Every citizen of this country should be talking about politics, Richard Kelly says during our interview, and indeed its the failure of a contended suburban couple to pay attention to the political headwinds around them that leads to trouble in his latest mind-bending opus, The Box. Like the directors two previous films, Donnie Darko and Southland Tales, The Box is a surrealist meditation on how we internalize political violence; it acutely examines the way we absorb and reflect back the government-sponsored harm that is done in our names and broadcast to us through the news media. As you might expect from Kelly, the film is also a feast of intriguing, half-explained imagery thats intended to inspire debate rather than tie everything up with a neat little bow. Why, for example, do several characters suffer from nosebleeds throughout the film? What to make of the sequence in which Cameron Diaz dances solo to mournful 70s rock? And whats with the constantly recurring imagery of unnatural, gelatinous water? Asking Kelly any of these questions directly would probably only elicit a satisfied giggle.
That said, there is a strong narrative thread in The Box, which was probably a condition placed on its reported $30 million budget, and any Kelly neophyte can easily follow along with the diehard fans. The story follows patriotic government worker Arthur (James Marsden) and his professor wife Norma (Cameron Diaz) as they try to decide what to do after Arlington Steward (Frank Langella), a stranger with an unexplained facial deformity, shows up on their doorstep offering a simple proposition: he promises to hand them a briefcase filled with one million dollars in cash if they will only push the red button atop a little wooden box that he brings with him. The catch, as he gently explains, is that pressing the button will cause someone in the world whom they dont know to die. Richard Kelly called up SuicideGirls earlier this week from his Manhattan hotel room to discuss The Box and how it fits into his evolving career.
Ryan Stewart: This is your most blatantly political film to date, as I see it. It touches on a lot of interesting themes concerning the power of the American system to exert force over and influence its citizens, or even confuse them into compliance. Do you see yourself as a political filmmaker?
Richard Kelly: I think so. I do think Im political in the sense that I love movies that arent afraid to stir the pot and rattle the cage, and I also love movies that are not afraid to wear their hearts on their sleeves. Thats what makes cinema the greatest art form that we have. You know, there are those who criticize the limousine liberals who love to talk about politics all the time, but I think every American should be talking about politics. Every citizen of this country should be talking about politics and the state of the world. Its our right to do that, and I think that pretty much any film I ever make is going to have some measure of political content in it. I would guess that even if I were to make a mainstream romantic comedy there would probably be some of that in there.
RS: Its interesting that you say film is our greatest art form since youre known for expanding on your screen stories with a lot of supplemental material, whether its elaborate websites or graphic novels or other things.
RK: Well, film is certainly enough, but at the same time I love it so much that I want to be able to go into it further with those companions. Its like a Cliffs Notes thing, you know? I almost wish that I could go and see the Coen brothers film A Serious Man, and then go to a website that had a translation of all the Hebrew or Yiddish elements in the film. As a goy, I didnt understand it because I dont speak or read the language, but Im still fascinated by it. So, yeah, I do love supplemental material, but also I did realize in hindsight with Southland Tales that maybe I had relied on it a little too heavily. I was nave to think that everyone was going to go out and be able to read a graphic novel prequel that is essential to understanding the story. [laughs] Thats foolish me. I should have realized that, well, no, only a very few people are going to be able to seek that out, because it would require them to make the effort, you know? And then theres also the fact that its not even going to be instantly available to them.
RS: But that supplemental experience is still a big part of your storytelling. Youve put a lot of effort into building some web activities for your new film.
RK: Yeah, I tried to do some of it for The Box. Theres a website called YouAreTheExperiment.com, which is a companion to the official movie website, TheBoxMovie.com, and it has these kind of prequel videos. We put together what is sort of a nine minute prequel to the film, and it features the score by Win Butler, Regine Chassagne, and Owen Pallett. Those were very fun for me to direct. We had all of this additional footage that we had shot at NASA, and I had wanted to use it somehow. Thats the kind of thing that I try to do for the really hardcore fans, who really love to geek out over stuff like that, the different websites and stuff. But at the same time, I am being careful to try and not have the films narrative rely too much upon those things.
RS: I noticed that sitcoms are sort of omnipresent throughout The Box. We keep seeing various show on in the background throughout the film. What was the point of including those?
RK: The sitcoms were sort of a way of reminding the audience of the absurdity of life. There is a fundamental absurdity to the premise of this film that I think is quite wonderful, for me at least. Its a very mischievous thing, the idea of a movie about pushing a button, and I wanted to remind people that there is going to be a dark, twisted sense of humor running throughout the course of this entire film. Those sitcoms were a good way of reminding you of that because they are all fairly ridiculous. But I love those shows! I love Whats Happening!!And I love Alice, but they really are absurd. And you know, speaking of absurdity, theres a monologue in the film by Frank Langellas character where he says Your home is a box, you work in a box, your car is a box, and youre going to spend eternity decomposing in a box. To which the guy at the NSA, of all places, responds: Its quite depressing when you think of it like that! Then Langellas character says Well, then dont think of it like that, its just a temporary state of being. You know, its why Sartre is one of the great French existentialists. They call it theater of the absurd, and I think in a way all of my films that Ive made feel like they are part of the theater of the absurd. Thats just the theater that I prefer to operate in.
RS: Specifically, when Whats Happening!! flashed on the screen during my screening a lot of the critics giggled. Theyve come to expect that when watching a Richard Kelly film theyll be asking themselves Whats happening? at least once or twice. But you like it that way, right?
RK: I think so. You know, the Coen brothers are, like, my favorite filmmakers ever. I think that the last three films that theyve made have almost solidified them in my mind as the most important filmmakers working today, and in their new film A Serious Man they have this line, Accept the mystery. Thats actually one of the huge themes of the hero of that film, but its also sort of their way of saying to the audience Listen [laughs] You know? Theyre snickering a little bit. I feel like they are in the back of the theater snickering, as if they were the really smart kids in class who think that its all kind of a joke. They just love to put these puzzles out into the world. So, in a way, the use of Whats Happening!! was intentional. [laughs] Im glad that people do get a chuckle out of that because it happens right before you meet Arlington Steward and the movie starts to take off.
RS: Was it part of your job as director to keep things simple on the set? Its hard to imagine that you spent a lot of time sitting around discussing Sartre with Cameron Diaz.
RK: We kind of did, in a way! There was actually a lot of philosophical discussion because of the way Norma and Arthur have to thoroughly vet and debate the offer of the button unit. That was the fundamental spine of the short story, and so we had to do that as filmmakers. What we were trying to do was illustrate whats hopefully a very realistic portrayal of what would happen if this offer were really presented. Then it takes a journey into the world of magic and the supernatural. So, we had these constant discussions, like, okay, how would they really do this? We were tweaking the dialogue and the delivery of each line to make sure that Arthur and Norma were charting the course properly, in a way that will hopefully allow the audience to identify with them as well as sympathize with them.
RS: Were you mortified when Cameron spilled some of the films secrets during the Comic-Con panel for the film? There was a lot of talk about that at the time.
RK: I dont think that she necessarily spoiled the movie at all. If anything, people just werent aware that the movie does involve the Viking Mars Project, but I dont feel like she spoiled the ending at all, because I think the ending has a much greater secret or a much bigger twist to it than what she said. If anything, I felt like it was a bit of a hubbub over something that wasnt ultimately important. But it is interesting how people want to make sure that they go into a movie sometimes not knowing anything about it. What I hope to do in this case is to reassure people. I mean, listen, there is so much in this movie to chew on and there are so many twists and turns and surprises that they are going to get with the ending that havent been spoiled, I dont think.
RS: You mentioned lessons from Southland Tales earlier. Is it very important that this film do well in order for you to keep making Richard Kelly films as we know them?
RK: Absolutely. I obviously need a hit, a theatrical hit. I hope to keep working inside the studio system, and with my new script Im actually working very hard to make sure that its as commercial and as mainstream as it can possibly be. But at the same time, Donnie Darko was a huge hit on DVD and its a movie that, when it first came out, a lot of people said This is a mess, its unreleasable, it doesnt make any sense. Well, it clearly started to make a lot of sense to a lot of people, and thats something that Im trying to hold onto, that formula, because I think its exciting. Also, I think thats maybe what people want from me. At the same time, though, I need to stay viable and I hope to stay within the studio system, so I do need to reach a broader audience and part of that is trying to make my stories a bit more accessible. I hope The Box will function that way for people. While there is mystery and intrigue and the movie does leave you with your head spinning, I hope its also something that people are able to access and understand.
RS: Were almost approaching the tenth anniversary of Donnie Darko, and I know that its going to be appearing near the top of many critics Best of the Decade lists. How do you account for its enduring appeal?
RK: I think its the ideas and its also the complexity. That would be my answer to that question. Its something that people can continue to discuss and debate for a long, long time. And it asks a lot of the big questions about our existence, about science and religion, and these are the fundamental questions that everyone asks, every human being on the planet. And if it hopefully speaks to a younger audience maybe a disenfranchised part of that younger audience that feels alienated -- well, theres no shortage of t hose people on the planet, you know? There is a lot of alienation out there and it gives me a lot of hope that people can kind of feel unified by it, by the movie. They feel like it sort of drew them together into a discussion, and thats sort of the purpose of art in my mind, you know? So, I am inspired by it and if anything thats what makes me try to hold onto that formula. If that formula does indeed exist, and its complex and full of ideas, then I just need to make sure that the formula can reach a wide audience so that I can keep on doing this for a living, and I wont have to go and get a job at Dennys.
The Box opens in theaters everywhere today.
That said, there is a strong narrative thread in The Box, which was probably a condition placed on its reported $30 million budget, and any Kelly neophyte can easily follow along with the diehard fans. The story follows patriotic government worker Arthur (James Marsden) and his professor wife Norma (Cameron Diaz) as they try to decide what to do after Arlington Steward (Frank Langella), a stranger with an unexplained facial deformity, shows up on their doorstep offering a simple proposition: he promises to hand them a briefcase filled with one million dollars in cash if they will only push the red button atop a little wooden box that he brings with him. The catch, as he gently explains, is that pressing the button will cause someone in the world whom they dont know to die. Richard Kelly called up SuicideGirls earlier this week from his Manhattan hotel room to discuss The Box and how it fits into his evolving career.
Ryan Stewart: This is your most blatantly political film to date, as I see it. It touches on a lot of interesting themes concerning the power of the American system to exert force over and influence its citizens, or even confuse them into compliance. Do you see yourself as a political filmmaker?
Richard Kelly: I think so. I do think Im political in the sense that I love movies that arent afraid to stir the pot and rattle the cage, and I also love movies that are not afraid to wear their hearts on their sleeves. Thats what makes cinema the greatest art form that we have. You know, there are those who criticize the limousine liberals who love to talk about politics all the time, but I think every American should be talking about politics. Every citizen of this country should be talking about politics and the state of the world. Its our right to do that, and I think that pretty much any film I ever make is going to have some measure of political content in it. I would guess that even if I were to make a mainstream romantic comedy there would probably be some of that in there.
RS: Its interesting that you say film is our greatest art form since youre known for expanding on your screen stories with a lot of supplemental material, whether its elaborate websites or graphic novels or other things.
RK: Well, film is certainly enough, but at the same time I love it so much that I want to be able to go into it further with those companions. Its like a Cliffs Notes thing, you know? I almost wish that I could go and see the Coen brothers film A Serious Man, and then go to a website that had a translation of all the Hebrew or Yiddish elements in the film. As a goy, I didnt understand it because I dont speak or read the language, but Im still fascinated by it. So, yeah, I do love supplemental material, but also I did realize in hindsight with Southland Tales that maybe I had relied on it a little too heavily. I was nave to think that everyone was going to go out and be able to read a graphic novel prequel that is essential to understanding the story. [laughs] Thats foolish me. I should have realized that, well, no, only a very few people are going to be able to seek that out, because it would require them to make the effort, you know? And then theres also the fact that its not even going to be instantly available to them.
RS: But that supplemental experience is still a big part of your storytelling. Youve put a lot of effort into building some web activities for your new film.
RK: Yeah, I tried to do some of it for The Box. Theres a website called YouAreTheExperiment.com, which is a companion to the official movie website, TheBoxMovie.com, and it has these kind of prequel videos. We put together what is sort of a nine minute prequel to the film, and it features the score by Win Butler, Regine Chassagne, and Owen Pallett. Those were very fun for me to direct. We had all of this additional footage that we had shot at NASA, and I had wanted to use it somehow. Thats the kind of thing that I try to do for the really hardcore fans, who really love to geek out over stuff like that, the different websites and stuff. But at the same time, I am being careful to try and not have the films narrative rely too much upon those things.
RS: I noticed that sitcoms are sort of omnipresent throughout The Box. We keep seeing various show on in the background throughout the film. What was the point of including those?
RK: The sitcoms were sort of a way of reminding the audience of the absurdity of life. There is a fundamental absurdity to the premise of this film that I think is quite wonderful, for me at least. Its a very mischievous thing, the idea of a movie about pushing a button, and I wanted to remind people that there is going to be a dark, twisted sense of humor running throughout the course of this entire film. Those sitcoms were a good way of reminding you of that because they are all fairly ridiculous. But I love those shows! I love Whats Happening!!And I love Alice, but they really are absurd. And you know, speaking of absurdity, theres a monologue in the film by Frank Langellas character where he says Your home is a box, you work in a box, your car is a box, and youre going to spend eternity decomposing in a box. To which the guy at the NSA, of all places, responds: Its quite depressing when you think of it like that! Then Langellas character says Well, then dont think of it like that, its just a temporary state of being. You know, its why Sartre is one of the great French existentialists. They call it theater of the absurd, and I think in a way all of my films that Ive made feel like they are part of the theater of the absurd. Thats just the theater that I prefer to operate in.
RS: Specifically, when Whats Happening!! flashed on the screen during my screening a lot of the critics giggled. Theyve come to expect that when watching a Richard Kelly film theyll be asking themselves Whats happening? at least once or twice. But you like it that way, right?
RK: I think so. You know, the Coen brothers are, like, my favorite filmmakers ever. I think that the last three films that theyve made have almost solidified them in my mind as the most important filmmakers working today, and in their new film A Serious Man they have this line, Accept the mystery. Thats actually one of the huge themes of the hero of that film, but its also sort of their way of saying to the audience Listen [laughs] You know? Theyre snickering a little bit. I feel like they are in the back of the theater snickering, as if they were the really smart kids in class who think that its all kind of a joke. They just love to put these puzzles out into the world. So, in a way, the use of Whats Happening!! was intentional. [laughs] Im glad that people do get a chuckle out of that because it happens right before you meet Arlington Steward and the movie starts to take off.
RS: Was it part of your job as director to keep things simple on the set? Its hard to imagine that you spent a lot of time sitting around discussing Sartre with Cameron Diaz.
RK: We kind of did, in a way! There was actually a lot of philosophical discussion because of the way Norma and Arthur have to thoroughly vet and debate the offer of the button unit. That was the fundamental spine of the short story, and so we had to do that as filmmakers. What we were trying to do was illustrate whats hopefully a very realistic portrayal of what would happen if this offer were really presented. Then it takes a journey into the world of magic and the supernatural. So, we had these constant discussions, like, okay, how would they really do this? We were tweaking the dialogue and the delivery of each line to make sure that Arthur and Norma were charting the course properly, in a way that will hopefully allow the audience to identify with them as well as sympathize with them.
RS: Were you mortified when Cameron spilled some of the films secrets during the Comic-Con panel for the film? There was a lot of talk about that at the time.
RK: I dont think that she necessarily spoiled the movie at all. If anything, people just werent aware that the movie does involve the Viking Mars Project, but I dont feel like she spoiled the ending at all, because I think the ending has a much greater secret or a much bigger twist to it than what she said. If anything, I felt like it was a bit of a hubbub over something that wasnt ultimately important. But it is interesting how people want to make sure that they go into a movie sometimes not knowing anything about it. What I hope to do in this case is to reassure people. I mean, listen, there is so much in this movie to chew on and there are so many twists and turns and surprises that they are going to get with the ending that havent been spoiled, I dont think.
RS: You mentioned lessons from Southland Tales earlier. Is it very important that this film do well in order for you to keep making Richard Kelly films as we know them?
RK: Absolutely. I obviously need a hit, a theatrical hit. I hope to keep working inside the studio system, and with my new script Im actually working very hard to make sure that its as commercial and as mainstream as it can possibly be. But at the same time, Donnie Darko was a huge hit on DVD and its a movie that, when it first came out, a lot of people said This is a mess, its unreleasable, it doesnt make any sense. Well, it clearly started to make a lot of sense to a lot of people, and thats something that Im trying to hold onto, that formula, because I think its exciting. Also, I think thats maybe what people want from me. At the same time, though, I need to stay viable and I hope to stay within the studio system, so I do need to reach a broader audience and part of that is trying to make my stories a bit more accessible. I hope The Box will function that way for people. While there is mystery and intrigue and the movie does leave you with your head spinning, I hope its also something that people are able to access and understand.
RS: Were almost approaching the tenth anniversary of Donnie Darko, and I know that its going to be appearing near the top of many critics Best of the Decade lists. How do you account for its enduring appeal?
RK: I think its the ideas and its also the complexity. That would be my answer to that question. Its something that people can continue to discuss and debate for a long, long time. And it asks a lot of the big questions about our existence, about science and religion, and these are the fundamental questions that everyone asks, every human being on the planet. And if it hopefully speaks to a younger audience maybe a disenfranchised part of that younger audience that feels alienated -- well, theres no shortage of t hose people on the planet, you know? There is a lot of alienation out there and it gives me a lot of hope that people can kind of feel unified by it, by the movie. They feel like it sort of drew them together into a discussion, and thats sort of the purpose of art in my mind, you know? So, I am inspired by it and if anything thats what makes me try to hold onto that formula. If that formula does indeed exist, and its complex and full of ideas, then I just need to make sure that the formula can reach a wide audience so that I can keep on doing this for a living, and I wont have to go and get a job at Dennys.
The Box opens in theaters everywhere today.
I liked the overt 70's styling of this film, and the tribute & homage paid to Kubrick and Hitchcock, but generating such a unique and somewhat non-sensical plot is not always successful. This movie cuts tethers of a rope until you have a bunch of unconnected pieces that you sit hanging for Stewart to connect back up in whatever sequence brings some cohesion. Alot of the plot lines seemed to have holes, and I never think its a good idea to torture a kid at the crescendo of a movie....its overt and unpalatable...so I get it...he is trapped in a box. but still, there could be something more surely. Its interesting that this interview ends talking about Darko and not the Box