John Shirley may not be a household name, but for three decades hes been an incredibly influential and prolific writer. He was one of the most important early writers in the movement that would later be called cyberpunk, and William Gibson and others have paid tribute to his influence. Shirleys novel City Come A-Walkin and his later trilogy A Song Called Youthwhich has recently been re-released in a single volume omnibus editionremain among two of the best cyberpunk works ever published. Shirley is also an award winning horror and fantasy writer perhaps best known for novels like Demons, Bleak History, and Dracula in Love and short story collections like Heatseeker and In Extremis: The Most Extreme Short Stories of John Shirley.
A singer and songwriter whos fronted a number of bands and written lyrics for bands including the Blue Oyster Cult, Shirley is also a screenwriter whos worked in film and television. He was the original writer on the movie The Crow and written episodes of different television shows including Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Profit, VR.5, Poltergeist: Legacy, Batman Beyond, and The Real Ghostbusters.
Shirleys newest project is The Crow: Death and Rebirth, a comic miniseries released by IDW, the second issue of which has just been released. Shirley spoke with SG over e-mail to talk about his return to the concept of The Crow, which is also his return to cyberpunk, and other topics.
ALEX DUEBEN: What are you working on today?
JOHN SHIRLEY: I'm writing a novella for "New Taboos" which is a book of fiction, mainly, and some non-fiction, part of a series of books from PM Press featuring outspoken authors--in fact it's the Outspoken Authors series--and in the past it's featured Ursula LeGuin, Michael Moorcock, and Terry Bisson. When that's done I'm going back to writing my new urban fantasy novel,"FOGG IN THE AFTERLIFE"...a strange tale set entirely in the Next World...
AD: When did you first encounter The Crow?
JS: I encountered it first when it was a black and white comic book. I wrote to the publisher, having seen some other work they'd done, with the idea of breaking into comic writing in an independent smaller press, and I suggested a story called Angry Angel. They said it seemed good but it was too much like The Crow, a new comic they were doing. I looked for The Crow in a comic book store, bought it, thought, "Yeah it's too similar" so I gave up on Angry Angel--and thought, "You know, The Crow would make a good movie. This comic is very cinematic. It's very archetypal." It had a lot of elements I related to, like the rockn roll feel. So I took it to Jeff Most, and he optioned it and we took it to Pressman.I wrote the treatment and first four drafts of the script, then David Schow took it on, and Dave and I share credit.
AD: What was the experience of working on the movie like?
JS: Well, it was bittersweet. It was interesting and exciting. I had some story disagreements with someone on the production team who was from a family that was part of a major corporation. (I'm not saying who this was.) He objected when my version used villains from an imaginary major corporation. He didn't like vilifying corporations, as he put it. He wanted the villains to be purely street people. In my version the villains were the 1%, as the expression goes now, who employed thugs, and in his they were rooted in the 99%. He got his way. But it created a rift; plus I was too confrontational in those days, and didn't know how to handle big egos (like the directora very talented man, actually). So then Schow came on and he had better instincts for dealing with those peoplemore movie experience perhapsand he did a very good job. Of course it was bitter for all of us when Brandon Lee was killed in a tragic accident.
AD: How did you end up getting involved with IDW and working on a new Crow series and what was appealing about the idea to you?
JS: Jeff Conner, an editor at IDW, had worked with me before, and he knew about my experience with The Crow film. He himself had developed novels about The Crow. It was appealing because this time I could interpret it my own way--and you will find the corporate villains in The Crow: Death and Rebirth. (Not that I think all corporations are inherently problematic. But some are socially irresponsible. There's a mentality that crops up in some that needs to be countered in a healthy society.)
AD: How much creative freedom did you have as far as the comic?
JS: Once I had the general idea and the rough story outline approved by the studio and at IDW--e.g., by Chris Ryall there--I had lots of freedom. Jeff Conner gave me some very useful input but the story is all mine except for elements that are drawn from James O'Barr's creation. It was my idea to set it in Tokyo and use Japanese mythology, and I used a science fiction idea with metaphysical implications that is also found in my fiction.
AD: Why did you decide to make the main character an American living in Japan?
JS: Well I wanted him American to have that basic connection for American readers, plus I'm more confident with a point of view character who's American, being American myselfbut I set it in Japan because Japanese mythology interests me and the Japanese settingcould be applied creatively to The Crow.
AD: Obviously, writing a film is different from writing a comic but how has your approach changed in working on the comic?
JS: The formatting of the script is somewhat similar, but then again it's different. In comics one works panel by panel instead of shot by shot, and while in many ways it flows like a movie story, it's a bit more static too. But the main difference apart from that is having to describe things for a graphic artist instead of a film maker. There are restraints, and considerations there, special to the graphic arts. It was a learning process. But I grew up reading comics, as well as prose novels, so it came fairly naturally.
AD: As far as writing the comic, I know that youve written for television, but was it a challenge thinking about issues and how to break down the story like that?
JS: Yes, planning for five issues, there is a lot of story to set up. I wanted to [get] into the action pretty soon, because there're so many story elements, with a few characters. We don't meet the ultimate bad guy till laterwe meet mostly minions. We think it's this set of people with one agenda, then discover a real puppet master behind them with his own agenda. And getting all that in, yes, a challenge. Working with an artist as opposed to producers/director, it's different! But I did feel more like the real author of the tale than I would if it were for television. In television things are more committee oriented. There are showrunners and other writers to filter through. In comics there is a lot of input from the editors but one can be more of a creator true to one's vision in comics, at least more than one can in television.
AD: Telling a Crow story today, a lot of the people who are reading the book or are the potential audience have seen the movie, have read the original James OBarr comic, and have probably seen comic or movie sequels, to what degree does that make the story easier to tell and what challenges are there?
JS: Certain aspects of The Crow are well established and I didn't have to spend too much time on them. I wanted it to resonate harmoniously with the movie without being simply derivative of it. It jumps into the action, the revenge tale, fairly quickly, like the movie--on purpose. That's just part of The Crow in whatever incarnation The Crow takes. And I decided not to dwell on "the transformation" into The Crow in the graphic novel, because I didn't think the graphic novel should resemble the movie overmuch. In The Crow: Death and Rebirth,a different character becomes The Crow than in the O'Barr comic or the movie--it's been established by now that The Crow spirit can transform other people who need to use its powers, its angry angel abilities, to make the wrong things right.
I used the Yata Garasu spirit from ancient Japanese mythology, the crow spirit, to accomplish this; I used Japanese Buddhist Hell imagery and mythology to enhance the story. I mixed in ghosts, magic, and one cyberpunk element, trying to show how metaphysics and science might converge in a mythic drama. But the most essential, fundamental elements of James O'Barr's comic book creation and the film are there: two soul mates, in this case a young Japanese woman and a young American man, are split apart by unthinking brutality; revenge and justice must be made manifest through The Crow. The soul mates must be in some way reunited, even though death has driven them apart. So that framing tale of romance, revenge, and romance once more, is still there. It is simply part of The Crow.
AD: I really enjoyed how you incorporated Japanese mythology, the Kabuki influence on the look of The Crow into the book. Had you thought about these ideas earlier and just never got the chance to use them in the movie?
JS: James O'Barr actually had The Crow using a Samurai Sword in the comic books, sometimes. So it may stem from that. But also I'm simply interested in Japanese cultureand so was James O'Barr, he especially liked Japanese Samurai films. I'm a fan of Zatoichi myself.
AD: Some readers might not be aware that youve written a lot of cyberpunk - and were a key figure early on in the cyberpunk movement - but most of your work, especially in recent years, has been outside the genre. I guess Im curious why you enjoy writing in so many different genres and why this was a good time to tell another cyberpunk story in The Crow?
JS: Partly it was market driven, getting into so many markets, partly I felt I was more a fantasist of some kind--writing urban fantasy before it was a genre, in books like City Come A-Walkin (which is still in print). But also I write noir, crime, adventure, and lately have experimented with a kind of classic "disaster movie" set up for my most recent novel, Everything is Broken. My novel Bleak History has cyberpunk elements. The Crow: Death and Rebirth is also a fusion of genres. So what I've often tried to do is combine the strengths of different genres into one creation. To me it's like using all the instruments in an orchestra. Or all the colors on the palette.
AD: Do you have a favorite novel of yours?
JS: The A Song Called Youth cyberpunk trilogy. It's now out in a one-book omnibus. Three books in one volume. Best thing I've written in science fiction; in horror, perhaps my new story collection, In Extremis: The Most Extreme Stories of John Shirley is my favorite.
AD: Now since I have you, I know that you briefly wrote for a show from the nineties that I was mildly obsessed with at the time, VR.5[/I}. I know it's been a while but I was just wondering what the show was like and whatif anythingyou found interesting about the show and its concepts?
JS: The show was about a particular take on virtual reality, the VR in VR.5, where it was almost a kind of alternate universe; it was about a team of investigators and reality leakage and I liked those ideas. They're pregnant with stories. It had its good ideas and good episodes. It ended fairly soon. I was story editor for most of its run and a writer. I have mixed feelings about the show, but it was a cool idea and it's worth reviewing on DVD or in reruns. Perhaps they'll bring it out again on the SyFy channel. ( I haven't heard, but you never know.) I wasn't in a good place then in my life, and I hadn't worked on staff before except in animation, so I struggled with it all, but it was interesting! A learning experience. I had a lot of fun writing for Ira Behr over at Deep Space Nine too.
AD: So the second issue will have been released when this runs. Would you like to tease what happens in the future issues that readers can look forward to?
JS: Like I said, there's a secret bad guy with an agenda and there's a giant demon we'll meet at one point who's pretty interestingthe Lord of Cruelty. There is a witch who lives perpetually in a barrel shaped (traditional Japanese) coffin, looking out through eye holes. There is the Crow's own visit to Japanese Buddhist hell...
A singer and songwriter whos fronted a number of bands and written lyrics for bands including the Blue Oyster Cult, Shirley is also a screenwriter whos worked in film and television. He was the original writer on the movie The Crow and written episodes of different television shows including Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Profit, VR.5, Poltergeist: Legacy, Batman Beyond, and The Real Ghostbusters.
Shirleys newest project is The Crow: Death and Rebirth, a comic miniseries released by IDW, the second issue of which has just been released. Shirley spoke with SG over e-mail to talk about his return to the concept of The Crow, which is also his return to cyberpunk, and other topics.
ALEX DUEBEN: What are you working on today?
JOHN SHIRLEY: I'm writing a novella for "New Taboos" which is a book of fiction, mainly, and some non-fiction, part of a series of books from PM Press featuring outspoken authors--in fact it's the Outspoken Authors series--and in the past it's featured Ursula LeGuin, Michael Moorcock, and Terry Bisson. When that's done I'm going back to writing my new urban fantasy novel,"FOGG IN THE AFTERLIFE"...a strange tale set entirely in the Next World...
AD: When did you first encounter The Crow?
JS: I encountered it first when it was a black and white comic book. I wrote to the publisher, having seen some other work they'd done, with the idea of breaking into comic writing in an independent smaller press, and I suggested a story called Angry Angel. They said it seemed good but it was too much like The Crow, a new comic they were doing. I looked for The Crow in a comic book store, bought it, thought, "Yeah it's too similar" so I gave up on Angry Angel--and thought, "You know, The Crow would make a good movie. This comic is very cinematic. It's very archetypal." It had a lot of elements I related to, like the rockn roll feel. So I took it to Jeff Most, and he optioned it and we took it to Pressman.I wrote the treatment and first four drafts of the script, then David Schow took it on, and Dave and I share credit.
AD: What was the experience of working on the movie like?
JS: Well, it was bittersweet. It was interesting and exciting. I had some story disagreements with someone on the production team who was from a family that was part of a major corporation. (I'm not saying who this was.) He objected when my version used villains from an imaginary major corporation. He didn't like vilifying corporations, as he put it. He wanted the villains to be purely street people. In my version the villains were the 1%, as the expression goes now, who employed thugs, and in his they were rooted in the 99%. He got his way. But it created a rift; plus I was too confrontational in those days, and didn't know how to handle big egos (like the directora very talented man, actually). So then Schow came on and he had better instincts for dealing with those peoplemore movie experience perhapsand he did a very good job. Of course it was bitter for all of us when Brandon Lee was killed in a tragic accident.
AD: How did you end up getting involved with IDW and working on a new Crow series and what was appealing about the idea to you?
JS: Jeff Conner, an editor at IDW, had worked with me before, and he knew about my experience with The Crow film. He himself had developed novels about The Crow. It was appealing because this time I could interpret it my own way--and you will find the corporate villains in The Crow: Death and Rebirth. (Not that I think all corporations are inherently problematic. But some are socially irresponsible. There's a mentality that crops up in some that needs to be countered in a healthy society.)
AD: How much creative freedom did you have as far as the comic?
JS: Once I had the general idea and the rough story outline approved by the studio and at IDW--e.g., by Chris Ryall there--I had lots of freedom. Jeff Conner gave me some very useful input but the story is all mine except for elements that are drawn from James O'Barr's creation. It was my idea to set it in Tokyo and use Japanese mythology, and I used a science fiction idea with metaphysical implications that is also found in my fiction.
AD: Why did you decide to make the main character an American living in Japan?
JS: Well I wanted him American to have that basic connection for American readers, plus I'm more confident with a point of view character who's American, being American myselfbut I set it in Japan because Japanese mythology interests me and the Japanese settingcould be applied creatively to The Crow.
AD: Obviously, writing a film is different from writing a comic but how has your approach changed in working on the comic?
JS: The formatting of the script is somewhat similar, but then again it's different. In comics one works panel by panel instead of shot by shot, and while in many ways it flows like a movie story, it's a bit more static too. But the main difference apart from that is having to describe things for a graphic artist instead of a film maker. There are restraints, and considerations there, special to the graphic arts. It was a learning process. But I grew up reading comics, as well as prose novels, so it came fairly naturally.
AD: As far as writing the comic, I know that youve written for television, but was it a challenge thinking about issues and how to break down the story like that?
JS: Yes, planning for five issues, there is a lot of story to set up. I wanted to [get] into the action pretty soon, because there're so many story elements, with a few characters. We don't meet the ultimate bad guy till laterwe meet mostly minions. We think it's this set of people with one agenda, then discover a real puppet master behind them with his own agenda. And getting all that in, yes, a challenge. Working with an artist as opposed to producers/director, it's different! But I did feel more like the real author of the tale than I would if it were for television. In television things are more committee oriented. There are showrunners and other writers to filter through. In comics there is a lot of input from the editors but one can be more of a creator true to one's vision in comics, at least more than one can in television.
AD: Telling a Crow story today, a lot of the people who are reading the book or are the potential audience have seen the movie, have read the original James OBarr comic, and have probably seen comic or movie sequels, to what degree does that make the story easier to tell and what challenges are there?
JS: Certain aspects of The Crow are well established and I didn't have to spend too much time on them. I wanted it to resonate harmoniously with the movie without being simply derivative of it. It jumps into the action, the revenge tale, fairly quickly, like the movie--on purpose. That's just part of The Crow in whatever incarnation The Crow takes. And I decided not to dwell on "the transformation" into The Crow in the graphic novel, because I didn't think the graphic novel should resemble the movie overmuch. In The Crow: Death and Rebirth,a different character becomes The Crow than in the O'Barr comic or the movie--it's been established by now that The Crow spirit can transform other people who need to use its powers, its angry angel abilities, to make the wrong things right.
I used the Yata Garasu spirit from ancient Japanese mythology, the crow spirit, to accomplish this; I used Japanese Buddhist Hell imagery and mythology to enhance the story. I mixed in ghosts, magic, and one cyberpunk element, trying to show how metaphysics and science might converge in a mythic drama. But the most essential, fundamental elements of James O'Barr's comic book creation and the film are there: two soul mates, in this case a young Japanese woman and a young American man, are split apart by unthinking brutality; revenge and justice must be made manifest through The Crow. The soul mates must be in some way reunited, even though death has driven them apart. So that framing tale of romance, revenge, and romance once more, is still there. It is simply part of The Crow.
AD: I really enjoyed how you incorporated Japanese mythology, the Kabuki influence on the look of The Crow into the book. Had you thought about these ideas earlier and just never got the chance to use them in the movie?
JS: James O'Barr actually had The Crow using a Samurai Sword in the comic books, sometimes. So it may stem from that. But also I'm simply interested in Japanese cultureand so was James O'Barr, he especially liked Japanese Samurai films. I'm a fan of Zatoichi myself.
AD: Some readers might not be aware that youve written a lot of cyberpunk - and were a key figure early on in the cyberpunk movement - but most of your work, especially in recent years, has been outside the genre. I guess Im curious why you enjoy writing in so many different genres and why this was a good time to tell another cyberpunk story in The Crow?
JS: Partly it was market driven, getting into so many markets, partly I felt I was more a fantasist of some kind--writing urban fantasy before it was a genre, in books like City Come A-Walkin (which is still in print). But also I write noir, crime, adventure, and lately have experimented with a kind of classic "disaster movie" set up for my most recent novel, Everything is Broken. My novel Bleak History has cyberpunk elements. The Crow: Death and Rebirth is also a fusion of genres. So what I've often tried to do is combine the strengths of different genres into one creation. To me it's like using all the instruments in an orchestra. Or all the colors on the palette.
AD: Do you have a favorite novel of yours?
JS: The A Song Called Youth cyberpunk trilogy. It's now out in a one-book omnibus. Three books in one volume. Best thing I've written in science fiction; in horror, perhaps my new story collection, In Extremis: The Most Extreme Stories of John Shirley is my favorite.
AD: Now since I have you, I know that you briefly wrote for a show from the nineties that I was mildly obsessed with at the time, VR.5[/I}. I know it's been a while but I was just wondering what the show was like and whatif anythingyou found interesting about the show and its concepts?
JS: The show was about a particular take on virtual reality, the VR in VR.5, where it was almost a kind of alternate universe; it was about a team of investigators and reality leakage and I liked those ideas. They're pregnant with stories. It had its good ideas and good episodes. It ended fairly soon. I was story editor for most of its run and a writer. I have mixed feelings about the show, but it was a cool idea and it's worth reviewing on DVD or in reruns. Perhaps they'll bring it out again on the SyFy channel. ( I haven't heard, but you never know.) I wasn't in a good place then in my life, and I hadn't worked on staff before except in animation, so I struggled with it all, but it was interesting! A learning experience. I had a lot of fun writing for Ira Behr over at Deep Space Nine too.
AD: So the second issue will have been released when this runs. Would you like to tease what happens in the future issues that readers can look forward to?
JS: Like I said, there's a secret bad guy with an agenda and there's a giant demon we'll meet at one point who's pretty interestingthe Lord of Cruelty. There is a witch who lives perpetually in a barrel shaped (traditional Japanese) coffin, looking out through eye holes. There is the Crow's own visit to Japanese Buddhist hell...