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  • TUESDAY FEBRUARY 22 2005 2:39 AM

Teacher Yanks Chair Out From Under Student For Refusing to Stand During National Anthem

Submitted by Attack_Macaque

Edited by Sean

In an ugly display of hyperjingoistic douchebaggery, Stuart Mantel, a high school teacher and wanna-be drill sergeant in Brick, New Jersey, was recently filmed flying into an unhinged rage when one of his students failed to stand for the national anthem. The episode ended with Mantel yanking a chair out from under the student.

Indymedia.org has a copy of the film here, and it's not pretty:

The class started out that morning with Mantel yelling, "I don't want to hear a sound! Not a sound! Morning exercises will come on, you will stand, you will stand quietly, you will pay attention! Any Questions? ...Now stand up and keep your mouths shut!" Students stood up as the national anthem began playing.

In the middle of the anthem, Mantel walked over to Jay and demanded that he stand up. Jay silently refused, and Mantel yelled again, "Stand up!". Jay then said "I don't have to stand up". To which Mantel insisted "You have to stand." Jay said "No I don't". Mantel then reached over and pulled Jay's chair out from under him. Jay responded to Stuart Mantel's outrageous behavior by asking Mantel, "Are you serious?", to which Mantel yelled, "I am damn well serious."

Incredibly, Mantel remains unpunished for his abusive (and unconstitutional) actions, while the student who filmed the incident was suspended 10 days for "violating the teacher's constitutional rights."

According to the student who filmed the incident, this was not the first time that something like this had happened in Mantel's classroom, and the students decided to bring a camera into their classroom in case Mantel flew off the handle again, so they could have evidence of his behavior. When they presented their evidence to the school's principal, however, they were met with hostility:

"The teacher and school principals wanted him (Mantel) to press charges against us...they tried to blame it on us like it was premeditated, like we did it just to get him on tape, which is false. We knew he was gonna go nuts because he frequently used to," said Corey [the student who filmed the incident].

One of the hallmarks of fascism is hyperbolic patriotism, and another is compulsory patriotism. To see them both displayed in an incident like this is disturbing, but what's even more disturbing is the indifference of school administrators to behavior that is not only clearly inappropriate but also illegal. Worse yet is the possibility that episodes like this may be happening with less fanfare in classrooms all over the country.

Hat tip: PissedOffPollyana @ Daily Kos

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Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

FEB 22, 2005 04:22 PM

bambam226 said:
People are forgetting the point of this thread......spank your kids ass when they get out of line, and teach them to be more respectfull to others. Parents need to shape their kids and be a bigger part in their lives. Oh and teachers, don't blow your cool. End of thread



Wow. I don't think you could possibly miss the point of this thread more. Congratulations. End of my paying attention to you.

s5

s5

STAFF

San Francisco, CA

FEB 22, 2005 04:59 PM

twasbrillig said:
Why is that? Is it because all of lifes situations are black and white?



the video i watched wasn't a video recording of every possible life situation.

Especially when we are hearing about it through a third party and have no idea the actual full context of the situation?



there is absolutely no context that would excuse or justify the actions on that video.

like i said, disturbing.

twasbrillig

twasbrillig

I'm lost
August 2003

FEB 22, 2005 06:00 PM

s5 said:

twasbrillig said:
Why is that? Is it because all of lifes situations are black and white?



the video i watched wasn't a video recording of every possible life situation.

Especially when we are hearing about it through a third party and have no idea the actual full context of the situation?



there is absolutely no context that would excuse or justify the actions on that video.

like i said, disturbing.



And you're more than entitled to that opinion. But everything is up for debate.

Dr_Zoidberg

Dr_Zoidberg

Raymore, MO
June 2004

FEB 22, 2005 06:29 PM

BillHaverchuck said:

Idjiit said:
I had a teacher in high school who used to flip over desks. While kids were seated at them. If only it was over the pledge of allegiance or something, then we would have had a story. Being an asshole on its own isn't enough to get fired, I guess.



One of our football coaches threw a desk with the student in it.


I would have bought tickets to that.

UnderFallingSky

UnderFallingSky

Florence, MA
January 2004

FEB 22, 2005 06:30 PM

Ella_1 said:
We had a teacher like that. He picked up a desk and threw it at my friend and I for talking during math. It hit my friend in the back of the head and she was put in hospital - did he get fired? NO.

He also wouldnt let one of the girls in my class go to the bathroom, he made her stand infront of the class and tell everyone why she needed to go. She said 'I have my fucking period and need a tampon', he slapped her and said she was full of shit and couldnt go to the bathroom becasue she would come back dumber.
[Edited on Feb 22, 2005 by Ella_1]



yeah, sure.

Brinstar

Brinstar

Chicago, IL
September 2002

FEB 22, 2005 06:45 PM

My aunt is a grade school teacher AND ended up in the psych ward once for going literally insane for a few days. As opposed to her every day life, which is just somewhat crazy.

I'm not sure that is a good combination, I always try imagining what her teaching class would be like...

Snidely_Whiplash

Snidely_Whiplash

New York, NY
September 2004

FEB 22, 2005 07:07 PM

KaliDoom said:
Your assault and battery definitions are perfect, as per my two legal studies courses.

I looked up the legal definitions on Dictionary.com just to be sure, though.

# Assault.

1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

# Battery.

Law. The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.

Assault is threatening to touch. Battery is making actual contact.


http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/22542B6F-FEDB-450A-889A82A49EA50CEB/alpha/A/

I don't think that a reasonable person would have felt bodily threatened by the teacher's actions. The kid wasn't even sitting on the chair when he grabbed it.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

FEB 22, 2005 07:34 PM

Snidely_Whiplash said:

KaliDoom said:
Your assault and battery definitions are perfect, as per my two legal studies courses.

I looked up the legal definitions on Dictionary.com just to be sure, though.

# Assault.

1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

# Battery.

Law. The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.

Assault is threatening to touch. Battery is making actual contact.


http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/22542B6F-FEDB-450A-889A82A49EA50CEB/alpha/A/

I don't think that a reasonable person would have felt bodily threatened by the teacher's actions. The kid wasn't even sitting on the chair when he grabbed it.



That definition doesn't say whether it is a subjective or objective standard. I'm guessing it's pretty much GOT to be an objective (reasonable person) standard, but if I remember correctly it's not just the AVERAGE reasonable person, it's a reasonable person in the KID's position. So we've got a kid who weighs about 130 pounds soaking wet and a teacher who looks like he goes about 5'10, 220.

I'm not at all sure that a reasonable person wouldn't have felt threatened. If the guy came at me like that (before he pulled the chair), I wouldn't have been sure if he was coming to kick my ass or what. He certainly looked threatening. He might've been pulling the chair away so he could have a clearer path to the kid to beat him up, and then changed his mind.

And how did the teacher know that the kid wasn't going to fall? It seems to me that he intended for the kid to stand or fall and didn't much care which. Why should the teacher be rewarded for assaulting a kid with good reflexes?

(These are the arguments I would make were the kid my client; whether or not a reasonable person would feel threatened in that situation would be a question for the jury. )

(Edited to add a semicolon. I love semicolons.)

[Edited on Feb 22, 2005 by Subrosa]

slayn001

slayn001

United Kingdom
February 2005

FEB 22, 2005 08:51 PM

<And how did the teacher know that the kid wasn't going to fall? It seems to me that he intended for the kid to stand or fall and didn't much care which. Why should the teacher be rewarded for assaulting a kid with good reflexes?>

because if you watch the video , the kid was already standing when the chair was pulled.

just for my general comments on this , before i downloaded teh video , i expected to see some crazy shit going on , teacher rampaging around the room , frightened children cowering in fear, etc.

after watching the video , the picture i have is of a class of kids who get their jollies annoying their teacher , and of a teacher who has simply become frustrated with their antics.

now , forced patriotism isn't right , but this seemed more like someone who grew up before it became acceptable to do whatever you please whenever you please, and is merely trying to pass that on.

Snidely_Whiplash

Snidely_Whiplash

New York, NY
September 2004

FEB 23, 2005 02:30 AM

...

[Edited on Feb 23, 2005 by Snidely_Whiplash]

drew031670

drew031670

Canada
November 2004

FEB 23, 2005 08:47 AM

MissTyrios said:

drew031670 said:
I don't see why pulling a chair out is such a big deal when 20, 30 years ago kids were getting belts and straps. I thought the kid fell on the floor or something, the kid stood up as he took the chair away. The teacher is just demanding respect. (But doesn't know how to do it besides yelling.) I remember in school when my teachers would still use huge rulers and smack your desk right in front of your face if you were out of line. Those were LOUD and definetely scared you.

Don't get me wrong I don't think the teacher is correct. He most likely shouldn't be a teacher. I can understand his anger, teachers have to go through a lot of bullshit and it's very rare to find one that everyone enjoys. But this guy should get a new profession. He reminds me of so many past teachers. Red faced, angry, and yelling.



Please, please read the posts above you. This is NOT necessarily an abuse issue, this is a Constitutional rights issue. NO ONE has to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance or for the National Anthem. It is a person's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

I can't do this over and over again. I'm going to eat pancakes now.



I understand that, but in my school we had to stand to sing the anthem and say lords prayer every morning. I'm anti-religious and not very patriotic but as long as you do it the teachers shut up.

smithers_jones

smithers_jones

I'm lost
November 2003

FEB 23, 2005 10:05 AM

drew031670 said:

I understand that, but in my school we had to stand to sing the anthem and say lords prayer every morning. I'm anti-religious and not very patriotic but as long as you do it the teachers shut up.



Rebel.

squee_

squee_

Grand Marais, MN
September 2004

FEB 23, 2005 10:12 AM

Subrosa said:

Snidely_Whiplash said:

KaliDoom said:
Your assault and battery definitions are perfect, as per my two legal studies courses.

I looked up the legal definitions on Dictionary.com just to be sure, though.

# Assault.

1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

# Battery.

Law. The unlawful and unwanted touching or striking of one person by another, with the intention of bringing about a harmful or offensive contact.

Assault is threatening to touch. Battery is making actual contact.


http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/22542B6F-FEDB-450A-889A82A49EA50CEB/alpha/A/

I don't think that a reasonable person would have felt bodily threatened by the teacher's actions. The kid wasn't even sitting on the chair when he grabbed it.



That definition doesn't say whether it is a subjective or objective standard. I'm guessing it's pretty much GOT to be an objective (reasonable person) standard, but if I remember correctly it's not just the AVERAGE reasonable person, it's a reasonable person in the KID's position. So we've got a kid who weighs about 130 pounds soaking wet and a teacher who looks like he goes about 5'10, 220.

I'm not at all sure that a reasonable person wouldn't have felt threatened. If the guy came at me like that (before he pulled the chair), I wouldn't have been sure if he was coming to kick my ass or what. He certainly looked threatening. He might've been pulling the chair away so he could have a clearer path to the kid to beat him up, and then changed his mind.

And how did the teacher know that the kid wasn't going to fall? It seems to me that he intended for the kid to stand or fall and didn't much care which. Why should the teacher be rewarded for assaulting a kid with good reflexes?

(These are the arguments I would make were the kid my client; whether or not a reasonable person would feel threatened in that situation would be a question for the jury. )

(Edited to add a semicolon. I love semicolons.)

[Edited on Feb 22, 2005 by Subrosa]



Given that the courts have previously ruled that grabbing a plate out of someone's hand is battery*, I don't think it would take much to argue that this is assault.

*Fisher v. Carrousel Motor Hotel
424 S.W.2d 627 (Tex. 1967)

bones_708

bones_708

Houston, TX
December 2004

FEB 23, 2005 11:27 AM

squee said:


Given that the courts have previously ruled that grabbing a plate out of someone's hand is battery*, I don't think it would take much to argue that this is assault.

*Fisher v. Carrousel Motor Hotel
424 S.W.2d 627 (Tex. 1967)



Given that the relationship betweent the two is much diffrent as well as the intent being diffrent, would you think it's a good case to put infrount of a jury? Little reality please.

Subrosa

Subrosa

San Francisco, CA
July 2004

FEB 23, 2005 03:15 PM

bones_708 said:

squee said:


Given that the courts have previously ruled that grabbing a plate out of someone's hand is battery*, I don't think it would take much to argue that this is assault.

*Fisher v. Carrousel Motor Hotel
424 S.W.2d 627 (Tex. 1967)



Given that the relationship betweent the two is much diffrent as well as the intent being diffrent, would you think it's a good case to put infrount of a jury? Little reality please.



Not sure what you mean by your last statement, but I think squee was just pointing out that IN REALITY (i.e. legal precedent dictates), it wouldn't be hard to make out the case at all. That has nothing to do with whether this specific case would be a good one to bring in front of a jury.

A question was asked a while back as to whether this would qualify as assault. We were answering that in the affirmative.

Little civility, please.

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