In 2002 Dylan Kidd exploded onto the independent movie scene with Roger Dodger which went on to get nominated for three Independent Spirit Awards including one for Best First Feature. His latest film is p.s. and it stars Laura Linney and Topher Grace.
Check out the official website of p.s.
Daniel Robert Epstein: How was making this film different from making Roger Dodger?
Dylan Kidd: When you make your first movie you know you dont know anything so youre very free. On the second movie, youre like that dangerous pilot thats had fifty hours of flight simulator training so you think you know what youre doing, but you dont. The first couple of days were really tough because I had to remember that you start from scratch with every movie. Once again I was very lucky to have an experienced cast to carry me though.
DRE: This movie shares a lot of similar themes to Roger Dodger and similar situations.
DK: Yeah it was funny because when I first read the book, Anne Chaisson was my producing partner. We were so happy because it was so different and it has a female protagonist. Ill show people Im not a one trip pony and then of course at one point in the editing room I was like Oh, Ive made the same movie all over again!
The styles are very different but I do think there is a link between the two main characters. I think there is something that both Laura and Campbell's characters have in common. There is something happening with an older character meeting a younger character, but being at the same emotional age.
DRE: How would those characters interact together?
DK: I dont know but Laura and Campbell are doing a movie together in about six months. Im very curious as to what their on-screen chemistry is like [laughs].
DRE: I thought you were really taking a big chance by putting in a realistic sex scene.
DK: Yeah in an independent film you sort of have to do things to set your work apart a little bit. I was nervous. I remember that the great thing about that day was that it was very easy to tell when things were going well because if I felt like I needed to look away from the monitor because what I was looking at was too private. To do a sex scene or a love scene youre really asking the actors to trust you and commit to it fully as you can see. So its a real gift to the director to trust you enough to do things.
When I go to the movies and nudity actually happens Im often thrown out of the movies for a second because Im thinking, Oh thats so and sos breast. Thats his butt. So by sort of setting up that she wasnt going to take off her dress. Youre able to get that out of the way and can just watch the scene.
DRE: After writing the script for Roger Dodger from scratch what made you decide to adapt a book?
DK: Anne and I got sent sort of every angry man script out there after Roger Dodger, which is fine because the industry only has one movie to go on so they assume that thats what youd like to do. We sure weren't getting offered a lot with a female protagonist. I was writing something but Im a very slow writer so when this book came along it was just the right time. I thought it was important to make the second movie and not wait five years.
DRE: What was the process of working with Helen?
DK: Ive never written with a writing partner, so it wasn't like I would sit in a room with her. Id write a draft and give it to Helen and then wed have like a meeting about it. She was very gracious. I dont think it was an easy process for her to watch her baby get transformed into this other medium, but I think that the book and the movie coexist very nicely. If youve seen the movie, you can read the book and get even more subtext and back story and if youve read the book I think there are shades in the movie so they can exist side by side.
DRE: Theres a pivotal scene where Laura is telling Topher to imagine hes middle aged and with love handles. In the book its all in monologue. Did you write that scene?
DK: Yeah, we needed a scene to really tell the audience that Lauras character wasnt completely innocent in the whole situation. Whenever you go to see a romantic comedy what youre expecting is that its going to be a Cinderella story. Theres going to be this lovely woman and its an unfair universe and thats why shes alone. So thats why we needed this scene to show thats shes kind of cruel to this kid and maybe shes not perfectly innocent. We loved taking this little interior monologue in the book and giving it a full treatment.
DRE: What was the process of casting the movie?
Laura is a friend of Campbell's so she came to a rough cut screening of Roger Dodger and we met. Five minutes later I thought I should write something for her so by the time the book found its way to me there was nobody else we had in mind. The only problem was that she was doing Kinsey right up until our shoot. She actually ended up having only two days off in-between Kinsey and our shoot which is brutal for an actress. We knew we werent going to have any rehearsal time, which meant that we had to find someone that had instant chemistry with her. She agreed to come in and read against Topher and it was one of those great experiences where it was just really clicked and I remember the second he walked out of the room, Laura turned to me and said, this is like finding Mark Ruffalo for You Can Count On Me.
DRE: Their relationship is just wrong on every level, she wants to be with the guy who died and he wanted to get into the school. I kept waiting for the big reveal at one point.
DK: I have a strong belief that the thing that initially attracts you to somebody always ends up being the thing you have to get past in order to have a real relationship. So this uncanny resemblance or whatever this thing is when it comes into the movie starts off as being this gift from the heavens and hopefully by the second act, well realize its an obstacle he has to fight through. I feel like that's true in life; were drawn to people wholl hopefully help us sort through issues we need to deal with.
DRE: Do you think of yourself as a particularly New York filmmaker?
DK: Yeah, I like New York! I live in New York and I feel comfortable here and it helps me when I work to be able to go home and be in my apartment with my cats. That isnt to say I wouldnt love to go shoot a movie in some far flown place, certainly the crews are the best in the world here so theres defiantly a comfort level here for me in the city
DRE: What did Columbia University think of the movie?
DK: I think that they love it. We were so low-maintenance, I know The Mirror Has Two Faces was shot up there and that was difficult for Columbia because it was a big movie. The great thing about shooting on Columbia was that when shes in her office, you see that out her window and there are kids walking out there that arent extras. Thats just the college! We couldnt have built a set that was more expressive than this bay window looking out over the young lovers on the steps.
DRE: You said that the studios were throwing sort of angry man scripts. Are you an angry man yourself?
DK: I met with Paul Schrader at some point and I remember asking, Look man, you wrote Taxi Driver, but youre not a psychopathic, right? and hes like, No, its a character So I said, okay I can go and claim Roger Dodger.
DRE: Would you ever want to do a big science-fiction movie?
DK: No, I have a friend from NYU her name is Karyn Kusama who is directing Aeon Flux right now. I do think that they need to give Darren Aronofsky $100 million and let him go make a sci-fi movie. I dont know if thats for me, but I think probably the one genre I wouldnt feel comfortable in and that is the musical, everything else is fair game [laughs].
DRE: What are you doing next?
DK: Im writing something this winter. Its another comedy. It wasnt until we really finished p.s. that I realized how ready I was to go back and finally write another original screenplay.
DRE: Do you think itll be darker or lighter?
DK: Right now Id like to have a big raucous laugh out loud comedy, but so would everybody. I mean I thought this one would be a big raucous laugh.
DRE: Do you ever think about writing for other directors?
DK: No, its too hard. I would love to direct somebody elses script. But writing for me is like eating your vegetables. I guess my ideal situation would be to have what Alexander Payne or Michael Winterbottom has. They have writing partners to do a lot of the grunt work and Alexander would sweep in and theyd take like two weeks in a hotel to whip the thing into shape. I dont know if thats how it actually works, but I know that with the people who make a movie every year chances are they have somebody writing with them. I want to make a movie every year, but theres no way in hell Im going to be able to do that.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Check out the official website of p.s.
Daniel Robert Epstein: How was making this film different from making Roger Dodger?
Dylan Kidd: When you make your first movie you know you dont know anything so youre very free. On the second movie, youre like that dangerous pilot thats had fifty hours of flight simulator training so you think you know what youre doing, but you dont. The first couple of days were really tough because I had to remember that you start from scratch with every movie. Once again I was very lucky to have an experienced cast to carry me though.
DRE: This movie shares a lot of similar themes to Roger Dodger and similar situations.
DK: Yeah it was funny because when I first read the book, Anne Chaisson was my producing partner. We were so happy because it was so different and it has a female protagonist. Ill show people Im not a one trip pony and then of course at one point in the editing room I was like Oh, Ive made the same movie all over again!
The styles are very different but I do think there is a link between the two main characters. I think there is something that both Laura and Campbell's characters have in common. There is something happening with an older character meeting a younger character, but being at the same emotional age.
DRE: How would those characters interact together?
DK: I dont know but Laura and Campbell are doing a movie together in about six months. Im very curious as to what their on-screen chemistry is like [laughs].
DRE: I thought you were really taking a big chance by putting in a realistic sex scene.
DK: Yeah in an independent film you sort of have to do things to set your work apart a little bit. I was nervous. I remember that the great thing about that day was that it was very easy to tell when things were going well because if I felt like I needed to look away from the monitor because what I was looking at was too private. To do a sex scene or a love scene youre really asking the actors to trust you and commit to it fully as you can see. So its a real gift to the director to trust you enough to do things.
When I go to the movies and nudity actually happens Im often thrown out of the movies for a second because Im thinking, Oh thats so and sos breast. Thats his butt. So by sort of setting up that she wasnt going to take off her dress. Youre able to get that out of the way and can just watch the scene.
DRE: After writing the script for Roger Dodger from scratch what made you decide to adapt a book?
DK: Anne and I got sent sort of every angry man script out there after Roger Dodger, which is fine because the industry only has one movie to go on so they assume that thats what youd like to do. We sure weren't getting offered a lot with a female protagonist. I was writing something but Im a very slow writer so when this book came along it was just the right time. I thought it was important to make the second movie and not wait five years.
DRE: What was the process of working with Helen?
DK: Ive never written with a writing partner, so it wasn't like I would sit in a room with her. Id write a draft and give it to Helen and then wed have like a meeting about it. She was very gracious. I dont think it was an easy process for her to watch her baby get transformed into this other medium, but I think that the book and the movie coexist very nicely. If youve seen the movie, you can read the book and get even more subtext and back story and if youve read the book I think there are shades in the movie so they can exist side by side.
DRE: Theres a pivotal scene where Laura is telling Topher to imagine hes middle aged and with love handles. In the book its all in monologue. Did you write that scene?
DK: Yeah, we needed a scene to really tell the audience that Lauras character wasnt completely innocent in the whole situation. Whenever you go to see a romantic comedy what youre expecting is that its going to be a Cinderella story. Theres going to be this lovely woman and its an unfair universe and thats why shes alone. So thats why we needed this scene to show thats shes kind of cruel to this kid and maybe shes not perfectly innocent. We loved taking this little interior monologue in the book and giving it a full treatment.
DRE: What was the process of casting the movie?
Laura is a friend of Campbell's so she came to a rough cut screening of Roger Dodger and we met. Five minutes later I thought I should write something for her so by the time the book found its way to me there was nobody else we had in mind. The only problem was that she was doing Kinsey right up until our shoot. She actually ended up having only two days off in-between Kinsey and our shoot which is brutal for an actress. We knew we werent going to have any rehearsal time, which meant that we had to find someone that had instant chemistry with her. She agreed to come in and read against Topher and it was one of those great experiences where it was just really clicked and I remember the second he walked out of the room, Laura turned to me and said, this is like finding Mark Ruffalo for You Can Count On Me.
DRE: Their relationship is just wrong on every level, she wants to be with the guy who died and he wanted to get into the school. I kept waiting for the big reveal at one point.
DK: I have a strong belief that the thing that initially attracts you to somebody always ends up being the thing you have to get past in order to have a real relationship. So this uncanny resemblance or whatever this thing is when it comes into the movie starts off as being this gift from the heavens and hopefully by the second act, well realize its an obstacle he has to fight through. I feel like that's true in life; were drawn to people wholl hopefully help us sort through issues we need to deal with.
DRE: Do you think of yourself as a particularly New York filmmaker?
DK: Yeah, I like New York! I live in New York and I feel comfortable here and it helps me when I work to be able to go home and be in my apartment with my cats. That isnt to say I wouldnt love to go shoot a movie in some far flown place, certainly the crews are the best in the world here so theres defiantly a comfort level here for me in the city
DRE: What did Columbia University think of the movie?
DK: I think that they love it. We were so low-maintenance, I know The Mirror Has Two Faces was shot up there and that was difficult for Columbia because it was a big movie. The great thing about shooting on Columbia was that when shes in her office, you see that out her window and there are kids walking out there that arent extras. Thats just the college! We couldnt have built a set that was more expressive than this bay window looking out over the young lovers on the steps.
DRE: You said that the studios were throwing sort of angry man scripts. Are you an angry man yourself?
DK: I met with Paul Schrader at some point and I remember asking, Look man, you wrote Taxi Driver, but youre not a psychopathic, right? and hes like, No, its a character So I said, okay I can go and claim Roger Dodger.
DRE: Would you ever want to do a big science-fiction movie?
DK: No, I have a friend from NYU her name is Karyn Kusama who is directing Aeon Flux right now. I do think that they need to give Darren Aronofsky $100 million and let him go make a sci-fi movie. I dont know if thats for me, but I think probably the one genre I wouldnt feel comfortable in and that is the musical, everything else is fair game [laughs].
DRE: What are you doing next?
DK: Im writing something this winter. Its another comedy. It wasnt until we really finished p.s. that I realized how ready I was to go back and finally write another original screenplay.
DRE: Do you think itll be darker or lighter?
DK: Right now Id like to have a big raucous laugh out loud comedy, but so would everybody. I mean I thought this one would be a big raucous laugh.
DRE: Do you ever think about writing for other directors?
DK: No, its too hard. I would love to direct somebody elses script. But writing for me is like eating your vegetables. I guess my ideal situation would be to have what Alexander Payne or Michael Winterbottom has. They have writing partners to do a lot of the grunt work and Alexander would sweep in and theyd take like two weeks in a hotel to whip the thing into shape. I dont know if thats how it actually works, but I know that with the people who make a movie every year chances are they have somebody writing with them. I want to make a movie every year, but theres no way in hell Im going to be able to do that.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Interesting interview.