The latest issue of Heeb magazine has an entire photo spread called the Crimes of Passion. Its got our Polish Suicide Girl, Kikka, as The Virgin Mary. I got to talk with Joshua Neuman who is the Editor-in-Chief, publisher of Heeb magazine and teaches philosophy of religion about the idea behind the photo spread, Mel Gibsons The Passion of the Christ and why Heeb exists.
You can get the latest issue of Heeb Magazine here
Daniel Robert Epstein: Did you help select Kikka for the photo shoot for Heeb?
Joshua Neuman: Kikka is a friend of [Heeb Creative Director] Nancy [Schwartzman].
DRE: What was the idea behind the photo shoot? Is it supposed to be a parody of The Passion of the Christ?
JN: No its not a parody and we havent seen the movie. Its important to understand that this spread is not a response to Christianity and its not a direct response to the movie. Its a response to one mans pomposity. The kind of campaign and the way Mel Gibson has positioned himself as if he optioned the story rights from Jesus himself. The way he claims the Holy Ghost has directed this film. The pretentiousness of the Aramaic and Latin and the idea that this is somehow beyond historical criticism. Also its the sort of evangelical purpose that makes us a little uncomfortable. I think by and large the photo spread was conceived as an appropriate feature for our audience because our audience is young Jews in their 20s and 30s.
This is a generation of Jews who unlike their parents and any generation before them grew up largely unscathed by Anti-Semitism. I think as this film gathered momentum we sensed that our audience was really confused, torn and ambivalent about what they were seeing in the marketing of this film and the reaction to it. I think it will be clear for anyone who looks at this that were not trying to present an authoritative perspective on what happened. The idea is try to debunk the idea of a historically accurate representation.
DRE: The Passion of the Christ is a story based on a story written by four gospels.
JN: Our generation isnt one that is going to pay so much attention to an editorial and we wanted people to pay attention to this. We think its really fucked up. The prerelease sales are very disturbing. We got together a bunch of our friends, Jews and Christians, and what you see on the pages is our own inter-faith take about this. So many religious leaders are arguing back and forth. So here is a bunch of Jews and Christians throwing together our own passion play. What I think the spread does is articulate our anxiety and ambivalence about the campaign.
DRE: Do you think people prejudged The Passion of the Christ before they saw it?
JN: Thats exactly what were responding to. Were not responding to the movie. Im ready to like the movie. I like historical drama and I dont necessarily think that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic. I like a lot of his movies. But were responding to the self-righteousness that this movie is beyond criticism and that it is a literal portrayal of what went on in Jesus final hours. We had a lot of choices here. Its conspicuous that this is not a historical take.
DRE: Its probably as historically accurate as Braveheart was.
JN: Right, Im not a historian and I havent seen the movie. So this really is Mel Gibson using marketing to exploit deep seated anxieties and fears in American culture and hes been largely successful. Hes a marketing genius. No matter how much his father sticks his foot in his mouth he comes out on top. Im not part of any boycott but Im not going to be prone to view it as history and I think many will.
DRE: With a cover like thats on this issue of Heeb youre trying to do something. What is that?
JN: Were trying to create dialogue and a conversation. Were trying to express what we know is latent feelings among our readers and friends. The anger over the way this campaign has unfolded.
DRE: Heeb is no stranger to controversy. Will this be the biggest thing so far?
JN: Its strange because its following this whole slew of press over how its cool to be Jewish. Ive always felt uncomfortable with that equation since its really not cool to be Jewish in Istanbul or Buenos Aires or on the streets of Jerusalem. It was about time we addressed anti-Semitism within our pages and not in over ly earnest or dramatic way. This is America in the year 2004 and its by and large a good time for Jews in America. But that being said its our first timely cover. Our issue comes out the same day Mels movie comes out so I expect it to be received differently than prior issues. I think it promises to create a lot of positive discourse and give voice to a demographic that I dont necessarily see being represented in the media so far in the coverage of this story. Usually its a quote from the ADL or the UJC but I think it was important thing for young Jews to have their voices heard in a way thats not in opposition to their Christian friends. We could have easily made this an all Jewish passion play. Its conspicuous that we did not cast Shecky Goldfarb as Jesus. We cast this majestic beautiful friend that has nothing resembling a reverent relationship with Christianity. I think its an interesting fresh perspective on a very timely issue so it wouldnt surprise me if it fostered a larger conversation.
DRE: What do you think of people saying its cool to be Jewish?
JN: I dont know what that means. To me cool is a word that comes from the marketplace. Its a word used to sell breakfast cereal. Thats what I think of cool. To describe an ethnic or religious orientation as cool is a very small step away from saying its uncool. I dont think of Heeb as a magazine for cool Jews, I think of it as a magazine for Jews or young people that are actively trying to make sense of what it means to be Jewish in the 21st century. That I think is a search that accommodates for self criticism, humor, certainly iconoclasm and theres nothing more Jewish than the effort to break idols.
DRE: I heard Heeb might be losing funding.
JN: I dont know anything about that.
DRE: From the United Jewish Appeal.
JN: Were not losing anything. Its not even an issue. They pledged a generous contribution to us and theyve fulfilled it. They havent threatened or insinuated to withdraw it. As the New York Times reported we were incubated by the organized Jewish world but part of what Ive been trying to do since I became publisher is shift from this non for profit model to a for profit model.
DRE: Whats the circulation of Heeb?
JN: 22,000. We have a readership of about 90,000 based one the 4.5 pass along rate.
DRE: Its pretty amazing to get so much attention with that kind of circulation.
JN: It is. Were clearly tapping into something larger. Its humbling to run a magazine with an all volunteer staff. Its humbling to not be able to pay for written material and photographs. Its a monumental task to put out one magazine and now weve put out five. Its strange to have conceived this in the basement of a synagogue on the Lower East Side sitting around drinking beer and cracking jokes about Hebrew school then realizing that youre a larger cultural force in some way.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
You can get the latest issue of Heeb Magazine here
Daniel Robert Epstein: Did you help select Kikka for the photo shoot for Heeb?
Joshua Neuman: Kikka is a friend of [Heeb Creative Director] Nancy [Schwartzman].
DRE: What was the idea behind the photo shoot? Is it supposed to be a parody of The Passion of the Christ?
JN: No its not a parody and we havent seen the movie. Its important to understand that this spread is not a response to Christianity and its not a direct response to the movie. Its a response to one mans pomposity. The kind of campaign and the way Mel Gibson has positioned himself as if he optioned the story rights from Jesus himself. The way he claims the Holy Ghost has directed this film. The pretentiousness of the Aramaic and Latin and the idea that this is somehow beyond historical criticism. Also its the sort of evangelical purpose that makes us a little uncomfortable. I think by and large the photo spread was conceived as an appropriate feature for our audience because our audience is young Jews in their 20s and 30s.
This is a generation of Jews who unlike their parents and any generation before them grew up largely unscathed by Anti-Semitism. I think as this film gathered momentum we sensed that our audience was really confused, torn and ambivalent about what they were seeing in the marketing of this film and the reaction to it. I think it will be clear for anyone who looks at this that were not trying to present an authoritative perspective on what happened. The idea is try to debunk the idea of a historically accurate representation.
DRE: The Passion of the Christ is a story based on a story written by four gospels.
JN: Our generation isnt one that is going to pay so much attention to an editorial and we wanted people to pay attention to this. We think its really fucked up. The prerelease sales are very disturbing. We got together a bunch of our friends, Jews and Christians, and what you see on the pages is our own inter-faith take about this. So many religious leaders are arguing back and forth. So here is a bunch of Jews and Christians throwing together our own passion play. What I think the spread does is articulate our anxiety and ambivalence about the campaign.
DRE: Do you think people prejudged The Passion of the Christ before they saw it?
JN: Thats exactly what were responding to. Were not responding to the movie. Im ready to like the movie. I like historical drama and I dont necessarily think that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic. I like a lot of his movies. But were responding to the self-righteousness that this movie is beyond criticism and that it is a literal portrayal of what went on in Jesus final hours. We had a lot of choices here. Its conspicuous that this is not a historical take.
DRE: Its probably as historically accurate as Braveheart was.
JN: Right, Im not a historian and I havent seen the movie. So this really is Mel Gibson using marketing to exploit deep seated anxieties and fears in American culture and hes been largely successful. Hes a marketing genius. No matter how much his father sticks his foot in his mouth he comes out on top. Im not part of any boycott but Im not going to be prone to view it as history and I think many will.
DRE: With a cover like thats on this issue of Heeb youre trying to do something. What is that?
JN: Were trying to create dialogue and a conversation. Were trying to express what we know is latent feelings among our readers and friends. The anger over the way this campaign has unfolded.
DRE: Heeb is no stranger to controversy. Will this be the biggest thing so far?
JN: Its strange because its following this whole slew of press over how its cool to be Jewish. Ive always felt uncomfortable with that equation since its really not cool to be Jewish in Istanbul or Buenos Aires or on the streets of Jerusalem. It was about time we addressed anti-Semitism within our pages and not in over ly earnest or dramatic way. This is America in the year 2004 and its by and large a good time for Jews in America. But that being said its our first timely cover. Our issue comes out the same day Mels movie comes out so I expect it to be received differently than prior issues. I think it promises to create a lot of positive discourse and give voice to a demographic that I dont necessarily see being represented in the media so far in the coverage of this story. Usually its a quote from the ADL or the UJC but I think it was important thing for young Jews to have their voices heard in a way thats not in opposition to their Christian friends. We could have easily made this an all Jewish passion play. Its conspicuous that we did not cast Shecky Goldfarb as Jesus. We cast this majestic beautiful friend that has nothing resembling a reverent relationship with Christianity. I think its an interesting fresh perspective on a very timely issue so it wouldnt surprise me if it fostered a larger conversation.
DRE: What do you think of people saying its cool to be Jewish?
JN: I dont know what that means. To me cool is a word that comes from the marketplace. Its a word used to sell breakfast cereal. Thats what I think of cool. To describe an ethnic or religious orientation as cool is a very small step away from saying its uncool. I dont think of Heeb as a magazine for cool Jews, I think of it as a magazine for Jews or young people that are actively trying to make sense of what it means to be Jewish in the 21st century. That I think is a search that accommodates for self criticism, humor, certainly iconoclasm and theres nothing more Jewish than the effort to break idols.
DRE: I heard Heeb might be losing funding.
JN: I dont know anything about that.
DRE: From the United Jewish Appeal.
JN: Were not losing anything. Its not even an issue. They pledged a generous contribution to us and theyve fulfilled it. They havent threatened or insinuated to withdraw it. As the New York Times reported we were incubated by the organized Jewish world but part of what Ive been trying to do since I became publisher is shift from this non for profit model to a for profit model.
DRE: Whats the circulation of Heeb?
JN: 22,000. We have a readership of about 90,000 based one the 4.5 pass along rate.
DRE: Its pretty amazing to get so much attention with that kind of circulation.
JN: It is. Were clearly tapping into something larger. Its humbling to run a magazine with an all volunteer staff. Its humbling to not be able to pay for written material and photographs. Its a monumental task to put out one magazine and now weve put out five. Its strange to have conceived this in the basement of a synagogue on the Lower East Side sitting around drinking beer and cracking jokes about Hebrew school then realizing that youre a larger cultural force in some way.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
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Everyone should go buy this mag, it's HAWT!