Due to his work on Saturday Night Live and the best sitcom ever, Get a Life, I was a fan of Bob Odenkirks work before I even knew his name. I figured this whole timeline out years ago. Odenkirk may not realize it but he is the line from which most good comedy sprang from in the 90s. It starts off with SNL, then goes to Get a Life then to The Ben Stiller Show which led to his roles on The Larry Sanders Show and Newsradio. That culminated in him starting a sketch comedy show with David Cross called Mr. Show.
Mr. Show is right up there with Monty Python and Kids in the Hall in terms of its influence. But because of its cult following HBO treated it like a red headed stepchild to the point of where its last season appeared Mondays at midnight. Eventually Bob and David agreed to dissolve the show. During their tenure at HBO they also produced three episodes of Tenacious D starring Jack Black and Kyle Gass.
Since leaving Mr. Show, Odenkirk co-wrote and co-starred in the feature film Run Ronnie Run which was originally a sketch on Mr. Show. After having major problems with the director of the movie both Cross and Odenkirk were kicked out of the editing process. That movie was released direct to DVD with little fanfare in September 2003.
Odenkirks latest project is something very important to him. Its his first high profile dramatic movie and this time he is behind the camera. Its called Melvin Goes to Dinner and its adapted from the play Phyro-Giants written by Michael Blieden. Its the story of Melvin going out to eat with a friend and two almost complete strangers. They discuss marital arts, infidelity, religion, a guy in heaven wearing a Wizard's jersey, anal fetishes, cigarettes and schizophrenia, ghosts, stewardesses, masturbation, and how it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Its a very different kind of movie, not only from Bobs oeuvre, but in general. Most of the action takes place at a restaurant dinner table and is intercut with scenes that explain the stories the people are telling. The ending really grabs the audience and you dont expect what happens next.
I got a chance to talk with Bob about his short tenure on Saturday Night Live, Mr. Shows point of view and I didnt geek out on him too much.
Check out the website for Melvin Goes to Dinner
Daniel Robert Epstein: I liked Melvin Goes to Dinner.
Bob Odenkirk: Thank you. Youre great.
DRE: Ive been a fan for many years so its very nice to get to talk to you.
BO: Its nice of you to support the movie. Im so knocked out by the people who are calling me about Melvin. I had a woman call me and she just loved it so much. She just was gushing about it. Its very different from most of the stuff people have seen from me. It turned out well and I am proud of it.
DRE: How did you connect with the play Phyro-Giants when you saw it?
BO: I thought the writing and the performances were great. I thought it was very entertaining which is a very generic way of stating its quality. I sat and watched the play probably five or six times. I think there is a lot of ways for people to take it. Every audience liked it, some thought it was funny, others thought it was sadder, some people empathized with the characters in the way they dissemble their own thoughts. I thought there were a lot of angles in for people to find it interesting. There were levels to it I liked.
DRE: I read this one quote where [screenwriter] Michael [Blieden] sees them as sweetly pathetic while you see them as ridiculously pathetic.
BO: Yeah I do. It would be very easy for me to say they are a bunch of assholes. On the other hand they are assholes just like me. If you were to hear me sit and talk to a friend about relationships or my dreams I think I would sound just as big of an asshole. Its a weird thing. Some people dont like the characters and its funny because I always I feel like those people may not like them but thats actually what they are like.
DRE: When you feel comfortable in front of your friends the asshole in you can come out.
BO: Yeah thats true. But people in movies arent supposed to be relatively young white people with some money whose issues are fucking around. People in movies are supposed to be chasing after money and trying to stay alive.
There is something that seems frivolous and indulgent about it but that is what happens when four people go out and share what they are doing. If they really get into it like these characters do, those are things that they are going to talk about.
DRE: Do you think you would have been able to do this movie ten years ago?
BO: I think I would have appreciated the writing ten years ago just as much. But Im not sure I would have done it.
DRE: Youre at a point in your life when you can look back on the characters as the way you used to be. Because now you have a family.
BO: Yeah I dont know, maybe I could have done it five years ago.
DRE: What was it like having Michael as the lead actor, screenwriter and later on the editor as well?
BO: He was great. We had an amazing working relationship. He listened to every observation I had and considered every suggestion I made. When it came time to edit he would try to make any choice I made work and he did it very earnestly. Some worked and some didnt but he was very open. I thought he would be and I knew it was hard for him to fuck with his own work as much as I wanted him to but he did it.
DRE: What made you want to do something as ambitious as shooting the restaurant table scenes with five cameras?
BO: What was great about those performances is that they were dead on so that was the only was to capture them. They basically rehearsed it 70 times because they had done it in the theatre so much. If I had a single camera I dont think we would have kept continuity as easily. It really was about capturing this lively performance between four people. I wanted eight or ten cameras but I was only able to get five. The quality of the performances wouldnt come across with one camera.
DRE: You put a lot of comedians and sketch comedy people in the movie but obviously you didnt want to turn this into It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World or anything like that. Was it just easier to get these people or do you know how talented they could be, even in a movie thats not a full blown comedy?
BO: Theyre all fantastically talented and right for the parts. Thats why I asked them to do the roles. I wouldnt want this to turn into a Mr. Show movie. I was able to get them. I didnt feel like I overdid my connections with the comedy scene. David [Cross] and Jack [Black] are the hardcore comedy people. Melora Walters I didnt know at all. We just sent her the script and she said yes to it. Ive wanted to work with Maura Tierney for a long time and she was kind enough to give us a day and a half. Mauras part doesnt have a lot of meat to it but she was awesome. For such a slight part she brought so much to it. Shes a great presence onscreen.
DRE: Steven Spielberg said he had to put a lot of himself, his sentimentality, aside to do Schindler's List. Did you experience any of that with this movie because of your comedy background?
BO: I looked at ways to heighten certain moments in this piece. But Ive done a lot of work in this area too but people havent seen it. To me there arent two different Bobs. Its all me and I like all these different styles. If something is good then its good. Everything doesnt have to be in the same tone or same level of comedy.
DRE: Do you feel like youve mastered sketch comedy and thats why you wanted to put this type of movie out there?
BO: It wasnt like I was looking for something to do that would be more serious or realistic. If I hadnt seen this play I wouldnt have made this movie. I just want to do good stuff and I wanted to shoot this movie. I still do sketch level comedy. David and I just wrote a movie thats sketches linked together to make a movie. Im really proud of it and I hope we get to make it. Its very much like Mr. Show so I still love sketch.
DRE: Adrian Tomine [of Drawn & Quarterly fame] drew the Melvin Goes to Dinner poster. How did you discover his work?
BO: Ive been a fan of his for years. Friends of mine got me into the whole scene of Eightball, Optic Nerve and Jimmy Corrigan. I love all those graphic novels.
DRE: Troy Miller [director of Run Ronnie Run] told me you, David and he had made up after what happened when editing Run Ronnie Run.
BO: Hes insane. Hes out of his fucking mind. That is nuts. Hes a fucking nut.
DRE: So you still feel the same about Run Ronnie Run and him?
BO: Oh yeah. Were really mad at him. David and I are both really mad at him. He fucked us up. He fucked our careers up and fucked us really hard. He did an awful thing. We dont have anything to do with him and never will.
DRE: Thats too bad.
BO: It is too bad but it was his choice. He was the one who kicked us out of editing. We didnt have any power. He had all the power and he knew it. He used it to beat the shit out of us. It was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. It was just a nightmare that went on for months. The guy basically tortured me and fucked up our careers majorly. We cant get another movie and hes made another movie. I made an independent movie that Im very proud of and I think its better than anything hes ever done or will do. But he really fucked us up and he knew he was going to also. When he kicked us out of editing I told him that this was my whole career youre fucking with. He said I know. Get out of here.
I have two kids. I need to work. Run Ronnie Run didnt come out because its not very good. Its got a few moments but overall its not very good and I dont blame New Line for not putting it out. It would have eaten shit just like all his other movies. But if we had gotten to cut it I think it would have been a much better movie. I know that because we cut Mr. Show without him and thats great.
DRE: I always heard that what makes good sketch comedy is a point of view. Have you and David narrowed down what Mr. Shows point of view was? Like a philosophy.
BO: I dont know how to put it. We would sit down and think of funny stuff then we would make an effort to make it about something. If we had a silly notion we would ask ourselves what it addressed, what social issue or human interaction could people relate to. Basically to make it about something which I know that sounds crazy. When you think of Mr. Show you think of a lot of crazy moments and stuff but things like blowing up the moon is the government selling people on whatever its going to do. The gung ho patriotic attitude. You could even say it applies to the Iraq situation.
To put it in a simple way. If the idea was just awesomely funny and silly than we just did it. But otherwise we would break it down and ask Whats it about and how can we point that out? I think that gives it some value.
DRE: Listening to the commentary on the Mr. Show DVDs you seem to be the hardest on yourself and the sketches. I would imagine that youve worked with so many people and done so many brilliant works that you are the only one would be that critical of you.
BO: There are people who could be [laughs]. Trust me.
DRE: Why are you so hard on yourself?
BO: At the core of what we do as comics is that were honest about life. The core of comedy is honesty, puncturing hypocrisies and stating things in a blunt honest way. This is whats really going on here. I think the honesty which I apply to the world and try to make comedy out of, I apply to myself and my friends. Im critical of my friends and they fucking hate it. They get so upset and I think it really hurts their feelings. But I say, Thats what were doing. I can make fun of George Bush but I cant make fun of you. I can point out the ways in which society, people and pop culture is hypocritical, stupid and ludicrous but I cant point out the ways I am cheating in my reasoning. I should apply that harsh critical eye to myself and everybody. But the thing that is strange is how many comic minds can see ridiculousness in the world, point it out and be irate about it but cant see it in themselves. That I dont get. I would say there is work of mine that is just good enough for what the joke is, or the joy it brings or the fun it delivers but there is a lot of stuff thats weak. You should be able to point out the weak stuff.
DRE: I spoke to Harry Shearer a couple of years ago. He said that every person involved with Saturday Night Live will secretly tell you they hate it. What was your experience?
BO: It wasnt a good experience overall but I got a lot of good things out of it. I shouldnt have done it but hindsight is 20/20.
DRE: You shouldnt have done it?
BO: No I think I would have developed more interesting and in a healthier way in my life if I hadnt done it. But what are you going to do? You arent going to say no to that job. I just wasnt prepared for it in a lot of ways and it fucked with me.
DRE: How was it hard on you?
BO: Both personally and professionally. New York is very overwhelming and I was not in a healthy mindset. I wasnt very sure of myself and the show really fucks with you. If you dont have your feet on the ground when you go there youre fucked.
DRE: Do you have good memories from working on Get a Life?
BO: Sort of, the second season wasnt as good as the first season, and the second season is the one I wrote for. I liked that show but I felt bad about it. I could tell something was wrong and I found out later that Chris [Elliott] and [co-creator] Adam Resnick were disappointed in where the show had gone. How they had been frozen out in the second season. They didnt get executive producer credits which they were promised. They were upset and they kind of distanced themselves from the show. I didnt know why at the time. It wasnt as good as it should have been but I had fun doing it.
The most fun Ive had so far was directing Melvin Goes to Dinner and Mr. Show. Mr. Show was very rewarding but very stressful at times because I was executive producing it. I was very anxious about it but it was also really great because it was funny as shit.
DRE: Were you happy with the Mr. Show live tour?
BO: It was just ok. We didnt have a great show. We kind of slapped that show together. We didnt have a lot of time and we were tired but we had a good time on the road. It was good to see fans and perform again. Its also a learning process. We learned about traveling with a show and the next time we do it well have a really good show thats built to travel. We will do it again.
DRE: Can Tenacious D work as a movie?
BO: Absolutely. Those guys are massively talented. Jack is a force of nature. I love him so much.
DRE: Were you a troublemaker as a youth?
BO: Not really. I was a class clown that was tolerated because I think the teacher sensed that I was kind of smart not to kiss my own ass. I was able to goof around a lot and make fun of people and situations. My teachers would just let me do it. They just gave me a lot of freedom to be goofy. I was disruptive. Only one or two teachers ever called my parents in to make me stop. Most of them not only tolerated me but seemed to enjoy it.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
Mr. Show is right up there with Monty Python and Kids in the Hall in terms of its influence. But because of its cult following HBO treated it like a red headed stepchild to the point of where its last season appeared Mondays at midnight. Eventually Bob and David agreed to dissolve the show. During their tenure at HBO they also produced three episodes of Tenacious D starring Jack Black and Kyle Gass.
Since leaving Mr. Show, Odenkirk co-wrote and co-starred in the feature film Run Ronnie Run which was originally a sketch on Mr. Show. After having major problems with the director of the movie both Cross and Odenkirk were kicked out of the editing process. That movie was released direct to DVD with little fanfare in September 2003.
Odenkirks latest project is something very important to him. Its his first high profile dramatic movie and this time he is behind the camera. Its called Melvin Goes to Dinner and its adapted from the play Phyro-Giants written by Michael Blieden. Its the story of Melvin going out to eat with a friend and two almost complete strangers. They discuss marital arts, infidelity, religion, a guy in heaven wearing a Wizard's jersey, anal fetishes, cigarettes and schizophrenia, ghosts, stewardesses, masturbation, and how it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Its a very different kind of movie, not only from Bobs oeuvre, but in general. Most of the action takes place at a restaurant dinner table and is intercut with scenes that explain the stories the people are telling. The ending really grabs the audience and you dont expect what happens next.
I got a chance to talk with Bob about his short tenure on Saturday Night Live, Mr. Shows point of view and I didnt geek out on him too much.
Check out the website for Melvin Goes to Dinner
Daniel Robert Epstein: I liked Melvin Goes to Dinner.
Bob Odenkirk: Thank you. Youre great.
DRE: Ive been a fan for many years so its very nice to get to talk to you.
BO: Its nice of you to support the movie. Im so knocked out by the people who are calling me about Melvin. I had a woman call me and she just loved it so much. She just was gushing about it. Its very different from most of the stuff people have seen from me. It turned out well and I am proud of it.
DRE: How did you connect with the play Phyro-Giants when you saw it?
BO: I thought the writing and the performances were great. I thought it was very entertaining which is a very generic way of stating its quality. I sat and watched the play probably five or six times. I think there is a lot of ways for people to take it. Every audience liked it, some thought it was funny, others thought it was sadder, some people empathized with the characters in the way they dissemble their own thoughts. I thought there were a lot of angles in for people to find it interesting. There were levels to it I liked.
DRE: I read this one quote where [screenwriter] Michael [Blieden] sees them as sweetly pathetic while you see them as ridiculously pathetic.
BO: Yeah I do. It would be very easy for me to say they are a bunch of assholes. On the other hand they are assholes just like me. If you were to hear me sit and talk to a friend about relationships or my dreams I think I would sound just as big of an asshole. Its a weird thing. Some people dont like the characters and its funny because I always I feel like those people may not like them but thats actually what they are like.
DRE: When you feel comfortable in front of your friends the asshole in you can come out.
BO: Yeah thats true. But people in movies arent supposed to be relatively young white people with some money whose issues are fucking around. People in movies are supposed to be chasing after money and trying to stay alive.
There is something that seems frivolous and indulgent about it but that is what happens when four people go out and share what they are doing. If they really get into it like these characters do, those are things that they are going to talk about.
DRE: Do you think you would have been able to do this movie ten years ago?
BO: I think I would have appreciated the writing ten years ago just as much. But Im not sure I would have done it.
DRE: Youre at a point in your life when you can look back on the characters as the way you used to be. Because now you have a family.
BO: Yeah I dont know, maybe I could have done it five years ago.
DRE: What was it like having Michael as the lead actor, screenwriter and later on the editor as well?
BO: He was great. We had an amazing working relationship. He listened to every observation I had and considered every suggestion I made. When it came time to edit he would try to make any choice I made work and he did it very earnestly. Some worked and some didnt but he was very open. I thought he would be and I knew it was hard for him to fuck with his own work as much as I wanted him to but he did it.
DRE: What made you want to do something as ambitious as shooting the restaurant table scenes with five cameras?
BO: What was great about those performances is that they were dead on so that was the only was to capture them. They basically rehearsed it 70 times because they had done it in the theatre so much. If I had a single camera I dont think we would have kept continuity as easily. It really was about capturing this lively performance between four people. I wanted eight or ten cameras but I was only able to get five. The quality of the performances wouldnt come across with one camera.
DRE: You put a lot of comedians and sketch comedy people in the movie but obviously you didnt want to turn this into It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World or anything like that. Was it just easier to get these people or do you know how talented they could be, even in a movie thats not a full blown comedy?
BO: Theyre all fantastically talented and right for the parts. Thats why I asked them to do the roles. I wouldnt want this to turn into a Mr. Show movie. I was able to get them. I didnt feel like I overdid my connections with the comedy scene. David [Cross] and Jack [Black] are the hardcore comedy people. Melora Walters I didnt know at all. We just sent her the script and she said yes to it. Ive wanted to work with Maura Tierney for a long time and she was kind enough to give us a day and a half. Mauras part doesnt have a lot of meat to it but she was awesome. For such a slight part she brought so much to it. Shes a great presence onscreen.
DRE: Steven Spielberg said he had to put a lot of himself, his sentimentality, aside to do Schindler's List. Did you experience any of that with this movie because of your comedy background?
BO: I looked at ways to heighten certain moments in this piece. But Ive done a lot of work in this area too but people havent seen it. To me there arent two different Bobs. Its all me and I like all these different styles. If something is good then its good. Everything doesnt have to be in the same tone or same level of comedy.
DRE: Do you feel like youve mastered sketch comedy and thats why you wanted to put this type of movie out there?
BO: It wasnt like I was looking for something to do that would be more serious or realistic. If I hadnt seen this play I wouldnt have made this movie. I just want to do good stuff and I wanted to shoot this movie. I still do sketch level comedy. David and I just wrote a movie thats sketches linked together to make a movie. Im really proud of it and I hope we get to make it. Its very much like Mr. Show so I still love sketch.
DRE: Adrian Tomine [of Drawn & Quarterly fame] drew the Melvin Goes to Dinner poster. How did you discover his work?
BO: Ive been a fan of his for years. Friends of mine got me into the whole scene of Eightball, Optic Nerve and Jimmy Corrigan. I love all those graphic novels.
DRE: Troy Miller [director of Run Ronnie Run] told me you, David and he had made up after what happened when editing Run Ronnie Run.
BO: Hes insane. Hes out of his fucking mind. That is nuts. Hes a fucking nut.
DRE: So you still feel the same about Run Ronnie Run and him?
BO: Oh yeah. Were really mad at him. David and I are both really mad at him. He fucked us up. He fucked our careers up and fucked us really hard. He did an awful thing. We dont have anything to do with him and never will.
DRE: Thats too bad.
BO: It is too bad but it was his choice. He was the one who kicked us out of editing. We didnt have any power. He had all the power and he knew it. He used it to beat the shit out of us. It was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. It was just a nightmare that went on for months. The guy basically tortured me and fucked up our careers majorly. We cant get another movie and hes made another movie. I made an independent movie that Im very proud of and I think its better than anything hes ever done or will do. But he really fucked us up and he knew he was going to also. When he kicked us out of editing I told him that this was my whole career youre fucking with. He said I know. Get out of here.
I have two kids. I need to work. Run Ronnie Run didnt come out because its not very good. Its got a few moments but overall its not very good and I dont blame New Line for not putting it out. It would have eaten shit just like all his other movies. But if we had gotten to cut it I think it would have been a much better movie. I know that because we cut Mr. Show without him and thats great.
DRE: I always heard that what makes good sketch comedy is a point of view. Have you and David narrowed down what Mr. Shows point of view was? Like a philosophy.
BO: I dont know how to put it. We would sit down and think of funny stuff then we would make an effort to make it about something. If we had a silly notion we would ask ourselves what it addressed, what social issue or human interaction could people relate to. Basically to make it about something which I know that sounds crazy. When you think of Mr. Show you think of a lot of crazy moments and stuff but things like blowing up the moon is the government selling people on whatever its going to do. The gung ho patriotic attitude. You could even say it applies to the Iraq situation.
To put it in a simple way. If the idea was just awesomely funny and silly than we just did it. But otherwise we would break it down and ask Whats it about and how can we point that out? I think that gives it some value.
DRE: Listening to the commentary on the Mr. Show DVDs you seem to be the hardest on yourself and the sketches. I would imagine that youve worked with so many people and done so many brilliant works that you are the only one would be that critical of you.
BO: There are people who could be [laughs]. Trust me.
DRE: Why are you so hard on yourself?
BO: At the core of what we do as comics is that were honest about life. The core of comedy is honesty, puncturing hypocrisies and stating things in a blunt honest way. This is whats really going on here. I think the honesty which I apply to the world and try to make comedy out of, I apply to myself and my friends. Im critical of my friends and they fucking hate it. They get so upset and I think it really hurts their feelings. But I say, Thats what were doing. I can make fun of George Bush but I cant make fun of you. I can point out the ways in which society, people and pop culture is hypocritical, stupid and ludicrous but I cant point out the ways I am cheating in my reasoning. I should apply that harsh critical eye to myself and everybody. But the thing that is strange is how many comic minds can see ridiculousness in the world, point it out and be irate about it but cant see it in themselves. That I dont get. I would say there is work of mine that is just good enough for what the joke is, or the joy it brings or the fun it delivers but there is a lot of stuff thats weak. You should be able to point out the weak stuff.
DRE: I spoke to Harry Shearer a couple of years ago. He said that every person involved with Saturday Night Live will secretly tell you they hate it. What was your experience?
BO: It wasnt a good experience overall but I got a lot of good things out of it. I shouldnt have done it but hindsight is 20/20.
DRE: You shouldnt have done it?
BO: No I think I would have developed more interesting and in a healthier way in my life if I hadnt done it. But what are you going to do? You arent going to say no to that job. I just wasnt prepared for it in a lot of ways and it fucked with me.
DRE: How was it hard on you?
BO: Both personally and professionally. New York is very overwhelming and I was not in a healthy mindset. I wasnt very sure of myself and the show really fucks with you. If you dont have your feet on the ground when you go there youre fucked.
DRE: Do you have good memories from working on Get a Life?
BO: Sort of, the second season wasnt as good as the first season, and the second season is the one I wrote for. I liked that show but I felt bad about it. I could tell something was wrong and I found out later that Chris [Elliott] and [co-creator] Adam Resnick were disappointed in where the show had gone. How they had been frozen out in the second season. They didnt get executive producer credits which they were promised. They were upset and they kind of distanced themselves from the show. I didnt know why at the time. It wasnt as good as it should have been but I had fun doing it.
The most fun Ive had so far was directing Melvin Goes to Dinner and Mr. Show. Mr. Show was very rewarding but very stressful at times because I was executive producing it. I was very anxious about it but it was also really great because it was funny as shit.
DRE: Were you happy with the Mr. Show live tour?
BO: It was just ok. We didnt have a great show. We kind of slapped that show together. We didnt have a lot of time and we were tired but we had a good time on the road. It was good to see fans and perform again. Its also a learning process. We learned about traveling with a show and the next time we do it well have a really good show thats built to travel. We will do it again.
DRE: Can Tenacious D work as a movie?
BO: Absolutely. Those guys are massively talented. Jack is a force of nature. I love him so much.
DRE: Were you a troublemaker as a youth?
BO: Not really. I was a class clown that was tolerated because I think the teacher sensed that I was kind of smart not to kiss my own ass. I was able to goof around a lot and make fun of people and situations. My teachers would just let me do it. They just gave me a lot of freedom to be goofy. I was disruptive. Only one or two teachers ever called my parents in to make me stop. Most of them not only tolerated me but seemed to enjoy it.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
VIEW 15 of 15 COMMENTS
cindarrr:
I love Bob Odenkirk, i love David cross as well. I actually have talked to bob odenkirk, my friend works at a cell phone place and we got a bunch of famous peoples phone numbers and called them, sarah jessica parker, kevin bacon, and Bob, but he was the only person that answered the phone. I told him that I pee in the shower.
travelmo:
IT'S ALL ABOUT BOB AND DAVE FROM MR. SHOW! HEY!!! IT'S PIT PAT!!! 