeah, I think he could have been like Robert De Niro at this point.
MA: He could, he could.
DRE: Was he someone that you wanted to work with or did the studio ask you to work with him?
MA: I had done Coal Miners Daughter and he had done Blues Brothers. I got to know him a bit through John Landis. I think he was sizing me up a bit and then when the script came in for Continental Divide, they came to me with it and he asked me would I be interested in it. So that was pretty smashing. I did think he was great, who didnt, but it was really because of the fact that we were both at Universal together over a period of a year or so that I knew him slightly.
DRE: What is your next feature?
MA: It is called Amazing Grace is a historical British film about the passing of the Anti-Slave Trade Act with Albert Finney, Ioan Gruffudd and various good souls.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Buy the DVD set of the UP series
Daniel Robert Epstein: Is there ever any doubt in your mind that you always do another UP film?
Michael Apted: I think so. It seems to chug along pretty well so Ill keep it going as long as Im above ground and as long as I get enough of them to do it.
DRE: So there were 12 of the original people in 49 UP.
MA: Yeah, 12 out of 14 originals so thats pretty good.
DRE: How many of the originals would there have to not be there for you not to do one?
MA: If I had only half of them I think I would have to think about it. It really diminishes a film when people drop out. So if half of them dropped out Id probably bag it. It also depends who drops out.
DRE: Obviously the theme of the movies has changed over the years, what do you feel the group represents now?
MA: I think its a universal issue of dealing with the things we all have to deal with I dont think its any more complicated than that. It started out as something else, as much more of a political document about the English class system but over the years that got taken over by the strengths of the characters and I think its the characters that drive it. Its the issues that these characters are facing which I think are beyond borders because the films are successful outside England where people have no working knowledge of the English caste system. So it must really have an appeal beyond its roots and I can only think its the universality of what it deals with. With all of us getting older and having kids and grandkids and jobs and money.
DRE: Has the theme of the English class system gone by the wayside because the English class system has changed so much?
MA: I always felt that had I started the film say ten years later, it would be somewhat different. The class system has definitely softened its grip. It is still there and I think it still underpins the lives of the people who I made the film about. But it has less of an influence on the generation of people who were born much later. Education systems open up and job opportunities open up and the class system is, on the whole, more fluid than it was. It isnt quite that suffocating than it was when I did my film. So I think its a mixture of the fact that life has changed over the last half century. English class has changed and also the fact that the interests in the film are more specifically personal than they are political.
DRE: Obviously the films are very personal for you but what do you get out of doing it besides it being an artistic endeavor?
MA: A lot of stress and strain, frankly. It is pretty hard work and its hard work to keep them all in the film. I find that the interviews get easier in one sense and more difficult in another. People are much more prepared to talk and be more forthcoming. The relationship between us is more intimate than its ever been because I think the age difference as we get older gets smaller and smaller. So our relationship is much more emotional which makes it harder for me. This last one was pretty exhausting so although theyre more willing to talk and though the talk is easier I think it takes more out of us to do it.
DRE: Has anyone thought about doing anything fictionalized based on the group?
MA: I think its come up. I dont know how you begin to do it because truth is stranger than fiction. You could barely invent some of these stories weve seen. Certainly every time one comes up the idea gets booted around and I just need to think of a way to do it.
DRE: Is it difficult to present the group in a new and fresh way?
MA: Well a bit of its there but I think there is some craft in it. One thing is to try and clear your mind of the previous film when you start each one. To not just make it a follow up on the last one but try and break fresh ground with them and see what theyre thinking about. To get a different perspective from them. If you look at all the different films in the box set they all look quite different. They all have a different tone to them and you never know what that tone is going to be until you cut the film together. But I think the way to guarantee that theyre not just a rehash of the old ones is to get rid of the preconceptions, not to just ask follow ups to the previous film and really attack the issue as though you were seeing them for the first time. Its hard to do because there are themes throughout their lives that youre not going to let go of. But its good to have an open mind as you approach each film and not have a series of expectations or prejudices about them.
DRE: Whats harder, making the UP films or dealing with the Broccolis on a Bond film?
MA: Well its a different thing all together working with the Broccolis on a Bond film. That is a business arrangement. This is an emotional arrangement. I need something from them and they dont really need me. So they are in a very powerful position and they do like to torture me and give me a hard time and say they dont want to do it. A good number of them find it difficult and awkward and vaguely embarrassing in an English way and perhaps would rather if I didnt knock on the door every seven years. Once we get on with it, then its not that difficult. But it is a whole lot easier than dealing with James Bond, I can tell you.
DRE: How does doing these documentaries affect the way that you work with actors in fiction film?
MA: I think I have a documentary spirit. I approach all the fiction films in a documentary way. I find truth is stranger than fiction. So if Im doing a movie then I like to get into the research of it and the reality on which its supposedly based. I find that very helpful. Even with the Bond I found it helpful. I approach everything with a spirit of a documentarian with an inquiring mind whos prepared to look into stuff and not just sit in a room and fictionalize stuff.
DRE: Was getting John back for 49 UP difficult?
MA: Well you cant cajole him. I think he saw that this was probably another good time to push his Bulgarian charity. I dont mind, whatever it takes.
DRE: Whats interesting is when the whole series ends, its going to be something that will looked at for generations to come as a portrait of people in this time period.
MA: Well I hope so, not just the peoples lives but the society. I hope it would exist as a social history of England since the 1960s. I hope it will be a bit more than just a portrait of 14 people. I hope that the portraits have a wider resonance but who knows, you cant judge what history is going to say about them but clearly its a pretty unique documentation of a period of history.
DRE: Which member of the series has surprised you the most over the years?
MA: Obviously Neils life has been a roller coaster and Nick the country boy with his little Wellington boots at seven is now is a professor at a university in America. I think everybody is a surprise. I suppose the least surprising were the most empowered. Those who had their lives or at least their education mapped out for them. I suppose they havent been really surprising. They havent really gone against expectations or anything. Theyve all done pretty well but most of them have surprises and changes in their lives. I think you predict peoples lives at your peril.
DRE: I know you directed the documentary Married in America, are you doing another one?
MA: Ive just done the second one. The second one is coming out in February next year.
DRE: Is that something else you want to keep going on with?
MA: Yeah. It grew out of this series because I always thought the marriages were so interesting so I thought, Why not do one about marriage. So these things get their own balance of men and women in it. Yes, Im pleased with it. Some interesting things have happened to people so I think you want to see whats going to happen next so its something Im very optimistic about.
DRE: Are there other topics you want to tackle?
MA: No, I dont think so. Not in a longitudinal sense. Im 65 so Im not a young man. I have to be a bit realistic about this but maybe Ive got another decade in me and I could do another couple of marriage and another one or two of the art films before I lose my mind. But I dont think I want to start anything new on that because if you do it properly its very time consuming.
DRE: Has anyone ever asked you to consult on a reality show or help create on?
MA: No [laughs] they havent, funnily enough. Actually perhaps they should and now I feel bad about it. No ones ever asked me that question before and no one has ever asked me to consult on a reality show.
DRE: Would you have any interest in revisiting the people in the UP series in between or do you feel like seven years is the right time period?
MA: I think that seven is good but if there were very exceptional circumstances I would. Ive only done it once and that was when Bruce got married and Neil was showing up at the wedding and I couldnt let that pass by but otherwise Ive been pretty strict about keeping the seven year gap.
DRE: I read your wife created the show What About Brian and that you directed an episode.
MA: Yes she told me I had to do one. What do you say? No? I did episode four.
DRE: How do you like doing TV?
MA: Ive done it aoccasionally in America. Its very tough because its a brutal schedule. I enjoy it though because its fast and theres a good buzz to it and the people are usually nice. But its not something one wants to make a living with. I just like doing different things too. It changes the rhythm around. It is good for the cardiovascular.
DRE: Im a big comedy fan so I wanted to ask you about working with John Belushi, not that Continental Divide was a comedy. I know that every director thats ever worked with John Belushi says that besides being one of the funniest people he is also a fantastic dramatic actor.
MA: Id certainly join that club. I thought so. I think we missed a lot by his early demise. I think he could have been a really terrific character actor. Maybe I was asking a bit much playing a romantic leading man but I think he would have had a big career as a straight actor.
DRE: Yeah, I think he could have been like Robert De Niro at this point.
MA: He could, he could.
DRE: Was he someone that you wanted to work with or did the studio ask you to work with him?
MA: I had done Coal Miners Daughter and he had done Blues Brothers. I got to know him a bit through John Landis. I think he was sizing me up a bit and then when the script came in for Continental Divide, they came to me with it and he asked me would I be interested in it. So that was pretty smashing. I did think he was great, who didnt, but it was really because of the fact that we were both at Universal together over a period of a year or so that I knew him slightly.
DRE: What is your next feature?
MA: It is called Amazing Grace is a historical British film about the passing of the Anti-Slave Trade Act with Albert Finney, Ioan Gruffudd and various good souls.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
zoetica:
Film director Michael Apted is such an anomaly in Hollywood. He careens from big budget films such as The World Is Not Enough to smaller films like Enigma. But always, without fail, every seven years Apted puts together another UP film. In 1964 a group of seven year old children were interviewed about...