But "advice and consent" sure is in there. I believe it's in one of the bigger Articles near the front.

Looks like it.

My sentiments exactly...

...unfortunately



[Edited on Apr 25, 2005 8:56PM]

My bloodpressure can't take reading this entire thread at this minute, so if any of this is redundant, I'm sorry.

I've been to Bob Jones University. It's super creepy. Also, does anyone else find it funny that the school's initials are BJU? Ha! Juvenilia is fun.

Anyway, I still don't understand how the right can reconcile supporting this, but be so against Affirmative Action. In fact, this is Affirmative Action exactly (except that there was real discrimination leading to the institution of AA). If there is actual evidence that conservatives are being discriminated against because of their political affiliation, then I will be the first to say it is wrong. However, I don't think that is something they have you divulge on your resume or ask you in the interview ("So your vitae looks superb, but whom did you vote for the the last gubernatorial election? Oh, I'm sorry, we were looking for Jim Hodges. Well, sorry it didn't work out."). The system cannot be faulted because a certain group tends to gravitate toward that vocation. I mean, what is the discrepancy between liberals and conservatives in the business world? Hey, maybe I should start a campaign to insert more white players in the NBA. I don't think that African-Americans are necessarily that much more physically gifted than whites, but there obviously are many more African-Americans in the NBA. It could be because more African-Americans tend to pursue it seriously. It may be something else, who knows. But I can't expect to force David Stern to cajole the owners into allowing more whites just because they are underrepresented. Republicans should just encourage others conservatives to pursue academia. The more qualified person should get the job. Period. And incidentally, despite my being liberal, I think Affirmative Action has run its course.

And I've never been at the receiving end of any political tirades. In five years of undergrad I never had a teacher get off on a tangent about politics in a non-political science course. In fact, in my Poli-Sci courses, I never had a teacher espouse their own political views. They presented the material without bias. My favorite teacher was a Republican (Well, I assume he still is). But I didn't find that out until mid-way through my second course with him. And then I found out outside of class. Still, I think we need to uphold academic freedom at all costs. Professors should feel free to discuss what they will. It shouldn't be legislated. However, if it's a Chemistry class it doesn't make sense to talk about the war on terror. They probably shouldn't do that, but they should not be forced not to do that. If we start censoring professors, when will it end? It's a dangerous game.

Just want to add that none of the NBA talk was intended to be racist. I don't think it will read as such, but I want to make it very clear I wasn't making racist statements. I'm paranoid about that sort of thing, and about getting zotted. I was just trying to make an analogy.


[Edited on Apr 25, 2005 by mamet]

I know i'll probably get some hate mail for this, but historically (well in the past 40 years at least) it has been the democrats and liberals whom have tried to educate the young. Please understand I am not generalizing.

They believe in getting information to the public to help inform them about the world around them. While elitist (not generalizing republicans, some are actualy wicked cool) believe only the elite should have knowledge.

Think about it, all those financial aid cuts going on, hurts the lower and middle class, while the "old moneY" isn't effected at all.

ok i'm done.

Maybe not in the US. But I have an Australian example, care of Tim Lambert (describing conservative columnist Miranda Devine).

"Yes, it's time that the elitist notion that what gets published in scientific journals be accurate is done away with! Let a thousand falsehoods bloom!"

Meantime, I wanted to post this comment from Brad deLong about this issue.

Here's the full piece.

Let's keep in mind that in StockulaLand, Ward Churchill is an example of rampant academic leftism, while Larry Summers is an example of political correctness run riot.

And me! It has me!

No, seriously, I'm a conservative guy, but I tend to pretty mellow about it. Here at CU, where Horowitz cites, many of the professors are way out of line. If it is a liberal arts course, I can see bringing politics into it. I'm tired of seeing it in other course, though. There shouldn't be anything political about math and science.

I think that most people would agree that tirades about any sort of politics do not belong in classes that do not relate to them. So I can see where Horowitz is coming from; it does happen here. All the time.

I'm not arguing about what the professor's beliefs need to be; if there are 100% liberal professors, fine. I'm just asking that politics be kept to the political science courses. No need for them in Calculus 3 or Plasma Physics, thanks.

Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2: [The President] [...] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

So in other words, since Republicans have filibustered judicial nominations in the past, it should be okay for Democrats to do so as well. Right?

Getting back on topic, I personally have had only a handful of professors in my college years who were vocal about their political beliefs, and they split about halfway between conservative and liberal. The only prof I can remember being overtly disrespectful was a hardcore conservative, and this in a journalism class of all places. He would frequently veer off into political discussions that were not even tangentially related to what we were supposed to be talking about, and on more than a few occasions vocally belittled students who countered his ideas. I remember one class in particular when we were talking about affirmative action for some reason, and recall the discussion getting so heated at one point that I thought the prof would end up getting his ass kicked for some of the obnoxious shit he was saying.

There is a lot of political bias on college campuses even when the bias isn't overt or spoken, but let's not make the foolish assumption that all, or even most, of it is liberal in nature. I would wager that to be the case in most liberal arts departments, but would also point out that, at least from my experience, liberal arts departments tend to be small and underfunded. Most of the energy on college campuses goes towards business, engineering, and stuff like that. I can't speak for the others, but I have taken business classes before and can say with certainty that the bias in those classes was decidedly conservative in nature. At the university I graduated from, and I'm sure this is the case in a lot of other schools, business students and professors vastly outnumbered those in the liberal arts departments. So if there is a bias problem on college campuses, I'd be willing to bet that it's conservative in nature, not liberal.

Well, I've attended a University and have had this happen with multiple professors--in some cases very subtely, in some cases, blatantly, in a manner that distracted me from the actual content of the class.

In my experience, it was rare occasions when this happened and it only happened because the majority of the class was engaged in the topic and kept the discussion going. It offers insight into the diversity of the class when you discuss something completely off topic. If it was just the teacher spewing his or her beliefs, that's not constructive. If the whole class is involved, I think it's reasonable. Any time people are communicating and civil to each other despite differing opinions, it's good.

It's not rare at CU. That's the problem.

I'm not saying that it matters what your politics are as a college professor or anywhere else. It's when it starts getting in the way of your job that it's a problem. I don't believe that people who are supposed to be educating us to be able to think for ourself and give an unbiased education should be ramming their ideas down our throats. It's generally overlooked, because it's so prevalent in some colleges and in academia in general. I'm sure these people think that they're "enlightening us" for our own good and that most people probably agree anyway.

If you can't keep your beliefs out of class, don't be a professor.

To be fair, I have heard of this happening on both sides, and it shouldn't be overlooked no matter the politics being represented. Liberalism in colleges is singled out because it's by far more prevalent than any other ideology.

Two things. It isn't prevalant where I am and this is a liberal arts university. www.unca.edu

second it is trick when starting a sentance with it but Liberalism and liberalism (what does that mean anyway?) are two differnt things. The big L means our system of goverment and people like John Stuart Mill. Most Americans would kill and die to defend the big L. I am one of them.

This would be more promising if it was Jerome Horwitz.