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  • WEDNESDAY JULY 29 2009 10:00 AM

Richard Farrell: The Two Hour Orgasm

Submitted by nicole_powers

Edited by nicole_powers

Addiction first took hold of Richard Farrell after a torn knee put an end to hopes of a professional athletics career. That same injury started his relationship with pain medication. One thing led to another, as these things do, and by the time he reached thirty Farrell had succumbed to almost every aspect of the heroin lifestyle.

His journey to redemption is chronicled in his new memoir, What's Left of Us. Farrell was one of the lucky ones; after twenty failed attempts, he slayed his dragon at a run-down, state-funded detox clinic in Massachusetts, and went on to fulfill his potential as an author, journalist, teacher, filmmaker and screenwriter.

Many addicts will not be so fortunate. Clinics such as these are the easy victims of budget cuts. As bankrupt states struggle to pick up the incarceration tab for the collateral damage of the War on Drugs, and our federal government goes deeper into debt to pay for its War on (drug-funded) Terror, Farrell's life experience leads him to pose an important question: Have we forgotten the simple laws of supply and demand? By funding these two never-ending wars are we ineffectually treating the symptoms instead of battling the cause? Wouldn't our money be better spent reducing the demand for drugs?

The state-funded treatment of drug addiction has never been a vote-winning cause (just look at the tap dancing Obama was forced to do recently on the prickly issue of needle exchange programs). Here, in this special guest column, Farrell makes the case for a more enlightened drug (and healthcare) policy and talks of the horrors that will likely transpire if we continue on our current course, which is tantamount to treating cancer with a gold-plated plaster -- ridiculous, ineffectual, expensive and ultimately fatal.



Richard Farrell: The Two Hour Orgasm

I took heroin only once. But for three years, heroin took me to anyplace it wanted to. I stole, robbed, hustled, and did whatever was necessary to keep a 10-bag-a-day habit in full throttle.

Heroin is amazing. It is the devil. Heroin is like riding the peak of an orgasm for hours. It sucks you in, removes all your doubt and fears in a heartbeat. In less than three seconds, its warm snake grabs onto your heart and sets you free. I've been clean for over 22 years. But not one day goes by that I do not remember the mighty power of heroin's ensnare.

Back then, to most, I was a scumbag junkie who should have been locked up. The majority of people in America believe addiction is a moral issue. Sadly, the current administration's policy is a shadow of those beliefs.

President Obama has failed to confront the issue of free and immediate health care for all addicts seeking help. This is not only an egregious oversight but arguably an error that has the potentiality to crumble America from within.

Recently, President Obama created a four point plan of attack. First up on his agenda will be an all out effort to crackdown on drug use in our cities and towns. Next he'll be sending an increased, unspecified amount of US Border Patrol Agents to facilitate his third point of action. For the first time ever, the US Border Patrol will be conducting inspections of all trains and cars exiting the United States. And finally, Obama released $59 million to Homeland Security for immediate execution in the war against drugs.

On paper it appears to be a comprehensive attack. But the goal of reducing drug use in America and thereby decreasing demand of illegal drugs entering from Mexico will not be effective without an emergency health care plan that allows access to rehabilitation hospitals for drug addicts seeking recovery. There simply are not enough jails in America to hold the mounting numbers of drug addicts. Those suffering from this addiction only have two choices every morning -- repeat or recover.

Recently, the New York Times ran a story about Dana Smith, a mother who had just lost her son to heroin. The facts are gruesome, horrific. This was Dana Smith's third son lost to a heroin overdose. She said her boys "fell like dominoes."

But what strikes me is the location of where her kids died. Not in New York City, Detroit, Miami, or Los Angeles, but on the streets of Grove City, Ohio, in the heartland of America.

Heroin is back. The Federal Drug Administration has no way of adequately policing the vast network of crisscrossing highways in Middle America. Drug-traffickers understand their advantage here and are mounting an all out war for control of America's suburbs.

But there is another large ingredient to add to this potpourri. The fucking wheels have come off the United States economy. From coast to coast, fear, unemployment, crime, and mental depression have reached all-time highs.

And heroin is the perfect answer. It doesn't matter if you're a teenager whose parents have lost their jobs and homes. Or you're a returning soldier who has seen shit nobody should ever remember. Heroin, with its seductive magic, will free all from the uncertainties our future holds.

And the Taliban leadership in Afghanistan is mindfully aware of heroin's effect on the youth in the United States. In 2007, they earned $300 million from Afghan poppy farms. Most people fear the insurgence of the Taliban and their poppy farm profits which they're using to fund terrorism around the world. But President Obama and his administration are being fooled. The Taliban are after our youth and nobody on Capitol Hill has a clue.

They have forgotten about Virgil's epic poem The Aeneid. During the ten years of a failed siege on Troy, the Greeks built a large wooden horse in the darkness of night. One day the Greeks pretended to sail away and the Trojans pulled the horse into their city as a victory prize. However, inside were members of the Greek army who opened the gates. The Greek army retuned and destroyed Troy.

Heroin is our Trojan horse. You see, when I shot heroin it was $30 a bag. Today, because Afghanistan produces 90% of poppy seeds around the world, it is $5 a bag.

Any fuckin' questions?!

Bottom line, President Obama must confront the ever increasing popularity of heroin in America's heartland. We need to focus more tax dollars on free comprehensive health care. It is quite simple; the demand for heroin is increasing daily. The Taliban has the supply, the economy is spiraling downward, and hundreds of American kids are reaching out for euphoria.

Each and every new heroin addict is in search of that two-hour orgasm, but by the time heroin is finished, it will rob them of their souls. In the end, heroin will leave them and their families with nothing but pain, anguish, and death.

Mr. President, I personally do not know one single heroin addict with health insurance.



Richard Farrell is an author, filmmaker, teacher, journalist, and adjunct professor of English at the University of Massachusetts in Lowell. His documentary, High on Crack Street, was aired on HBO and received Columbia University's duPont Award. His memoir, What's Left of Us, published by Citadel Press, is out now. He is the screenwriter for the upcoming film The Fighter, which stars Christian Bale and Mark Wahlberg.


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Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

JUL 30, 2009 09:14 AM

Stiles said:

Viking said:

I agree with you, but I've heard the argument that by keeping substances illegal, they make it harder to get hold of, and therefore less people do it. I'm not sure what I think about that, personally, but it sounds plausible.

(Great article, thanks.)



I can't speak for how it is in the UK, but here in the US nearly every illegal or controlled drug is readily available without much effort. Quality and purity are often suspect, but if you have the money and aren't picky pot, heroin, cocaine, pills, meth, etc. aren't hard to buy - so I'd say the "illegality makes it harder to get" argument only holds true if you're comparing illegal drugs to ease of access of legal drugs like alcohol and nicotine.




Word. I'd like to add that I think the illegal aspect (taboo) is part of the draw for many people. I'm not saying there aren't people who would do drugs if they were legal, but if the whole "rebel" aspect of drug use was gone, I would think that would take away the appeal for some.

Thanks for the links, gfvella

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

JUL 30, 2009 09:23 AM

herbancowboy said:
I thought heroin was overrated from the first time I did it at my elite university in downtown Manhattan in the mid 1990s. Remember those days? Everybody was passing around dogeared copies of TRAINSPOTTING and saying shooting smack was better than the best orgasm and waiting for the movie version to come out. TRAINSPOTTING and THE BASKETBALL DIARIES. We thought we were so cool.

I thought it was overrated but ended up doing it recreationally all through college while holding down jobs, having a normal social life, and graduating early. Lost my best friend to an overdose along the way, though, but I managed to avoid picking up a daily habit until I graduated and started working full time. Had to skip town and go back packing through India to figure out there was better shit to do with my time than drool and scratch myself.

Years later, I found myself living in San Francisco's Mission District and getting an unemployment check in the mail when I noticed people slinging on my very own corner--I could just stumble out of bed and cop dope! Didn't take long to get strung out again, but I did maintain--keeping jobs and paying my bills--for over a year before I wound up back at mom and dad's, approaching 30 with a fancy degree and nasty habit. Got arrested for felony possession (0.25 grams--there's no such thing as misdemeanor possession of heroin) and, as a first time offender (first time getting caught!) wound up on probation for three years. That really sucked--I couldn't get a decent job or leave the county and lots of other things. I would not have been able to attend graduate school if they had not released me from probation early (which they did--after 20, rather than 36, months).

I call myself an anarchist but it took the state and the threat of further loss of my freedom to straighten me out, and I am grateful. I tried lots of ways to quit, but I always held on to that delusion that I could go back to "recreational" use. For a stubborn, thinking-he's-smarter-than-everybody addict like me, state power was probably the only thing that would have worked to give me enough clean time to realize that my life is so much better without that shit. I will pop a fistful of painkillers a couple of times a year just to remind myself what I'm not missing--it's really not that great and then I'm sleepy for two days after. I still get treated like a second-class citizen sometimes (like when I honestly answer the criminal background stuff on job applications), but I'm still better off than when I was strung out and blame nobody but myself.

That said, herb should be fully legal like it is in California. And today is three weeks since I smoked a cigarette!



Thank you for your post. It makes me feel even more strongly that if/when drugs are legal, they should come with HEAVY regulation. I don't like the idea of drug addicts being stigmatized for a medical addiction when there isn't much of an infrastructure in place to deal with said addiction.

Prison time doesn't count as drug rehab. Some people may have rehabbed because of it, but I think prison time causes more problems than it solves with non-violent offenders.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

JUL 30, 2009 11:31 AM

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.

Otoki

Otoki

SUICIDEGIRL

Minnesota, USA

JUL 30, 2009 11:39 AM

Gringo said:

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.


It's a nice thought. Don't know if it would actually happen, but it would sure be nice.

ChrisSick

ChrisSick

Philadelphia, PA
March 2008

JUL 30, 2009 11:55 AM

Gringo said:

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.



That's not really how addiction works, man. One doesn't become addicted to specific additives that are within the drugs, which can be intentionally reduced (or increased) to affect how likely you are to become addicted to something. Rather your body begins to rely on chemicals which you are artificially adding to it, in some cases-- as with many anti-depressants-- these chemicals are naturally produced by your body & brain, so all you're doing is inhibiting or increasing their production. In others these chemicals produce similar effects but differ from those your body produces. Its my understanding of chemical addiction that in large part, that is the basis for physical addiction, while the intense feelings are the basis for psychological addiction, which in-and-of-itself can be more dangerous. Breaking a physical addiction to heroin just requires an uncomfortable stay in a room with a locked door, some buckets, & a shitload of magazines. Breaking a psychological addiction is what the original author was discussing, & that can take years & tons of therapy, medication, & support.

(...)

On a related note, pharmaceutical companies are already a big part of the drug game, as I mentioned previously with oxycontin as an example, they produce synthetic heroin, as well as a vast array of amphetamines that used to be sold as 'diet aids'. While I'm sure the illicit trade of their medications does little for their public image, it probably doesn't hurt their bottom line in anyway.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

JUL 30, 2009 12:20 PM

I am still assuming by the way that none of these drugs would be sold at say a convenience store but rather at pharmacies. An addict would still have to make a special trip for that. And using arguments (including Devils Reject's post) in regards to availability - I'm not sure how having these products in a retail environment is much different than a heroin addict being able to pick up a cell phone and dial one or two numbers and meeting someone on the street or whatever within a minute.

I wasn't addressing the immediate needs of an addict in my post. I guess I was talking more long-term benefits of the legalization because I was thinking from a retail perspective. I was suggesting that once drugs were legal to produce for resale, the pharm companies would (at least I assume) be driven to come up with recreational drugs that would have less severe side effects and less addictive properties.

As far as addressing current addicts, as mentioned by you, legalizing drugs would mean treatment would be more readily available for addicts. There also could be some sort of program where if an addict enters a treatment program, that they wear a wristband that would indicate they can't be sold to - or maybe some sort of "do not sell" designation on their own driver's license/ID.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

JUL 30, 2009 02:50 PM

herbancowboy said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)
I thought heroin was overrated from the first time I did it at my elite university in downtown Manhattan in the mid 1990s. Remember those days? Everybody was passing around dogeared copies of TRAINSPOTTING and saying shooting smack was better than the best orgasm and waiting for the movie version to come out. TRAINSPOTTING and THE BASKETBALL DIARIES. We thought we were so cool.

I thought it was overrated but ended up doing it recreationally all through college while holding down jobs, having a normal social life, and graduating early. Lost my best friend to an overdose along the way, though, but I managed to avoid picking up a daily habit until I graduated and started working full time. Had to skip town and go back packing through India to figure out there was better shit to do with my time than drool and scratch myself.

Years later, I found myself living in San Francisco's Mission District and getting an unemployment check in the mail when I noticed people slinging on my very own corner--I could just stumble out of bed and cop dope! Didn't take long to get strung out again, but I did maintain--keeping jobs and paying my bills--for over a year before I wound up back at mom and dad's, approaching 30 with a fancy degree and nasty habit. Got arrested for felony possession (0.25 grams--there's no such thing as misdemeanor possession of heroin) and, as a first time offender (first time getting caught!) wound up on probation for three years. That really sucked--I couldn't get a decent job or leave the county and lots of other things. I would not have been able to attend graduate school if they had not released me from probation early (which they did--after 20, rather than 36, months).

I call myself an anarchist but it took the state and the threat of further loss of my freedom to straighten me out, and I am grateful. I tried lots of ways to quit, but I always held on to that delusion that I could go back to "recreational" use. For a stubborn, thinking-he's-smarter-than-everybody addict like me, state power was probably the only thing that would have worked to give me enough clean time to realize that my life is so much better without that shit. I will pop a fistful of painkillers a couple of times a year just to remind myself what I'm not missing--it's really not that great and then I'm sleepy for two days after. I still get treated like a second-class citizen sometimes (like when I honestly answer the criminal background stuff on job applications), but I'm still better off than when I was strung out and blame nobody but myself.

That said, herb should be fully legal like it is in California. And today is three weeks since I smoked a cigarette!



Your story and mine aren't very different with the exception of the drug of choice.

In my late 20's i swear i attended a funeral a month for about a year and a half, either friends or acquaintances who didn't choose to quit using died. It still happens to this day, i just recently attended a funeral for someone that i was the first person to introduce him into the drug scene, i am still having guilt complexes about it.

I was always a functional addict and alcoholic. Drug tests in the day were a joke and could be beaten rather easily. I knew better than everyone that told me i was killing myself. I am suffering now with the affects of my drug and alcohol usage and what it has done to my body.

I am also not perfect. I used drugs as a crutch to avoid reality. When i get in certain moods, the desire to avoid reality becomes greatly apparent and my addictions start screaming.

I blew close to five years of sobriety and cleanliness about two months ago. I don't blame anyone but myself. You don't ever stop being an addict when you know what the drugs are capable of doing, you just learn to cope and deal with your desires and sometimes you fail. I, like you, know damn well i am a better person than i am when i am high, but, control is relative.

I also know people with weed addictions. It's not addictive in the same way narcotics are, it's more of a psychological addiction, but it's addiction none the less.

I hate seeing lives ruined because of drugs, especially with possession charges carrying the weight they do. We are not a nation that is currently trying to help an addict as much as we are a nation punishing addicts. I still don't understand why <insert drug> users are tossed into a prison system that does nothing to help them, while we let alcoholics just be alcoholics all day long. It's a double standard.

Like i said, i don't have the answers to any of the War on Drug questions, i know that complete legalization scares me personally, but i am also not close minded to the idea, i am just weary of it.

DevilsReject

DevilsReject

Cleveland, OH
February 2007

JUL 30, 2009 03:24 PM

i am not trying to be a prick, please don't take this that way, i am just trying to convey my ideas to you, and it may get rather difficult for me to do that.

Gringo said:
I am still assuming by the way that none of these drugs would be sold at say a convenience store but rather at pharmacies. An addict would still have to make a special trip for that. And using arguments (including Devils Reject's post) in regards to availability - I'm not sure how having these products in a retail environment is much different than a heroin addict being able to pick up a cell phone and dial one or two numbers and meeting someone on the street or whatever within a minute.



The legalization and taxation standpoint is a grand idea. the money spent on drugs alone would probably pull the nation out of the slump we are in. It could go to helping communities, addiction centers, rehab centers and all the other centers so that actual addicts could get they help they need rather than being tossed into an 8x10 prison cell, where they will unassumingly be opened up to another spectrum of crime.

We're mixing people that are at a point in their life that are very open to anyone that will give them attention and respect, to people that are willing to give them the wrong type of attention and respect.

In all reality, i know right now i could make a phone call and meet someone to get my drug of choice (and perhaps some of not my choice) within minutes. Here is what is stopping me. First and foremost, my daughter. Secondly i know who i am and i know i can't live like that, thirdly, i don't want to have to travel into an area that i am not fond of and don't trust, to meet someone i am not fond of and don't trust, all while being completely paranoid that my freedom may be revoked from me at any given moment.

The game changes once you take that third one away. I would stay clean and sober for the first two, but without the third, knowing that my freedom could be revoked and i would have to suffer the consequences of my own actions, it makes it less....scary? if that's a good word? Not so much just from the law standpoint, but when i was meeting with dealers, we weren't really at the Ritz Carlton sipping on martinis. There was a danger in just going into the neighborhood where i had to get it from a person that in all reality couldn't and shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't realize it as much in my youth (and my twenties) as i do now. I was traveling into some bad ass areas and dealing with some bad ass people to get this stuff.

If you remove that aspect of it, i am not saying that i will go back to old habits, it's just one less thing that i would withhold me from following through with my tendencies.

I wasn't addressing the immediate needs of an addict in my post. I guess I was talking more long-term benefits of the legalization because I was thinking from a retail perspective.



I can't argue this. The retail and taxation aspect of it would be phenomenal. If i had all the money i spent on drugs and alcohol, i would be typing this from the Hampton's rather than from a suburb of Cleveland.

I was suggesting that once drugs were legal to produce for resale, the pharm companies would (at least I assume) be driven to come up with recreational drugs that would have less severe side effects and less addictive properties.



I don't know that i trust pharmaceutical companies that much. While regulated they are still based on capitalism. They want to earn a profit, which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong.

But those companies are releasing drugs that have some pretty severe side effects already. I was on oxycodone during my shoulder surgeries, the side effects weren't exactly pleasant.

I do believe that the FDA and other regulatory agencies would have to step in to make sure that everything is up to par. Look at the tobacco industry and what they did with the addictive materials in cigarettes. I am not saying it would be the same for sure, but profit is profit.

As far as addressing current addicts, as mentioned by you, legalizing drugs would mean treatment would be more readily available for addicts.



We should have that already. We've spent billions and billions of dollars on a failed drug war. Yet we continue to treat people that need help like criminals and force them into the prison system for something as simple as having too much pot.....this should change immediately, regardless if anything is legalized.

We're taking people that really could be turned around and forcing them into a system in which they have little to no chance of coming out any better than they were before entering. If not coming out worse than what they went in.

There also could be some sort of program where if an addict enters a treatment program, that they wear a wristband that would indicate they can't be sold to - or maybe some sort of "do not sell" designation on their own driver's license/ID.



We can't regulate alcohol. How many times did you buy beer when you were a minor? Hell i know of a few places that still to this day don't bother checking an ID. On top of that, i can't even get the state of Ohio to put my motorcycle endorsement or my organ donor label on my ID without trouble and furthermore, why should i have to share my private life with a state agency to get an identification that allows me to drive, when in reality it has nothing to do with me operating a vehicle?

I am pretty open about my addictions, but why should i be singled out and forced to wear a wristband? (I am assuming you mean in a club). Some addicts have severe problems with their demons coming to light. Not everyone wants to share the fact that they have had problems, a lot of them want to keep it private. Part of the reason i am so open about it is because i speak about it at a rehab center that i volunteer at. It doesn't bother me, i have done what i have done, judge me if you may, i don't care, i am who i am. However, not everyone wants to share their problems with the world.

Drugs being illegal creates a lot of problems, legalization is not the end-to-all of the problems. Legalization would end some problems but create new ones as well.

Look at tobacco for example. There is still a black market for tobacco. Tax increases on tobacco make the black market for it thrive. Legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate the illegal trade of drugs, hell the taxation of drugs may even make it thrive more. Dime bags don't exist anymore, imagine what happens when retail outlets want to make a profit, the federal government taxes it, the local government taxes, the county puts a tax and attaches a sin tax on it to build a stadium or something else and then Joe Dealer down the road can offer it illegally a fourth of the price.

What happens then? Do we still put the dealer and the buyer in prison?

I am not closed minded when it comes to the idea of legalization, i am just very weary of how it would be applied. On paper it looks great, but there are a whole swarm of problems that the actual application would produce.

Once again, i am not trying to be a douchebag, i am just trying convey my ideas to you, i hope you didn't take offense.

Toku666

Toku666

Columbus, OH
May 2004

JUL 30, 2009 03:40 PM

Thank you to all in recovery who are sharing so much with us.

trixxx

trixxx

I'm lost
January 2004

JUL 30, 2009 05:03 PM

This article and thread have been SO thought provoking, thanks for all who shared their stories.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

JUL 30, 2009 06:07 PM

DevilsReject said:
i am not trying to be a prick, please don't take this that way, i am just trying to convey my ideas to you, and it may get rather difficult for me to do that.

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Gringo said:
I am still assuming by the way that none of these drugs would be sold at say a convenience store but rather at pharmacies. An addict would still have to make a special trip for that. And using arguments (including Devils Reject's post) in regards to availability - I'm not sure how having these products in a retail environment is much different than a heroin addict being able to pick up a cell phone and dial one or two numbers and meeting someone on the street or whatever within a minute.



The legalization and taxation standpoint is a grand idea. the money spent on drugs alone would probably pull the nation out of the slump we are in. It could go to helping communities, addiction centers, rehab centers and all the other centers so that actual addicts could get they help they need rather than being tossed into an 8x10 prison cell, where they will unassumingly be opened up to another spectrum of crime.

We're mixing people that are at a point in their life that are very open to anyone that will give them attention and respect, to people that are willing to give them the wrong type of attention and respect.

In all reality, i know right now i could make a phone call and meet someone to get my drug of choice (and perhaps some of not my choice) within minutes. Here is what is stopping me. First and foremost, my daughter. Secondly i know who i am and i know i can't live like that, thirdly, i don't want to have to travel into an area that i am not fond of and don't trust, to meet someone i am not fond of and don't trust, all while being completely paranoid that my freedom may be revoked from me at any given moment.

The game changes once you take that third one away. I would stay clean and sober for the first two, but without the third, knowing that my freedom could be revoked and i would have to suffer the consequences of my own actions, it makes it less....scary? if that's a good word? Not so much just from the law standpoint, but when i was meeting with dealers, we weren't really at the Ritz Carlton sipping on martinis. There was a danger in just going into the neighborhood where i had to get it from a person that in all reality couldn't and shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't realize it as much in my youth (and my twenties) as i do now. I was traveling into some bad ass areas and dealing with some bad ass people to get this stuff.

If you remove that aspect of it, i am not saying that i will go back to old habits, it's just one less thing that i would withhold me from following through with my tendencies.

I wasn't addressing the immediate needs of an addict in my post. I guess I was talking more long-term benefits of the legalization because I was thinking from a retail perspective.



I can't argue this. The retail and taxation aspect of it would be phenomenal. If i had all the money i spent on drugs and alcohol, i would be typing this from the Hampton's rather than from a suburb of Cleveland.

I was suggesting that once drugs were legal to produce for resale, the pharm companies would (at least I assume) be driven to come up with recreational drugs that would have less severe side effects and less addictive properties.



I don't know that i trust pharmaceutical companies that much. While regulated they are still based on capitalism. They want to earn a profit, which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong.

But those companies are releasing drugs that have some pretty severe side effects already. I was on oxycodone during my shoulder surgeries, the side effects weren't exactly pleasant.

I do believe that the FDA and other regulatory agencies would have to step in to make sure that everything is up to par. Look at the tobacco industry and what they did with the addictive materials in cigarettes. I am not saying it would be the same for sure, but profit is profit.

As far as addressing current addicts, as mentioned by you, legalizing drugs would mean treatment would be more readily available for addicts.



We should have that already. We've spent billions and billions of dollars on a failed drug war. Yet we continue to treat people that need help like criminals and force them into the prison system for something as simple as having too much pot.....this should change immediately, regardless if anything is legalized.

We're taking people that really could be turned around and forcing them into a system in which they have little to no chance of coming out any better than they were before entering. If not coming out worse than what they went in.

There also could be some sort of program where if an addict enters a treatment program, that they wear a wristband that would indicate they can't be sold to - or maybe some sort of "do not sell" designation on their own driver's license/ID.



We can't regulate alcohol. How many times did you buy beer when you were a minor? Hell i know of a few places that still to this day don't bother checking an ID. On top of that, i can't even get the state of Ohio to put my motorcycle endorsement or my organ donor label on my ID without trouble and furthermore, why should i have to share my private life with a state agency to get an identification that allows me to drive, when in reality it has nothing to do with me operating a vehicle?

I am pretty open about my addictions, but why should i be singled out and forced to wear a wristband? (I am assuming you mean in a club). Some addicts have severe problems with their demons coming to light. Not everyone wants to share the fact that they have had problems, a lot of them want to keep it private. Part of the reason i am so open about it is because i speak about it at a rehab center that i volunteer at. It doesn't bother me, i have done what i have done, judge me if you may, i don't care, i am who i am. However, not everyone wants to share their problems with the world.

Drugs being illegal creates a lot of problems, legalization is not the end-to-all of the problems. Legalization would end some problems but create new ones as well.

Look at tobacco for example. There is still a black market for tobacco. Tax increases on tobacco make the black market for it thrive. Legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate the illegal trade of drugs, hell the taxation of drugs may even make it thrive more. Dime bags don't exist anymore, imagine what happens when retail outlets want to make a profit, the federal government taxes it, the local government taxes, the county puts a tax and attaches a sin tax on it to build a stadium or something else and then Joe Dealer down the road can offer it illegally a fourth of the price.

What happens then? Do we still put the dealer and the buyer in prison?

I am not closed minded when it comes to the idea of legalization, i am just very weary of how it would be applied. On paper it looks great, but there are a whole swarm of problems that the actual application would produce.

Once again, i am not trying to be a douchebag, i am just trying convey my ideas to you, i hope you didn't take offense.



Thanks for the consideration of the disclosing how you may come across. I tend to disclose things like that myself when I feel my words and tone might be misconstrued but honestly, I never take offense to anyone sharing their view - I only take offense to those who make personal attacks or use mockery to make a point.

Let me first say that I do not always think I am right. My views and opinions are always open to change and I tend to need those with differing opinions and views to challenge me before they can change.

I have limited exposure to people who do heroin. I have only known two; one of which is an addict. She has been clean for 2 years now and doesn't seem to me to be struggling with the addiction. I know she has told me the first year was absolute hell for her but I have only known her for about 6 months. She does other things to get high now (mostly pot and MDMA) and doesn't seem to display any addictive behavior that I am aware of.

I do not know what someone goes through when they are at their toughest point of withdrawal or recovery...and reading your post made me even more aware of it. It even got me to slightly change/amend my thinking on legalization and this is kind of where I am at.

First, I am going to copy and paste some drug research information that was done for the BBC show Horizon which was made in 2007 and aired in 2008.. They did a new documentary on drugs and didn't use any existing stereotypes or biases when conducting the research. They said that most of the drugs need to be reclassified and I totally agree.

The research companies from the documentary are credited as: Lifeline, Brisol University Psychopharmacology Dept, The Beckley Foundation, British Medical Association, Institute of Psychiatry.

The drugs listed from most harmful to least were:

01 Heroin "Brown, Skag, Gear, Smack"
02 Cocaine "Coke, Base, Charlie, etc"
03 Barbituarates "Pink Ladies, Red Devils"
04 Methadone "The Precious, Slime, Green"
05 Alcohol
06 Ketamine "Special K, Vitamin K"
07 Benzodiazepine "Benzos, Downers"
08 Amphetamine "Speed, Whizz, Dexies, Billys"
09 Tobacco
10 Buprenorphine "Subbies, Temmies"
11 Cannabis "Dope, pot, etc"
12 Solvents "Paint, etc" (inhale)
13 4MTA "Flatliner, Golden Eagle"
14 LSD "Lucy, Trips, Paper Mushrooms, Acid, etc."
15 Methylphenidate "Vitamin R" (Class B)
16 Anabolic Steroids (class C)
17 GHB
18 MDMA (Ecstasy, X, E)
19 Alkyl Nitrite (Poppers) [Legal]
20 Khat [Legal]

What I didn't see on this list was methamphetamine but this was a UK documentary about the drugs that are most common in the UK I believe. Kind of like how I had no fucking clue what Khat is but learned it is a root that people chew on to get high.

I posted information on this documentary in the Chemical Halo group a while back. Another person commented and said it was now available on YouTube. I would really recommend everyone taking a look at it.

Man, I started typing and then it didn't make sense. I was going to say have a special classification for heroin and meth where they can only be done in limited quantities or whatever but I'm still not sure what the answer is.

In my earlier post, I was thinking that I don't see the fairness of making alcohol unavailable as a drug because alcoholics would have a tendency to be tempted and was thinking the same would kind of apply to heroin...but I think that is part of the problem with the limited amount of education - I don't think any of us have a fucking clue about that addiction unless they are an actual addict.

I know this may sound like I am avoiding the issue (I'm not) but I guess I am more in favor of legalizing all drugs EXCEPT heroin. I just don't know what to think or to do about that one.

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUL 30, 2009 06:45 PM

Gringo said:

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.



I would like to believe that, but a quick glance at the drugs that -are- legal (prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco) doesn't seem to show any significant moves by those companies to make their products less addictive or (once FDA approved) safer. I type up side effect lists for medications used to treat mental illness all the time, and if I were the one confronted with the possibility of going on one of those medications, I would be running for the hills. Scary shit.

Even so, a store-bought, legal dose of any given drug should at least be an established formula without random and potentially hugely dangerous additives.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

JUL 30, 2009 07:05 PM

malkav11 said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Gringo said:

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.


I would like to believe that, but a quick glance at the drugs that -are- legal (prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco) doesn't seem to show any significant moves by those companies to make their products less addictive or (once FDA approved) safer. I type up side effect lists for medications used to treat mental illness all the time, and if I were the one confronted with the possibility of going on one of those medications, I would be running for the hills. Scary shit.

Well, I think that with the exception of certain drugs used to treat pain, I don't think that pharm companies manufacture prescription drugs to get HIGH so much as they manufacture them to treat things. Getting high is just what many people do when "abusing" them.

If recreational drugs were to be legalized, then I really do think the pharm companies would take a very big interest in capitalizing on it. I think it's possible they would take existing drugs with relatively low side effects and tweak (no pun intended) them into new designer drugs. 2c-b and 2c-i is one example that comes to mind.

Even so, a store-bought, legal dose of any given drug should at least be an established formula without random and potentially hugely dangerous additives.

I hadn't given much attention to that but I kind of assume each drug would have a recommended dosage. Of course, that might be meaningless because let's face it - many of us would double, triple, or quadruple it! Ha...sorry, in one of those moods.

When is the last time someone went to a bar with the intentions of getting drunk with their friends and only drank enough to blow a BAC reading that was under the limit? Just saying that .08 doesn't even feel like much of anything.

I don't mean that to be a point to argue on - just saying that when people are in the mindset to get fucked up - they get fucked up. smile

malkav11

malkav11

Saint Paul, MN
July 2003

JUL 30, 2009 09:55 PM

Gringo said:

malkav11 said:

SPOILERS! (Click to view)

Gringo said:

DevilsReject said:
I don't have an educated answer on how to tell people to deal with the War on Drugs. I know it's a failure economically and strategically, but like i said, the idea that i could just drive to the store and pick up a drug that could potentially ruin my life again really does scare me. It takes a lot of effort on my part just to stay sober, i am not sure what would happen with the temptation of legalization.


I think there is a likelihood that if drugs were legal, that pharmaceutical companies would compete to produce recreational drugs that were safer.

I imagine there would be synthetic heroin products developed that had either no or very low addictive properties and came in tablet form or chewables.

I believe that meth and other physically destructive drugs would eventually be a thing of the past.


I would like to believe that, but a quick glance at the drugs that -are- legal (prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco) doesn't seem to show any significant moves by those companies to make their products less addictive or (once FDA approved) safer. I type up side effect lists for medications used to treat mental illness all the time, and if I were the one confronted with the possibility of going on one of those medications, I would be running for the hills. Scary shit.

Well, I think that with the exception of certain drugs used to treat pain, I don't think that pharm companies manufacture prescription drugs to get HIGH so much as they manufacture them to treat things. Getting high is just what many people do when "abusing" them.

If recreational drugs were to be legalized, then I really do think the pharm companies would take a very big interest in capitalizing on it. I think it's possible they would take existing drugs with relatively low side effects and tweak (no pun intended) them into new designer drugs. 2c-b and 2c-i is one example that comes to mind.


Well, like I say - they haven't really shown any interest in fixing alcohol or tobacco so they're not dangerous, as far as I know. I have no doubt that they'd be all over designing new recreational drugs, potentially ones with relatively little danger involved, but I don't see them spending much time trying to, e.g., make cocaine safer. And given that there are plenty of designer drugs already and people still use heroin and cocaine and such, I'd imagine they wouldn't go away.

Even so, a store-bought, legal dose of any given drug should at least be an established formula without random and potentially hugely dangerous additives.

I hadn't given much attention to that but I kind of assume each drug would have a recommended dosage. Of course, that might be meaningless because let's face it - many of us would double, triple, or quadruple it! Ha...sorry, in one of those moods.

When is the last time someone went to a bar with the intentions of getting drunk with their friends and only drank enough to blow a BAC reading that was under the limit? Just saying that .08 doesn't even feel like much of anything.

I don't mean that to be a point to argue on - just saying that when people are in the mindset to get fucked up - they get fucked up. smile


I just meant that one of the big safety issues with illegal drugs at the moment is that you don't know what you're getting. Legalizing them and subjecting them to the big company process would undoubtedly make them safer in at least that regard.

Gringo

Gringo

Spokane, WA
May 2006

JUL 31, 2009 12:05 AM

Mal, one thing: tobacco companies process cigarettes so they would be the ones to manufacture less-harmful tobacco products. Same with the companies who distill and/or manufacture alcohol.

The pharm companies (as far as I know) wouldn't be responsible for those tasks...and could only be responsible for the drugs they manufacture.

Cocaine is a different story...it's mainly imported from South America and Cuba..again, not sure how they would be motivated to make that any safer because for the most part - nature makes it. It's still processed but not sure what could be done. But the real thing is...it's illegal so what does it matter to those who process it whether it's safer or not?

Another thing that I was thinking was that IF drugs were legalized - our prison system would really be freed up. Not sure what the states and federal government would do with all of that surplus money. Oh wait, they could totally throw a cocaine party in D.C.!

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