I'm old fashioned and modern at the same time, Rachel Federoff tells me at one point during our phone interview. As a key player in the hit Bravo TV show Millionaire Matchmaker - which is now in its fourth and most successful season to date Federoff must reconcile her intrinsically alternative self with the always outspoken and often very traditional beliefs of her mentor Patti Stanger, who founded the Millionaires Club, the elite matchmaking service upon which the show is based.
The show makes for compelling viewing as it follows The Clubs well-heeled (and often well-quirky) clients as they are schooled in the art of courtship and get set up on dates. The Club is not for everyone however. Aside from a healthy bank balance, the other prerequisite is that the millionaires and millionairesses must be looking for a committed relationship, and not just to hook up.
To this end, Stanger has very strict rules that her clients must follow, and that Federoff and her fianc Destin Pfaff (who, as COO of the Millionaire's Club, also appears on the show) must therefore help instill and enforce. Drinking should be kept to a minimum on a date, the Stanger-mandated maximum being two, and all parties are also asked to refrain from sleeping with their partners until they're in a committed relationship.
This no-sex rule is not a judgment on promiscuity, but a reflection of the underlying relationship goals. But while waiting until well beyond the third date can be seen as pragmatic given the aspirations of The Club, some of Stangers other dating practices are tougher for those involved particularly the women - to swallow. She insists that her clients and their dates stick to very traditional gender roles; men plan the dates, and the women are coached to suppress their male energy and allow their prospective partners to take the lead. In an era of supposed gender equality, its hard for liberated women to appreciate Stangers logic. However, as Federoff explains during our interview, our subconscious instincts are often at odds with our feminist ideals, and relationship success often hinges on finding your personal equilibrium between the two.
Andrea Larrabee: I know you got involved in the Millionaires Club through your partner Destin, but how did you end up as Pattis VP of Matchmaking?
Rachel Federoff: Basically Destin and I met many moons ago on MySpace, believe it or not. After a few dates, he had asked me to pack up my life as I knew it in Orange County and to move in with him here in LA. I worked a crappy job for a while, and I saw what Destin was doing and thought that that was the coolest thing in the world. My background is in psychology and I'm a big people person. I had actually matchmade some friends of mine. Destin was getting so swamped with work that he had a little chat with Patti. It's a little bit different than how it's portrayed on the show, but he actually chatted it up with Patti about having me come on as his assistant...
At the wrap of Season One I went down to the set and I met Patti personally. She and I, of course, hit it off. We're both Jewish girls with an East Coast family, and very much have the same mentality and work ethic. I was so excited. Destin was like, "Patti and I are cool with having you work with me." As much as he hated the fact that the two of us would be working together, being in a relationship, he knew it would be good for me. So that's essentially how it started. Then Patti fell in love with the fact that I was so good at registering the girls, and handling the girls, and cracking the whip on them, so she eventually stole me from Destin and had me become her Director of Registration...I started learning how to matchmake through Patti. She saw I was phenomenal at it, so she started teaching me sales and I started to get my own clients...And when Chelsea quit the company, [Patti said,] "Rachel, you're amazing at what you do and I would love for you to be our VP of Matchmaking." Of course, I was like, yeah!
AL: What are the main things that you have learned from Patti? What are the skills that make a good matchmaker?
RF: There are skills, and I'll get back to that, but the biggest thing is either you have it or you don't. A lot of it is intuition...Reading a person, and getting to know them and what they like.
AL: On the show that Patti asks the clients what they want, but then she reads between the lines and weighs up what they're asking for versus what she thinks they need.
RF: Exactly...Our clients that you see in the show are very different from our real life clients, but they're also kind of similar in the fact that they all have these wacky, skewed ideas of what they are looking for. You'll have the 50-year old guy who wants the 21-year old girlfriend. We have to basically smack him on the hand and say no, that's not right, that's not what you want, and that's not what you need...You have to give them what they should have, because as Patti says, their pickers are usually off. That's true, and that goes for everybody. Millionaire or not, it's like you're in it so you don't see it. You need someone on the outside who can go no, no, no, you're doing it all wrong.
AL: Right. You can often see really clearly what your friends are doing wrong but you can never see the wood for the trees when it comes to yourself.
RF: Exactly.
AL: You say that your real clients are very different from the clients we see on the show. I guess the very fact that they're looking for love on TV maybe suggests that they want their 15 minutes of fame more than they want real love.
RF: Something like that, yeah. Pretty much. There are those that are really super sweet and genuine. On next week's episode for example, are probably the two best millionaires that we have all season. They are just really awesome people, really sweet. They're not douche bags, and I bet you a million bucks if they were to really sign up with us, they would actually listen to what we have to say and want to find true love.
But our real clients, a lot of them are very high end. We have a lot of celebrities and people like that, so obviously they don't want to be in the public eye - and they can't be in the public eye. They just genuinely want to find love. They're in it for the right reasons. They're doing it not because they have millions of dollars and they can afford our membership. They're millionaires for a reason - they work their asses of. They're so busy working, and running around and doing things that they don't have time to find anybody...and that's where we come in. We're headhunters for them.
AL: So those are the success stories that we never get to see.
RF: Exactly. We are completely confidential. I can't tell you who my clients are...That's the unfortunate thing with the show, they don't show a whole lot of success and it sucks. It's hard for us, because we do have a ton of success. Everyone gives us crap for it too. They say, "Ha ha, your success is in the 90 percentile?" It really is. It's just on a reality TV show everybody likes to see drama and train wrecks and crazy antics, so it's frustrating for us.
AL: How do you filter out the would-be dates that are only in it for the money?
RF: That's one of the biggest questions that pops up when we're potentially getting a new client. They don't want a girl who is going to be in it for the cash. That's why the girls fill out such an extensive application. The girls give us such crap for it. I'm always like, "I know it's a novel but get over it." It's a huge application, and it has a big giant affidavit in it stating that they're not allowed to ask for anything financial from the guys, or they will be fined money and they will booted from the club. So that's one thing.
The other thing comes when we're actually sitting down with the girls and getting to know them...Patti taught us things to look for [to spot] a sugar girl, a girl who just wants the money or a gold digger. If I come across a girl that's 21, and she says she'll date up to 70-years old, clearly they're having a little bit of Anna Nicole Smith syndrome. If you want to date the old fart that's got a million dollars then, no, you're not right for us.
And we have tons of girls that are wealthy themselves. We have doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, and business owners, and, again, celebrities who are not really millionaires but they are celebrities and they want us to fix them up, and they are not paying clients. Luckily we don't have a whole lot of gold diggers because we are very good at seeing the signs. And screening them, it shoos them away. We're very selective.
AL: You brought in the female and gay clients for the first time this season, which is a very cool addition to the show. What are the specific problems you have to overcome with those two groups?
RF: Well millionairesses - and I hate saying this because I feel like I'm bashing females - but they tend to be the biggest pains in the asses. More than the guys. They really are. We don't like dealing with them.
AL: It's got to be really hard for the successful women. To get to that position they often have to be aggressive in their careers; Its must be hard from them to then take the back seat in a relationship as women are often expected to do. I mean, you specifically encourage women to suppress their aggressive "male energy" on the show.
RF: Very true, very true. It is hard. A lot of them are, as you said, very strong and powerful, and quite frankly a lot of them have very masculine energy too. They are so strong that it scares the guys. It is hard for them to take the back seat. You're spot on with all of that.
AL: It's unfortunate that women sometimes have to choose between success and love, but it is hard for some guys to deal with women that are more alpha than they are.
RF: Yeah, to a certain extent. Usually we try to set them up with really successful guys that are ok with it.
AL: And the same sex couples?
RF: The same sex couples is phenomenal. I have been involved in the gay community for as long as I can remember. I've have gay friends, I worked at a gay restaurant, I've dabbled a little with females myself, so I'm a big advocate and I'm a big supporter for the gay community...I love all people. I hate people that are full of hate, and intolerant.
We were getting tons of e-mails from the gay and lesbian community asking, "When are you guys going to matchmake us?" and "Do you have a service for us?" I approached Patti and I was like, hey we're getting a shit ton of e-mails on this, we really should do something....She was like, "You want it, it's yours. Take over the gay division and see if we can make this work."
It's a slow crawl. It's been really tough. I think one of the biggest challenges, and again, I hate putting this stereotype on it, but I think the challenge is the guys don't really commit. They do tend to sleep around. I really have to admit it, and I hate saying it, but they do. They don't want to commit, and we're about monogamy and commitment. We're very old fashioned and they have to follow our rules. If you don't follow our rules, you're not going to succeed. You're going to keep screwing up, and it's not going to be our fault, it's going to be back to you again. You're the one that's screwing up. That's the hardest thing. It's frustrating because there's so many gay boys and girls that want to be fixed up...I have a ton of guys and girls registered.
With the show it's been kind of tough too, because sometimes we get hate mail from it. You get people that are anti-gay and they're pissed off that we are showing that - which pisses me off because everybody needs love. Everybody needs to find somebody whether you're gay, straight, animal, vegetable, mineral, everybody needs it. So I'm hoping it's going to take off even more after this season.
AL: You and Destin did some beautiful pictures for the "NO H8" campaign with your baby, Sin Halo. They are the most gorgeous photos. How did that come about?
RF: We just contacted the two guys, Adam Bouska [and Jeff Parshley]. I actually worked with [Adam] years ago at one of the gay places I worked at. I was so stoked to see that it was him and his partner that started it all. It's just a really special thing. It meant a lot to me, and I know it meant a lot to Destin, and by default it meant a lot to our son even though he doesn't know. I think it's important because I can show him these pictures and explain to him what it's for. I plan on teaching him to love people no matter what, so it's a big deal.
AL: That's one of the things I find so endearing about the show. So much reality TV exploits dysfunction, but you're trying to teach your clients, however dysfunctional they may be, how to be more functional. You tell them not to sleep with someone before they're in a committed relationship - and it's not that you're judging promiscuity - you're merely saying if you want to be in a committed relationship, this is what you need to do.
RF: Exactly. Exactly. I applaud you for getting it because half the time people talk so much shit or get so mad because we are ripping someone apart, or we're yelling at somebody. It's not because we're trying to be assholes...I'm not telling you to be a bitch. I'm telling you because I'm trying to help you. Do you want to succeed? Clearly you're doing something wrong, and clearly this is what we see, and we know from experience how things work. That's the frustrating thing, people get so upset. I'm glad you see it that way, as a positive and not a negative.
AL: Well they are coming to you for advice in the first place. But Patti in particular can be quite strident with her opinions on the show. In real life, with her clients, does she break it to them a little more gently?
RF: No. No, we're very much tough love. I hate using that word because of that stupid show, but we're very tough love about it. We're very no bullshit. People don't like it, and it's harsh, but you have to be that way. You have to say what has to be done. I'm actually like the nicest one out of the bunch, but this season I've been a little bit meaner. But I'm just being honest. So no, as you see it on the show, is very much in real life.
AL: What tough love do you wish you'd have had before you started dating? What nuggets of wisdom would have made your dating life easier as a teenager?
RF: Not that I was like a big sleep around girl, I wasn't a prude either, but I really like the idea that you should hold back on sex. I think that sex can really confuse things. I wish I would have known that even more so. I knew it, but I didn't know it as strongly as I know it now.
The other thing is the whole "me-amatum" thing that Patti is a big advocate for...I wish I would have been stronger to stand up to a guy, and be like, "Where are we going with this relationship, because I'm ready for the next step? If you're not ready, that's fine. I'm just going to go ahead and move on, and go my own way. Usually guys will either say "no," or go, "fine, I'm not ready."
AL: If you're asking a guy to shit or get off the pot, so to speak, and they choose to get off the pot, you are preempting a break up, which is the hardest thing when you're really into someone.
RF: Yeah, it definitely is. But at the same time, wouldn't you rather know sooner than later? Rather than wasting X amount of time with a guy, I would rather know. I would rather not waste my time with someone that's never going to propose, and never going to commit. I would rather deal with it up front, and deal with a little bit of heartache, than even more anguish in the long run...
It's hard especially for a girl to do that because, in a sense, it's a little on the masculine energy side. Because you're going against the old fashioned grain where the guys should be the ones that are making the decisions and proposing and what not. But I like it because I'm old fashioned and modern at the same time. I want my guy to propose to me, and I want my guy to take charge of certain things, but at the same time, I also want to step up to the plate too and work with him.
AL: Women are sort of stuck between two worlds. With dating, our prehistoric caveman brains kick in. Guys instinctively want to be the hunter/gatherers and bring home the bacon. And women in the work place often have to step up to the plate and take control, and then have to switch gears in their personal lives to allow their men to feel like men. Women are often very conscious of the need to switch gears.
RF: Yep, it's totally true. Destin and I have that quite often. He's like, "I need to feel like I'm bringing home the bacon." Exactly what you said, hunter/gatherer. Yet he knows I don't really want to stay home taking care of the baby all day. I love my son, and I have no problem doing it, but I need to work and I need to do things too. I'm not Susie homemaker. I'm not a barefoot and pregnant, stay-home type of mom. That's not who I am. I would go crazy if I was a stay-at-home mom.
There are times when I have to tell him, ok, you need to stay home today and watch the baby so I can go and actually have some me time and do things that I want to do. And it's hard for him to jump into that role. Destin's very much a workaholic, he really is. So we're both kind of switching in and out all of the time. It's tough, it's really tough. For me, mom does kick in. I miss my son and I do want to be with him. Then again, I don't want to be with him all day, because I need some me time too. It's a crazy thing, and it's happening more now than obviously years ago.
AL: It's so much more confusing than in the 1950s when everyone knew what their role was. On the show Destin and Patti are very much about letting the guy take the lead old-school style. They emphatically encourage the women to take a back seat and allow the men to plan and pay for dates.
RF: If a woman goes out with a guy and the guy doesn't pay or take care of her, it's usually not for a good reason. But we also have a four to one rule where for every four times the guy takes the woman out, she does something nice for him. It doesn't have to mean that she has to pay for dinner. She can do something sweet for him, like bake him cookies or take him to a park. Patti would say do his laundry or something like that, but again, that's very 1950s and I don't entirely believe in all that. I've always believed in doing nice things back, but at the same time letting the guy take control too, if that makes since.
AL: It makes total sense but it's counter intuitive too. In my past, because I come from a feminist place, I've always wanted to be an equal partner and an equal contributor. I've always wanted to pay half on a date. I always felt that that was intrinsically wrong to expect a man to pick up the tab. What I never figured out is that guys actually like doing that, they like to be able to take care of a women.
RF: That's exactly it. Im very much like you too. I would go out on dates and I would go Dutch, or I would pay one time or whatever. Obviously on the first date I tried to sit back and let the guy pay for me, but later on, I would help out. Absolutely. But, again, guys very much like to do that. They like to buy the girls drinks and stuff like that.
I was like, it's using somebody, and I'm not a user. It was wrong in so many ways for me. But yeah, they do they kind of enjoy it. I had to train myself to be more girly, and to step back and let the guy take care of me. It's kind of nice actually to feel like a girly girl, and have the guy like treat you, and open the car door for you, and pull out a chair for you. I had to teach myself to let it happen because I never did.
AL: It's so hard to reconcile those two opposing ideas. Obviously we're both strong women, and we have certain feminist principles, but we're also a product of thousands of years of evolution and ingrained culture.
RF: I hate saying this because I feel like I'm going against what Millionaires Club preaches, but I agree to it only to a certain extent. Do I think women should be at home and be the little wifey, and the guy should always work? No. I don't. I think women should work. I think women should have power, and be strong and independent, but at the same time we should also be romanced. We should also be treated like queens every now and then...We should allow them to do that. Destin and I have that balance. I'll let him do really sweet romantic things for me, and then I will do really sweet romantic things for him, which he loves...You just have to have that balance. I think that's what's key, and that's hard.
AL: What's the sweetest most romantic thing that Destin has done?
RF: I'd have to say the night that I found out that I was expecting - he proposed to me that same night. It was just really sweet. I found out [that I was pregnant] and we were all excited and happy and in tears. We were laying in bed and we were ecstatic. But then I started crying. It was a happy/sad cry. He was like, "What's wrong?" I'm like, "We're having a baby and we're not even married yet." That's where I turn into my old fashioned mode - we should be married first, we're doing this backwards. All of a sudden he turns around with this little box and proposed to me. It was the sweetest thing ever. It was just magical.
AL: He had the ring anyway, so he was going to ask you...
RF: Oh yeah. He had it all planned out. He was going to do this big elaborate thing that every girl wants, the elaborate hoopla. But this was probably the best thing ever. It was like two amazing things in the same day. We got engaged and we're having a baby. It was a double whammy, and I started bawling more, it was ridiculous.
And there was this one other time, and this was before we even were a real couple. It was probably on our second date, if you even call it a date. We haven't had a real date, date. We were hanging out and we were watching a live rockabilly band that I dragged him to because that's more my thing than his. He walks over to me and obviously has to get right up into my ear because it's so loud in there, and he said, "I just want to tell you that I love you, and I'm going to marry you someday." That was the first time he told me he loved me and that he was going to marry me. Usually when guys have said that right off the bat, that's when I run for the door. But this time it was the best thing in the world. It was the sweetest thing.
Millionaire Matchmaker airs on Tuesdays on Bravo TV (9 PM PST / 8PM C). Read Rachel's blog for insider info and the behind-the-scenes scoop. Follow Rachel on Twitter, and visit SinHalo.com/ for more info.
The show makes for compelling viewing as it follows The Clubs well-heeled (and often well-quirky) clients as they are schooled in the art of courtship and get set up on dates. The Club is not for everyone however. Aside from a healthy bank balance, the other prerequisite is that the millionaires and millionairesses must be looking for a committed relationship, and not just to hook up.
To this end, Stanger has very strict rules that her clients must follow, and that Federoff and her fianc Destin Pfaff (who, as COO of the Millionaire's Club, also appears on the show) must therefore help instill and enforce. Drinking should be kept to a minimum on a date, the Stanger-mandated maximum being two, and all parties are also asked to refrain from sleeping with their partners until they're in a committed relationship.
This no-sex rule is not a judgment on promiscuity, but a reflection of the underlying relationship goals. But while waiting until well beyond the third date can be seen as pragmatic given the aspirations of The Club, some of Stangers other dating practices are tougher for those involved particularly the women - to swallow. She insists that her clients and their dates stick to very traditional gender roles; men plan the dates, and the women are coached to suppress their male energy and allow their prospective partners to take the lead. In an era of supposed gender equality, its hard for liberated women to appreciate Stangers logic. However, as Federoff explains during our interview, our subconscious instincts are often at odds with our feminist ideals, and relationship success often hinges on finding your personal equilibrium between the two.
Andrea Larrabee: I know you got involved in the Millionaires Club through your partner Destin, but how did you end up as Pattis VP of Matchmaking?
Rachel Federoff: Basically Destin and I met many moons ago on MySpace, believe it or not. After a few dates, he had asked me to pack up my life as I knew it in Orange County and to move in with him here in LA. I worked a crappy job for a while, and I saw what Destin was doing and thought that that was the coolest thing in the world. My background is in psychology and I'm a big people person. I had actually matchmade some friends of mine. Destin was getting so swamped with work that he had a little chat with Patti. It's a little bit different than how it's portrayed on the show, but he actually chatted it up with Patti about having me come on as his assistant...
At the wrap of Season One I went down to the set and I met Patti personally. She and I, of course, hit it off. We're both Jewish girls with an East Coast family, and very much have the same mentality and work ethic. I was so excited. Destin was like, "Patti and I are cool with having you work with me." As much as he hated the fact that the two of us would be working together, being in a relationship, he knew it would be good for me. So that's essentially how it started. Then Patti fell in love with the fact that I was so good at registering the girls, and handling the girls, and cracking the whip on them, so she eventually stole me from Destin and had me become her Director of Registration...I started learning how to matchmake through Patti. She saw I was phenomenal at it, so she started teaching me sales and I started to get my own clients...And when Chelsea quit the company, [Patti said,] "Rachel, you're amazing at what you do and I would love for you to be our VP of Matchmaking." Of course, I was like, yeah!
AL: What are the main things that you have learned from Patti? What are the skills that make a good matchmaker?
RF: There are skills, and I'll get back to that, but the biggest thing is either you have it or you don't. A lot of it is intuition...Reading a person, and getting to know them and what they like.
AL: On the show that Patti asks the clients what they want, but then she reads between the lines and weighs up what they're asking for versus what she thinks they need.
RF: Exactly...Our clients that you see in the show are very different from our real life clients, but they're also kind of similar in the fact that they all have these wacky, skewed ideas of what they are looking for. You'll have the 50-year old guy who wants the 21-year old girlfriend. We have to basically smack him on the hand and say no, that's not right, that's not what you want, and that's not what you need...You have to give them what they should have, because as Patti says, their pickers are usually off. That's true, and that goes for everybody. Millionaire or not, it's like you're in it so you don't see it. You need someone on the outside who can go no, no, no, you're doing it all wrong.
AL: Right. You can often see really clearly what your friends are doing wrong but you can never see the wood for the trees when it comes to yourself.
RF: Exactly.
AL: You say that your real clients are very different from the clients we see on the show. I guess the very fact that they're looking for love on TV maybe suggests that they want their 15 minutes of fame more than they want real love.
RF: Something like that, yeah. Pretty much. There are those that are really super sweet and genuine. On next week's episode for example, are probably the two best millionaires that we have all season. They are just really awesome people, really sweet. They're not douche bags, and I bet you a million bucks if they were to really sign up with us, they would actually listen to what we have to say and want to find true love.
But our real clients, a lot of them are very high end. We have a lot of celebrities and people like that, so obviously they don't want to be in the public eye - and they can't be in the public eye. They just genuinely want to find love. They're in it for the right reasons. They're doing it not because they have millions of dollars and they can afford our membership. They're millionaires for a reason - they work their asses of. They're so busy working, and running around and doing things that they don't have time to find anybody...and that's where we come in. We're headhunters for them.
AL: So those are the success stories that we never get to see.
RF: Exactly. We are completely confidential. I can't tell you who my clients are...That's the unfortunate thing with the show, they don't show a whole lot of success and it sucks. It's hard for us, because we do have a ton of success. Everyone gives us crap for it too. They say, "Ha ha, your success is in the 90 percentile?" It really is. It's just on a reality TV show everybody likes to see drama and train wrecks and crazy antics, so it's frustrating for us.
AL: How do you filter out the would-be dates that are only in it for the money?
RF: That's one of the biggest questions that pops up when we're potentially getting a new client. They don't want a girl who is going to be in it for the cash. That's why the girls fill out such an extensive application. The girls give us such crap for it. I'm always like, "I know it's a novel but get over it." It's a huge application, and it has a big giant affidavit in it stating that they're not allowed to ask for anything financial from the guys, or they will be fined money and they will booted from the club. So that's one thing.
The other thing comes when we're actually sitting down with the girls and getting to know them...Patti taught us things to look for [to spot] a sugar girl, a girl who just wants the money or a gold digger. If I come across a girl that's 21, and she says she'll date up to 70-years old, clearly they're having a little bit of Anna Nicole Smith syndrome. If you want to date the old fart that's got a million dollars then, no, you're not right for us.
And we have tons of girls that are wealthy themselves. We have doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, and business owners, and, again, celebrities who are not really millionaires but they are celebrities and they want us to fix them up, and they are not paying clients. Luckily we don't have a whole lot of gold diggers because we are very good at seeing the signs. And screening them, it shoos them away. We're very selective.
AL: You brought in the female and gay clients for the first time this season, which is a very cool addition to the show. What are the specific problems you have to overcome with those two groups?
RF: Well millionairesses - and I hate saying this because I feel like I'm bashing females - but they tend to be the biggest pains in the asses. More than the guys. They really are. We don't like dealing with them.
AL: It's got to be really hard for the successful women. To get to that position they often have to be aggressive in their careers; Its must be hard from them to then take the back seat in a relationship as women are often expected to do. I mean, you specifically encourage women to suppress their aggressive "male energy" on the show.
RF: Very true, very true. It is hard. A lot of them are, as you said, very strong and powerful, and quite frankly a lot of them have very masculine energy too. They are so strong that it scares the guys. It is hard for them to take the back seat. You're spot on with all of that.
AL: It's unfortunate that women sometimes have to choose between success and love, but it is hard for some guys to deal with women that are more alpha than they are.
RF: Yeah, to a certain extent. Usually we try to set them up with really successful guys that are ok with it.
AL: And the same sex couples?
RF: The same sex couples is phenomenal. I have been involved in the gay community for as long as I can remember. I've have gay friends, I worked at a gay restaurant, I've dabbled a little with females myself, so I'm a big advocate and I'm a big supporter for the gay community...I love all people. I hate people that are full of hate, and intolerant.
We were getting tons of e-mails from the gay and lesbian community asking, "When are you guys going to matchmake us?" and "Do you have a service for us?" I approached Patti and I was like, hey we're getting a shit ton of e-mails on this, we really should do something....She was like, "You want it, it's yours. Take over the gay division and see if we can make this work."
It's a slow crawl. It's been really tough. I think one of the biggest challenges, and again, I hate putting this stereotype on it, but I think the challenge is the guys don't really commit. They do tend to sleep around. I really have to admit it, and I hate saying it, but they do. They don't want to commit, and we're about monogamy and commitment. We're very old fashioned and they have to follow our rules. If you don't follow our rules, you're not going to succeed. You're going to keep screwing up, and it's not going to be our fault, it's going to be back to you again. You're the one that's screwing up. That's the hardest thing. It's frustrating because there's so many gay boys and girls that want to be fixed up...I have a ton of guys and girls registered.
With the show it's been kind of tough too, because sometimes we get hate mail from it. You get people that are anti-gay and they're pissed off that we are showing that - which pisses me off because everybody needs love. Everybody needs to find somebody whether you're gay, straight, animal, vegetable, mineral, everybody needs it. So I'm hoping it's going to take off even more after this season.
AL: You and Destin did some beautiful pictures for the "NO H8" campaign with your baby, Sin Halo. They are the most gorgeous photos. How did that come about?
RF: We just contacted the two guys, Adam Bouska [and Jeff Parshley]. I actually worked with [Adam] years ago at one of the gay places I worked at. I was so stoked to see that it was him and his partner that started it all. It's just a really special thing. It meant a lot to me, and I know it meant a lot to Destin, and by default it meant a lot to our son even though he doesn't know. I think it's important because I can show him these pictures and explain to him what it's for. I plan on teaching him to love people no matter what, so it's a big deal.
AL: That's one of the things I find so endearing about the show. So much reality TV exploits dysfunction, but you're trying to teach your clients, however dysfunctional they may be, how to be more functional. You tell them not to sleep with someone before they're in a committed relationship - and it's not that you're judging promiscuity - you're merely saying if you want to be in a committed relationship, this is what you need to do.
RF: Exactly. Exactly. I applaud you for getting it because half the time people talk so much shit or get so mad because we are ripping someone apart, or we're yelling at somebody. It's not because we're trying to be assholes...I'm not telling you to be a bitch. I'm telling you because I'm trying to help you. Do you want to succeed? Clearly you're doing something wrong, and clearly this is what we see, and we know from experience how things work. That's the frustrating thing, people get so upset. I'm glad you see it that way, as a positive and not a negative.
AL: Well they are coming to you for advice in the first place. But Patti in particular can be quite strident with her opinions on the show. In real life, with her clients, does she break it to them a little more gently?
RF: No. No, we're very much tough love. I hate using that word because of that stupid show, but we're very tough love about it. We're very no bullshit. People don't like it, and it's harsh, but you have to be that way. You have to say what has to be done. I'm actually like the nicest one out of the bunch, but this season I've been a little bit meaner. But I'm just being honest. So no, as you see it on the show, is very much in real life.
AL: What tough love do you wish you'd have had before you started dating? What nuggets of wisdom would have made your dating life easier as a teenager?
RF: Not that I was like a big sleep around girl, I wasn't a prude either, but I really like the idea that you should hold back on sex. I think that sex can really confuse things. I wish I would have known that even more so. I knew it, but I didn't know it as strongly as I know it now.
The other thing is the whole "me-amatum" thing that Patti is a big advocate for...I wish I would have been stronger to stand up to a guy, and be like, "Where are we going with this relationship, because I'm ready for the next step? If you're not ready, that's fine. I'm just going to go ahead and move on, and go my own way. Usually guys will either say "no," or go, "fine, I'm not ready."
AL: If you're asking a guy to shit or get off the pot, so to speak, and they choose to get off the pot, you are preempting a break up, which is the hardest thing when you're really into someone.
RF: Yeah, it definitely is. But at the same time, wouldn't you rather know sooner than later? Rather than wasting X amount of time with a guy, I would rather know. I would rather not waste my time with someone that's never going to propose, and never going to commit. I would rather deal with it up front, and deal with a little bit of heartache, than even more anguish in the long run...
It's hard especially for a girl to do that because, in a sense, it's a little on the masculine energy side. Because you're going against the old fashioned grain where the guys should be the ones that are making the decisions and proposing and what not. But I like it because I'm old fashioned and modern at the same time. I want my guy to propose to me, and I want my guy to take charge of certain things, but at the same time, I also want to step up to the plate too and work with him.
AL: Women are sort of stuck between two worlds. With dating, our prehistoric caveman brains kick in. Guys instinctively want to be the hunter/gatherers and bring home the bacon. And women in the work place often have to step up to the plate and take control, and then have to switch gears in their personal lives to allow their men to feel like men. Women are often very conscious of the need to switch gears.
RF: Yep, it's totally true. Destin and I have that quite often. He's like, "I need to feel like I'm bringing home the bacon." Exactly what you said, hunter/gatherer. Yet he knows I don't really want to stay home taking care of the baby all day. I love my son, and I have no problem doing it, but I need to work and I need to do things too. I'm not Susie homemaker. I'm not a barefoot and pregnant, stay-home type of mom. That's not who I am. I would go crazy if I was a stay-at-home mom.
There are times when I have to tell him, ok, you need to stay home today and watch the baby so I can go and actually have some me time and do things that I want to do. And it's hard for him to jump into that role. Destin's very much a workaholic, he really is. So we're both kind of switching in and out all of the time. It's tough, it's really tough. For me, mom does kick in. I miss my son and I do want to be with him. Then again, I don't want to be with him all day, because I need some me time too. It's a crazy thing, and it's happening more now than obviously years ago.
AL: It's so much more confusing than in the 1950s when everyone knew what their role was. On the show Destin and Patti are very much about letting the guy take the lead old-school style. They emphatically encourage the women to take a back seat and allow the men to plan and pay for dates.
RF: If a woman goes out with a guy and the guy doesn't pay or take care of her, it's usually not for a good reason. But we also have a four to one rule where for every four times the guy takes the woman out, she does something nice for him. It doesn't have to mean that she has to pay for dinner. She can do something sweet for him, like bake him cookies or take him to a park. Patti would say do his laundry or something like that, but again, that's very 1950s and I don't entirely believe in all that. I've always believed in doing nice things back, but at the same time letting the guy take control too, if that makes since.
AL: It makes total sense but it's counter intuitive too. In my past, because I come from a feminist place, I've always wanted to be an equal partner and an equal contributor. I've always wanted to pay half on a date. I always felt that that was intrinsically wrong to expect a man to pick up the tab. What I never figured out is that guys actually like doing that, they like to be able to take care of a women.
RF: That's exactly it. Im very much like you too. I would go out on dates and I would go Dutch, or I would pay one time or whatever. Obviously on the first date I tried to sit back and let the guy pay for me, but later on, I would help out. Absolutely. But, again, guys very much like to do that. They like to buy the girls drinks and stuff like that.
I was like, it's using somebody, and I'm not a user. It was wrong in so many ways for me. But yeah, they do they kind of enjoy it. I had to train myself to be more girly, and to step back and let the guy take care of me. It's kind of nice actually to feel like a girly girl, and have the guy like treat you, and open the car door for you, and pull out a chair for you. I had to teach myself to let it happen because I never did.
AL: It's so hard to reconcile those two opposing ideas. Obviously we're both strong women, and we have certain feminist principles, but we're also a product of thousands of years of evolution and ingrained culture.
RF: I hate saying this because I feel like I'm going against what Millionaires Club preaches, but I agree to it only to a certain extent. Do I think women should be at home and be the little wifey, and the guy should always work? No. I don't. I think women should work. I think women should have power, and be strong and independent, but at the same time we should also be romanced. We should also be treated like queens every now and then...We should allow them to do that. Destin and I have that balance. I'll let him do really sweet romantic things for me, and then I will do really sweet romantic things for him, which he loves...You just have to have that balance. I think that's what's key, and that's hard.
AL: What's the sweetest most romantic thing that Destin has done?
RF: I'd have to say the night that I found out that I was expecting - he proposed to me that same night. It was just really sweet. I found out [that I was pregnant] and we were all excited and happy and in tears. We were laying in bed and we were ecstatic. But then I started crying. It was a happy/sad cry. He was like, "What's wrong?" I'm like, "We're having a baby and we're not even married yet." That's where I turn into my old fashioned mode - we should be married first, we're doing this backwards. All of a sudden he turns around with this little box and proposed to me. It was the sweetest thing ever. It was just magical.
AL: He had the ring anyway, so he was going to ask you...
RF: Oh yeah. He had it all planned out. He was going to do this big elaborate thing that every girl wants, the elaborate hoopla. But this was probably the best thing ever. It was like two amazing things in the same day. We got engaged and we're having a baby. It was a double whammy, and I started bawling more, it was ridiculous.
And there was this one other time, and this was before we even were a real couple. It was probably on our second date, if you even call it a date. We haven't had a real date, date. We were hanging out and we were watching a live rockabilly band that I dragged him to because that's more my thing than his. He walks over to me and obviously has to get right up into my ear because it's so loud in there, and he said, "I just want to tell you that I love you, and I'm going to marry you someday." That was the first time he told me he loved me and that he was going to marry me. Usually when guys have said that right off the bat, that's when I run for the door. But this time it was the best thing in the world. It was the sweetest thing.
Millionaire Matchmaker airs on Tuesdays on Bravo TV (9 PM PST / 8PM C). Read Rachel's blog for insider info and the behind-the-scenes scoop. Follow Rachel on Twitter, and visit SinHalo.com/ for more info.