sean, if you talked to moderate muslims, you'd know that they have been condeming all this stuff.

i'm tired of people saying that muslims arn't condeming it, just because you arnt seeing it on television.

i guess if a tree falls in the woods...


i couldnt get to the links because my ISP is shit.

I'm tired of every tragedy being seized upon to make the same tired "Muslims want to kill everyone" argument.

I wonder what Muslims would have to do to satisfy certain people. Convert to Christianity en masse, I suppose.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

Yeah, I'm sure that at the mosque they have targets set up shaped like little children.

They had their chance during the Crusades!

(I shouldn't have to say this, but here it is: I'm being sarcastic.)


[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 9:57AM]

Excellent piece of unbiased reporting, Sean.

Good thing we're waiting to gather plenty of information from independent sources instead of just using the word of the Russian and American right-wing news media to make sweeping accusations.

Umm… he’s right. That’s what they deserve for not blinding following us on our charge against Cobra Commander!

I’m sure it was the Evildoers that killed the kids, since the Good guys didn’t just have a similar incident where they killed a 170+ people. It’s interesting that some reports even link the hostage takers in the theater incident back to the Russian government. I’ll try to dig some of that back up after I get done at work.

i know its wrong of me too think this but i question islamic people as a whole for not comdemning these things more
i just dont hear too many saying this isnt islam its radicals

I know its off-topic a bit, but going through the link that contrast put up had something in the website that made me extremely happy to see, as I've had this discussion with several muslim friends of mine...

Women's Rights in Islam

and no, its not a contradiction

How about:
This, or this?




[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by Clunk]

Please stop blaming this amorphous concept called 'Islamic Fundamentalists' for everything.

There's no consensus on this yet, so in the meantime it's wrong to jump on the 'IF' bandwagon like all the populist media will do.

I'm sick to death of hearing the link made between religion and terror. It's an old cliche, but why do we not call ourselves Christian Fundamentalists (Republican Convention anyone?) as we bomb innocent people in a far off country we chose to invade?

Terrorists are terrorists. Please break the populist link to religion. It's dangerous and making the world more and more polarised.

You're right, you shouldn't have to qualify that, but sometimes you just can't be too cautious... *sigh*

This whole thing is a mess and blaming an entire people or religion or whatever is the easiest thing to do. It's not right, but it happens.

Blame the hardliners, blame the fanatics, blame the cowards who hide behind their masks (and even behind the mosques...), but don't blame the entire group.

Well, that, and I think it's too early to really say we know what happened in that school, especially when we're dealing with a special forces operation that's shown difficultly dealing with situations like this in any sort of delicate way. I mean, I will say with no equivocation, absolutely, that the ultimate responsibility for what happens rests with those Chechen asshats who seized the school. Of course. I'm just wondering if the number of dead had to go so high. Maybe it did, maybe the Russians saved more lives than they cost. It's just too early to tell.

(on edit: and I see from the BBC story linked above there's some questions if they're Chechens at all. This is just an all-around mess.)


[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by jake_lex]

Please allow me to interject. I'm a Religious Studies/ Political Science/ Psychology major with specific intentions of working for Homeland Security after I finally earn my Master's. That said, Islam is no more a religion of radicals than Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion that has a hint of violence in its sacred texts.

It is incredibly unfortunate that the most radical and media-exposed of today's militants come from Islamic background. The word Islam itself means "surrender" or to be more specific "surrender before God"...demanding humility and humbleness from all adherents.

The religion has been used as a recruitment device by militants for expressing political anger and retribution for centuries of Western dominance over their homelands. We can't forget about the British Empire and its stubborn desire to rule that entire part of the world. The violence also stems from a long history of brutal inter-tribe warfare that has no real religious basis...it's politics as well. The people in those regions haven't forgotten and still hold grudges. Those grudges are perpetuated by the loans given out by our government to their corrupt governments. The people never see that money but end up having to pay it back through ridiculous tax hikes by their leaders. This is a political war masked by religious fanaticism.

One major step in the "war on terrorism" would be to cancel the debts owed to us by low income nations. What about that money that we depend on from them? It will be a hit to our economy at first. But eventually the people of those countries will actually be able to earn money, thus increasing their ability to trade with other nations, thus increasing (to many's chagrin) the capitalist strength of the world.

Before anyone rants on about the evils of capitalism please allow me to state that war between capitalist countries is far less likely than war between communist, socialist, or imperialist countries. We live in a global society and must adapt to it. Yes, there will always be problems...that's what valid solutions are for...not waving signs around and throwing verbal feces at eachother (yes that is a jab at protestors).

Capitalism is flawed, as is every other system of economic or governmental rule but in today's world it is the system we must live by until somebody comes up with something better, more adaptable, and more feasible.

Back to my point, if these terrorist-producing countries finally had money going to and benefiting the masses there would be far less rage against the Western world and a bridge would be built for us all to communicate and understand one another. Pardon the pun but we have to concentrate on building bridges, not burning them. This is the only way problems can truely be solved and friendships can truely be made.

One side note, if any are interested in the nonviolence exhibitied by Islam, I recommend you pick up a book called "Nonviolent Soldier of Islam" it's about a man named Badshah Khan, a follower of Ghandi who created a nonviolent "army" of over 100,000 individuals in what is present-day Afghanistan & Pakistan.

okay, that i disagree with.

fundamentalist religous thought lends itself to terrorism. you can cite examples over and over again, using different religions and different centuries. its absolutely fair to link terrorism to religion.

i just don't think its fair to implicate all people who identify themselves with a religion as condoning terrorism.

[Edited on Sep 04, 2004 by contrast]